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Theme Changer

 Topic: The Ex-Muslim label

 (Read 5680 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Ex-Muslim label
     OP - April 10, 2011, 11:49 PM

    How many here identify as an ex-muslim?

    I thought about this after doing SuzanneB's Ex-muslim survey.

    It's been more than a year since I left Islam and I'm starting to feel that I don't even want to call myself an ex-muslim. Because it's an identity that includes Islam (by dissociation). Being an atheist is not really a label either, I am proud of it because I choose it. Leaving Islam was a choice as well, but since I never had a choice whether I wanted to be a Muslim in first place it doesn't really feel as solid a choice as atheism. To me atheism is just an aspect of personality. It doesn't define me. I don't really feel like part of an Atheist community but I appreciate that there is one. And I still enjoy participating in it.

    I'm slightly envious of people who don't have to call themselves ex-Christian or whatever. They just are. I think of ex-communicated Scientologists. How they mark their past and the new life with an apostate identity. It's remarkable if you think about it. A religion or cult having that kind of impact on your life - that you choose to mention it even by disassociation for as long as you live.

    I call myself an ex-muslim on this forum because I unite with people that share similar experiences. But I don't want to call myself an ex-muslim in real life. I wouldn't mind talking about my religious past but the muslim identity politics both from muslims and non-muslims have reached such a level that you'll meet people that'll say "how can you not be a muslim" even after you tell them you're an atheist. Their point is you grew up muslim, or have muslim parents, or you are culturally muslim.  

    The only issue is that the term Ex-Muslim hasn't (yet) reached the mainstream, there is no such term, nothing tangible that people know the weight and shape of. So the term itself would help highlight the problems apostates have. I appreciate this aspect of it.

    But if it was up to me I would burn every bridge I had to Islam and the Muslim community. Note, not the community in a cultural sense but only in a religious sense. I have zero connection to Islam. It's not that I'm ashamed of my past it's just that I can simply not stand it anymore. I feel I never had a chance to explore my own personality as a Muslim. To develop. It was always hampered one way or another by Islam. I don't feel shackled now by my ex-muslim label but I would feel a whole lot freer dropping it.  

    The only problem is my name and my looks. There will always be this assumption that I'm somehow Muslim. It really annoys me now Grin

    I'd change my name but I'd feel like I'm selling out and removing a part of my identity.

    But in any case I'm getting closer to shedding the last remains of my past religious identity. There will be a day where I won't even consider myself an ex-muslim. I mean I will in theory still be an ex-muslim since apostasy is an objective reality in Islam (seeing how there is a term for it and a punishment) but in practical terms the label is of no use.

    What are your thoughts? Do you personally identify as an ex-muslim? What does it mean to you?
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #1 - April 10, 2011, 11:52 PM

    Well I don't walk around with a sticky note saying 'atheist' or 'ex-muslim', but I am both of those. Neither I feel are my primary identity, but when needs must I do identify myself as that/them.
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #2 - April 10, 2011, 11:54 PM

    The only problem is my name and my looks. There will always be this assumption that I'm somehow Muslim. It really annoys me now Grin


    Of course you don't look muslim , you look like Drake silly ! Cheesy

    "its fashionable to be an ex Muslim these days"
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #3 - April 10, 2011, 11:55 PM

     Cheesy
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #4 - April 11, 2011, 12:10 AM

    I don't think I've ever referred to myself as an ex-muslim outside of this site. But as ps says above, when needs must I probably will adopt the label.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #5 - April 11, 2011, 12:12 AM

    How many here identify as an ex-muslim?

    The only problem is my name and my looks. There will always be this assumption that I'm somehow Muslim. It really annoys me now Grin

    I'd change my name but I'd feel like I'm selling out and removing a part of my identity.


    I rarely use the ex-muslim label outside of this forum, if someone assumes I'm muslim (happens quite a lot, usually by muslims) then I let them make that wrong assumption. I'd like to think of myself as a cultural muslim. Although I'm not named after some Islamic figure, my name is an arab name so I have the same 'problem' but I wouldn't change my name because it is part of who I am.
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #6 - April 11, 2011, 12:12 AM

    I honestly forgot I was an ex-muslim until i came back to the forum . I still identify myself as a muslim half of the time  .I will always have a huge connection with Islam it won't wither away that easily . But I'm proud to call myself an ex-muslim , it is a huge accomplishment to me , so I'm happy to call myself one .(in private of course)

    "its fashionable to be an ex Muslim these days"
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #7 - April 11, 2011, 12:47 AM

    I identify myself with many things. Male, humanist, rationalist, asian, british, stone roses lover, tennis player etc.  None of these are my exclusive identity.  One of the many things is an an ex-theist /ex-muslim.  We are all multi-faceted with so many layers, and together they all weave our identities.

