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 Topic: To be (an atheist) or not to be?

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  • To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     OP - April 26, 2011, 02:26 PM
    Booyakasha
     
    Stuff, things and words.
    Started from the bottom, now I'm here
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  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #1 - April 26, 2011, 02:29 PM
    Booyakasha

    (I'll read the rest when I have an hour later)
    Hi
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #2 - April 26, 2011, 02:53 PM
    No problemoo  Smiley
    I realise it's insanely long lololol
    Started from the bottom, now I'm here
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  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #3 - April 26, 2011, 02:54 PM
    Wow. It didn't quite take an hour to read. Well worth the time, though.

    I'm not an ex-Muslim, so I can only offer you one, perhaps trivial, piece of advice. Find places where your dorm-mates don't go - parks, libraries, cafés, pubs (they serve orange juice if booze is not your thing), different parts of London - and take off your hijab. Put it on again only when you go back home.

    Think of yourself as an office worker putting on your tie as you approach the office and stripping it off the monent you leave.

    I live in London too; it's a place where you can hide even without having anything to hide.


    Ps. Good luck.
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #4 - April 26, 2011, 02:54 PM
    I'm sneaking peaks at this intro at work and I’m now about a third of the way through. I have to say, it is very well written and very captivating. Some very funny bits in there also. Can’t believe you’re only 17… Afro
    Hi
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #5 - April 26, 2011, 02:57 PM
    Precocious. Very good English too.
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #6 - April 26, 2011, 03:08 PM
    Essays like this should be combined and published in one great book. Reading your story I could very much relate. I went through the same thing but you did it a little earlier so thumps up for you  dance  I am all for the honesty with one's parents but what you did was wrong. Some parents are not to be trusted especially if they were Muslims. You shouldn't have told your mom anything. Muslims tend to switch off their brains when talking about Muhammad, Allah or Islam in general so she wasn't likely to understand to begin with. AND NO! Don't go on with your decision, go with her and discuss the things with the Muslim scholars, ask a lot of questions as if you are really interested and haven't made your mind up yet. Then tell her that you're totally convinced now and that Islam is the best choice because 1. As you said, you don't want to harm your brothers, 2. Your parents might disown you, 3. IT IS POINTLESS! Finish your school and start working and depending on yourself, you can have your own house and you wouldn't even need them. THEN you can tell them about your decision to abandon Islam, they will have 2 choices either to accept it or lose you. I told my mother, and she was pretty open-minded about it, sad but tolerant. My dad doesn't know for sure but he doubts it and because of our arguments about religion and politics, he disowned me last year (like I care!).   bunny

    All I am saying is, go along with them. Yes Islam is beautiful, yes Muhammad is the prophet of peace. I am not saying it is going to be easy. I am going through the same thing in my society. No one knows I left Islam, I can't wear make up in Ramadan so yes you and me will be leading a double life but you know sometimes it is fun, talk about how perfect Islam is and then get into my room draw a picture of Muhammad, spit on the Quran and stick it up my stuffed bear's ass. I am leaving my country in 3 years to continue further studies in America so all I can do is wait, meantime reading and laughing at Islam's idiocy. For your own safety, education and future, do NOT go further with this, YET. When you stand on solid ground and have enough money to support yourself you can ride the rough waves on your family's desires.

    Again, people like you make me so proud. It is nice to know that regardless of the retarded backward environments we come from, we can still have some sense in our brains. Keep on reading about science and politics and lead a very happy life, don't get down. Life is short so be happy!!   Afro
    Man created God in his image : intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent.
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #7 - April 26, 2011, 03:51 PM
    real hip-hop? name some.(<3 hip-hop elitism).

    welcome btw, if you look at the blog section of the forums you'll see that much of the stories you see are very similar in their ending - we can't tell our families because they'll hate us etc etc etc. you're not alone.
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #8 - April 26, 2011, 04:00 PM
    Where can I start? Firstly a big  far away hug   . Whilst reading your blog it is very hard not to emphasise with what you are going through.

    Thank you so much for sharing your story. Many things you say remind me of the turmoil and conflict that I went through at your age. And I am sure that many others on this forum will be able to relate also.

    Your intelligence exceeds mine. As does the fight you have inside you. For these reasons, I am not going to offer you any advice (you’ve received some good advice already and hopefully others will add to this). I just want to say thank you for taking the time to share your story. I went through a range of emotions whilst reading your intro; this was akin to the emotions I feel whenever I get lost in a good book or movie… You have a lot to say and I really hope you stick around for a while.