    So yes I am an ex-muslim amongst many other things.  I have no problem with that.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #8 - April 11, 2011, 12:50 AM

    I can only really comment on the "Ex-Muslim" label in the context of its effect on me, as a non-Muslim/non-Ex-Muslim, and have done so before here (http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=14332.msg393967#msg393967). The relevant bit of that post:

    ...the dissenting voices of Ex-Muslims are incredibly powerful and could be hugely influential in shaping public debate. I understand that many of you are uncomfortable with the term "Ex-Muslim" as a self-descriptor, and I understand why, but as an 'outsider' I have to tell you that it really does hit something home. It unavoidably breaks the connections between the Islamic faith and race, culture, etc. in the minds of non-Muslims. Moreover, the realisation that a Muslim is only one thought away from being an ex-Muslim provides a clear distinction in peoples minds between Islam, the philosophy/ideology/political system, and Muslims, the people. These distinctions leave the religion laid bare as a viable target for criticism, without the fear of accusations of racism, narrow-mindedness, bullying, etc....

  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #9 - April 11, 2011, 01:15 AM

    If i could choose, i wouldn't label myself at all! fuck labels, but seeing as i have no strength in changing the world's worst habit of labelling, i guess i would choose to be an atheist rather than an ex muslim, for exactly the same reason as BD, my life has always been dominated by islam, fuck it don't even deserve capitalization, i've had enough of muslims and islam, that i just don't want to be associated with them or be disassociated with them anymore.  mysmilie_977
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #10 - April 11, 2011, 01:30 AM

    I'd rather embrace my past and try to learn from it than pretend that it never happened. What you chose or what was imposed on you doesn't determine the reality. No one can choose what to believe anyway. None of it has to be declared in public though. I can count people outside the forum on one hand who think I'm an Ex-muslim. A few more may still hope I'm a Muslim and a few may suspect that I'm a Muslim. To most I'm many things but an Ex-Muslim or a Muslim. I don't have an Arabic name and no matter how much this makes me want to throw up, I can say that people don't assume I'm a Muslim from my looks.

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #11 - April 11, 2011, 01:41 AM

    .
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #12 - April 11, 2011, 01:55 AM

    I identify myself with many things. Male, humanist, rationalist, asian, british, stone roses lover, tennis player etc.  None of these are my exclusive identity.  One of the many things is an an ex-theist /ex-muslim.  We are all multi-faceted with so many layers, and together they all weave our identities.

    So yes I am an ex-muslim amongst many other things.  I have no problem with that.

    this
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #13 - April 11, 2011, 02:26 AM

    people don't assume I'm a Muslim from my looks.

    your new nickname: white boy
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #14 - April 11, 2011, 02:35 AM

    I can understand why most people would be uneasy about changing their name - it's due to loss aversion: people don't like to give up what they already own. For those bold enough to overcome this inertia, a new name is like the start of a new legacy. All the different surnames had to originate somewhere, right? Rather than viewing it as a loss, we could consider ourselves pioneers trying to start afresh. Just a thought.

    I really like this. It would be cool if there was some sort of naming convention for ex muslims, so whenever you heard someone with a name like that, you'd know he/she is an ex muslim, like if you hear someone with an arabic name you can assume that he is/was a muslim..
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #15 - April 11, 2011, 03:12 AM

    I never thought of myself as an exmuslim till i joined this forum. And even then its on this site.

    before that while i stewed away without the comfort of this site i just focused on my beliefs and not on disbelief and beliefs i had discarded if that makes sense. Even now, I rarely think about Islam and it has had a small impact on my personal growth and psychee. Its only impact is that those around me who still do believe in it have and still attempt to hold me back from certain physical experiences. In my mind I have always maintained a sense of distance from the hypnotism of Islam, though i didnt always view that as a positive thing. I felt guilty for it in fact.

    In short, I don't care about religious labels or beliefs as much as i did say this time last year. I only refer to myself as an exmuslim for the simplicity of conversing with y'all on this forum. I've got too much else on my mind to think about religion much at this point in my life. But i know that sometime in my life someday again i will find it interesting.


    I didn't care about Islam while i was  muslim and i guess that lack of interest carried over into apostacy. I Just haven't been able to give a fuck. It am who i am. leaving islam didn't feel like i left anything really.  Huh?

    It just made me stop fantasizing about living life and instead make plans to live it the way i wanted. Smiley

    So yeah, I dunno why I still linger here. I've moved on , and come back Tongue

    *shrug*



    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #16 - April 11, 2011, 03:44 AM

     bunny

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #17 - April 11, 2011, 03:55 AM

    Dude, you've said racial stuff to me on more than one occasion, I didn't complain, don't act like I've somehow hurt your feelings by a joke when you've said worse things to me
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #18 - April 11, 2011, 04:07 AM

    See here


    Don't be silly ALM. Just keep posting and ignore him. Smiley
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #19 - April 11, 2011, 09:04 AM


    I really don't see it that way. As far as I'm concerned, your identity is whatever you make it. I like to think it's malleable, rather than something simply thrust upon you at birth.

    When you left Islam, you didn't lose a part of your identity - you simply changed it in order to represent yourself more accurately. A name change would have the same effect.

    I can understand why most people would be uneasy about changing their name - it's due to loss aversion: people don't like to give up what they already own. For those bold enough to overcome this inertia, a new name is like the start of a new legacy. All the different surnames had to originate somewhere, right? Rather than viewing it as a loss, we could consider ourselves pioneers trying to start afresh. Just a thought.


    And a good one, thanks. 

    My social psychology teacher changed her name for personal reasons later in life too, and recently I have been more than toying with the idea of changing mine and my childrens, all together.  Not only am I always asked if I am a muslim, but so are my children, and although they feel no confusion to explain that they are moroccan but not muslim, one day this could change.

    When it comes to the ex muslim identity/label, that doesn;t bother me.  For awhile I was extremely proud to carry that label and that torch to where it needed to go. 

    Of the 4 muslim women in my college, all of them know I am an ex muslim.  How could they not when I handed in an essay on "has the quran changed over time" and I gleefully twiddled my thumbs as they went in a rage?  Grin

    Am I hated by them for this label?  fuck yeah I am, but I don;t care.  Thanks to identifying myself as an exmuslim, the apostasy issue was something they were forced to deal with, and debate in a psychology lesson, and get thorougly trounced by the class. Not only that, but many people have come up to me to ask about this forum, the work we do, and to tell me about someone they know, who could do with the support.
    This means that there is a use in my label, it helps other people and as long as it helps other people then I am proud to hold on to the label.

    Sometimes it takes some people, being willing to stand there with a label that many others detest, in order to remove the stigma from that label.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #20 - April 11, 2011, 09:24 AM

    I can only really comment on the "Ex-Muslim" label in the context of its effect on me, as a non-Muslim/non-Ex-Muslim, and have done so before here (http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=14332.msg393967#msg393967). The relevant bit of that post:
    ...the dissenting voices of Ex-Muslims are incredibly powerful and could be hugely influential in shaping public debate. I understand that many of you are uncomfortable with the term "Ex-Muslim" as a self-descriptor, and I understand why, but as an 'outsider' I have to tell you that it really does hit something home. It unavoidably breaks the connections between the Islamic faith and race, culture, etc. in the minds of non-Muslims. Moreover, the realisation that a Muslim is only one thought away from being an ex-Muslim provides a clear distinction in peoples minds between Islam, the philosophy/ideology/political system, and Muslims, the people. These distinctions leave the religion laid bare as a viable target for criticism, without the fear of accusations of racism, narrow-mindedness, bullying, etc....


    I'm with Chris on this one. I think it's a powerful label when it comes to discussing the matter. However, I can understand it’s not something you walk around declaring all day, it’s  just a useful mental bridge. I know this is a different matter, but thinking of a former relationship, you call yourself that person’s  ‘ex’ in that context. This is usually not a defining feature of who you are either, but when discussing this person it does effectively describe your relationship to him/her. It’s over. Same with Islam, only it is a more prominent feature in your life often, therefore will be discussed more, and in that context the label ex-Muslim comes up. It describes your relationship effectively and makes it clear to thirds how you feel. But can I imagine you’d rarely talk about yourself as an ex-Muslim in contexts where that relationship doesn’t play a part.
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #21 - April 11, 2011, 11:00 AM

    I wouldn't mind talking about my religious past but the muslim identity politics both from muslims and non-muslims have reached such a level that you'll meet people that'll say "how can you not be a muslim" even after you tell them you're an atheist. Their point is you grew up muslim, or have muslim parents, or you are culturally muslim.