    Btw, loved the nice sprinkling of humour. Best bit for me:

    Anyway, women must wear a curtain so that over-horny men don't jizz in their pants because we all know how hard it is to clean that shit and God doesn't want wives to have to deal with that when they wash their husband's underwear. Isn't God merciful? Plus they have more important things to do like kneel in obedience to their husband, give him sex whenever he asks, make him sandwiches and remain in the kitchen at all times
    Hi
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #9 - April 26, 2011, 07:43 PM
    I apologise for the late reply.
    Thank you all so muchhh for taking the time out to read it and replyy.

    David and musivore, thanks a lot for the complimentsss, I'm glad you liked it. I will definitely stick around I love this forum and it's my only refuge really  Smiley

    hypexmuslim, thanks! I read your first post as well and you're an inspiration! hahahaha your post cheered me up but yeah I think you're right that's the best thing to do at this point after the huge brain fart I had that led to confession. Ahhhh it's so hard thoughh, I REFUSE to think that I'm beaten and that that's it, I should just conform, stand in line and stfu. You must be really patient.

    serrated_colon, hahaha YES real hip hop, to name just a few:
    wu-tang clan, mobb deep, the roots, NWA, run dmc, krs one, the lady of rage, ll cool j, kool g rap, big daddy cane, snoop dogg and bust rhymes (when they were younger though), tupac, slaughterhouse, eminem, immortal technique, lowkey, dumbfoundead, wax and herbal t, akala, eyedea and abilities, aesop rock, bus driver, hyperaptive, an0maly, liquid, logic, omar offendum, khaled M., jedi mind tricks, public enemy, nas, talib kweli, outkast, cypress hill, dead prez, vinnie paz, shadia mansour, mic righteous, alyssa marie, cunninglynguists, rhyme asylum, ramulations, raekwon, naughty by nature etc and of course how could I forget BANGS
    lol jk bangs is hopeless, he is the reason AIDS was transferred from chimps to humans  Tongue
    Actually the Wu-tang clan have a concert in London in Juneee I am so excitedddddd. I also lovee watching battle raps I can't get enough of Grind Time.

    Yes it's really sad, I'm glad I can talk to people like you guys who actually get it.



    Started from the bottom, now I'm here
    Started from the bottom, now my whole extended family's here

    JOIN THE CHAT
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #10 - April 26, 2011, 09:39 PM
    Not many people could make me sit through that much writing, so props to you.

    And here is your parrot.  parrot
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #11 - April 27, 2011, 02:45 AM
    Quote from: xxrb43 on April 26, 2011, 07:43 PM
    I apologise for the late reply.
    Thank you all so muchhh for taking the time out to read it and replyy.

    David and musivore, thanks a lot for the complimentsss, I'm glad you liked it. I will definitely stick around I love this forum and it's my only refuge really  Smiley

    hypexmuslim, thanks! I read your first post as well and you're an inspiration! hahahaha your post cheered me up but yeah I think you're right that's the best thing to do at this point after the huge brain fart I had that led to confession. Ahhhh it's so hard thoughh, I REFUSE to think that I'm beaten and that that's it, I should just conform, stand in line and stfu. You must be really patient.

    serrated_colon, hahaha YES real hip hop, to name just a few:
    wu-tang clan, mobb deep, the roots, NWA, run dmc, krs one, the lady of rage, ll cool j, kool g rap, big daddy cane, snoop dogg and bust rhymes (when they were younger though), tupac, slaughterhouse, eminem, immortal technique, lowkey, dumbfoundead, wax and herbal t, akala, eyedea and abilities, aesop rock, bus driver, hyperaptive, an0maly, liquid, logic, omar offendum, khaled M., jedi mind tricks, public enemy, nas, talib kweli, outkast, cypress hill, dead prez, vinnie paz, shadia mansour, mic righteous, alyssa marie, cunninglynguists, rhyme asylum, ramulations, raekwon, naughty by nature etc and of course how could I forget BANGS
    lol jk bangs is hopeless, he is the reason AIDS was transferred from chimps to humans  Tongue
    Actually the Wu-tang clan have a concert in London in Juneee I am so excitedddddd. I also lovee watching battle raps I can't get enough of Grind Time.

    Yes it's really sad, I'm glad I can talk to people like you guys who actually get it.






    i like you already
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #12 - April 27, 2011, 05:43 AM
    GODDAMN. Where to begin...

    First and foremost, Welcome (I have never given anyone a parrot, and yours is well deserved parrot)

    I would just like to say that I admire your selflessness, courage, passion, intelligence, humanity, and patience. Your consideration for your family is unsurpassed, although it is a shame that they could not return equal consideration for your beliefs. If I was in your position I wouldn't have handled the situation as well as you did (even if you messed it up with your mom, you still picked up the pieces) if I was you I probably would have been killed, and for that reason my advice would be useless. Your an inspiration to ex-Muslims everywhere.
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1402050406

    Add me on facebook, just send me a message with your COEM username.
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #13 - April 27, 2011, 09:02 AM
    You've made me twenty minutes late for work young lady. The little bit of optimism you've instilled more than makes up for it though Smiley. An incredible journey of thoughts and emotions for someone so young, and very well written. You're ahead of the game by quite some way. I'm not an ex-Muslim, and was never very fussed telling my christian family that I thought they were all being rather silly, but it sounds like the pressures involved are worlds apart.