    Have you had such experience IRL?

    Of the 4 muslim women in my college, all of them know I am an ex muslim.  How could they not when I handed in an essay on "has the quran changed over time" and I gleefully twiddled my thumbs as they went in a rage?  Grin

    Am I hated by them for this label?  fuck yeah I am, but I don;t care.  Thanks to identifying myself as an exmuslim, the apostasy issue was something they were forced to deal with, and debate in a psychology lesson, and get thorougly trounced by the class. Not only that, but many people have come up to me to ask about this forum, the work we do, and to tell me about someone they know, who could do with the support.

    Care to share a bit more about your essay here? What was your argument? How violent was the reaction to it?
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #22 - April 11, 2011, 11:07 AM

    Yes Kenan I have. I told him he was a twat and exlpained why. He stfu pretty quick.
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #23 - April 11, 2011, 11:13 AM

    Excellent. Don't be shy when it comes to challenging simplistic identity labels others might try and impose onto you. You are who you are; nobody should try and define your identity but yourself.
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #24 - April 11, 2011, 12:05 PM

    Depends who asks. The only people in my life to whom the label 'Ex-Muslim' is a big deal are the people who need it shoved in their face.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #25 - April 11, 2011, 12:10 PM

    I'd change my name but I'd feel like I'm selling out and removing a part of my identity.


    I'm seriously considering of doing that.
    I would still introduce myself to people with my nickname (derived from my Arabic name), because it sounds pretty cool.
    But for official documents, contracts, etc... I would use my new name.
    Simply to not be associated with my Arabic culture and Islam any more.
    My girlfriend's father still thinks I'll become a radical Muslim in 20 years or so, even though he knows I'm an atheist now.
    New name might just avoid me some shit I don't have to bear you know.

    EDIT: One more thing, I realise my children will carry my new surname, but that's a good thing I think. I'm now just the first step to total integration.

    <dust>: i love tea!!!
    <dust>: milky tea
    <three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
    <dust>: mm
    <three>: it's definitely not called neck
    <dust>: lol
    <three>: what's the word i'm looking for
    <dust>: throat
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #26 - April 11, 2011, 12:51 PM

    You dont need to change or aglo-saxonise your name just to be "Totally" integrated. That is Sheer non-sense.

    Let me remind you that nobody was born a Muslim and neither has any culture been born from Islam.

    Everyone was once a Pagan or another faith.

    I got a Hebrew first name and a Turkish sure name, I would never change it just to impress a father in law who considers you to be a radical muslim in the next 20 years, if he cant accept you for who you are then sod him, he is ignorant and a complete twat!

  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #27 - April 11, 2011, 12:53 PM

    pashtun you have a hebrew first name?  lipsrsealed.. I suspect a closet jew...
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #28 - April 11, 2011, 12:59 PM

    My first name is quite popular in israel, there is even a defence minister named same as me. lol! No No No Iam no way a Closet Jew, even Muslims have same name as me.

    Richard Dawkin(Pbuh) is my messenger of the Holy God of Logic and Rationality, Rationalizer.
  • Re: The Ex-Muslim label
     Reply #29 - April 11, 2011, 01:02 PM

    I can definitely empathise with this, BD. Islam shaped me and the way I saw everything until I was 24 and if I had left it any longer I would have probably stayed Muslim my whole life. I still view life through the Islamic lens sometimes and catch myself doing it and actually get quite angry at myself.

    I don't want to get all melodramatic, but I am still trying to "fix" my way of thinking from the doublethink one Islam imposed on me, it is taking me longer than I expected and all the while people my age are moving on with their lives, doing well, living. I will always refer to myself as ex-Muslim when the situaton demands it, because mainstream Islam is not like mainstream Christianity. It is a cult which sees apostates as sub-human and for that reason when the time comes I too will wear this label proudly, though I never want to define myself this way.

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