    Quote
    I felt extremely selfish and stupid for having said all this to her


    I would like to ask you to not be so hard on yourself. Using your intellect, time and effort to find out the truth of your existence...that sounds nothing like stupidity to me. As for telling your family, well others here will have a much better first hand experience of this, some will have done so, others delay it or even put if off forever. No one can tell you what's best for you - only you know how the freedom of coming out and feeling of intellectual honesty will balance against the possible repercussions in terms of strained family relationships etc. Most importantly, do ask yourself if there are any reasons to fear for your physical safety. This may not be an issue for you, and I do not wish to be overly dramatic, but it is a question well worth considering. Until such a time that you can express yourself freely without consequences to your health, I think it best to bide your time, and do what you can to remove that threat from the equation. If you've moved out of the family home and are living on loans/student finance now, it may be that you have already achieved a large degree of independence.

    Your best interests aside(!), if we're suggesting factors to take into consideration, you might like to consider the implications for others. Every ex-Muslim who comes out makes the job that little bit easier for the tens of thousands who haven't made that step yet. In doing so, you are making an incredibly powerful personal and political statement. Many freethinkers in Islamic societies have a genuine and realistic expectation that coming out could result in, at best, a heavy restriction in their freedoms or, at worst, death. Coming out raises the profile of their struggle and, in the tiniest of steps, begins to normalise apostasy. I've also read from and spoken to quite a few ex-Muslims who believe that their coming out sewed the seeds of doubt in younger siblings, who eventually went on to apostasise too. Input from others here would be helpful; would you agree that having one ex-Muslim in the family can help to liberate others later on?

    You sound like a smart cookie. Don't rush your decisions, but have some confidence in yourself. Make sure, above all else, that you are safe, and if you do need anything come back here to ask.

    p.s. what are you studying at uni?
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #14 - April 27, 2011, 12:30 PM
    signwelcome
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #15 - April 27, 2011, 02:02 PM
    Prince Spinoza Lolol
    Finally got that parrot
    Thanks

    serrated_colon Smiley
    I checked your channel out and subscribed. Why have you stopped  uploading videos?

    Sherif mwhaha yess another parrot. Can I just ask why parrots are given to new members?
    lolol thankss you're too kind. Everyone is so nice hereee

    Hahah thanks a lot for the words of wisdom and encouragement chris. :$ Thankss, you guys are making me feel like GOD (figuratively speaking of course). I really like your picture btw.
    Yeah it's never gonna be the same for any 2 people, but I count myself lucky. At least my mum indulged in some type of discussion with me about it and didn't scream verses at me or decide to pull me out of university like I know has happened to other ex-muslims. I guess the most successful way to approach your parents depends on knowing as much as possible about your parents' mentality, character and reactions.
    Yesss I would definitely agree that having one ex-muslim liberate themselves makes it more realistic for others in the same situation to realise the same goal and might motivate others to question their faith. That's what I'm hoping will happen with my 2 younger brothers once I liberate myself, if they don't do it of their own accord first.
    Oh and I'm studying Human Genetics at UCL. This first year hasn't been all that interesting because it's just general stuff to do with Biological Sciences but the second year will hopefully concentrate more on human genetics WHOOOOOP.

    Thankss muddy
    Started from the bottom, now I'm here
    Started from the bottom, now my whole extended family's here

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  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #16 - April 27, 2011, 02:23 PM
    well i generally don't have time tbh, i had another channel which i had to take down but that's another story. i have a few more that are sitting on my computer but i'm uploading them when i go to university in september.
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #17 - April 27, 2011, 02:42 PM
    Ohh I see. What uni is it? and what course?
    Started from the bottom, now I'm here
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  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #18 - April 27, 2011, 02:43 PM
    queen mary, uni of london to study mathematics.
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #19 - April 27, 2011, 02:58 PM
    Noiceeeee
    Started from the bottom, now I'm here
    Started from the bottom, now my whole extended family's here

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  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #20 - April 27, 2011, 03:35 PM
    are you going to uni? if so, where and what are you studying? Wink
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #21 - April 27, 2011, 03:42 PM
    I have no idea what the significance of the parrot is, but i was given one and it seems to be a tradition on this forum.

    How do you like London btw? I intend to move to Europe after I go live in California for a couple of years when I get my degree. I've visited family in London, but that's not the same as living there.
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1402050406

    Add me on facebook, just send me a message with your COEM username.
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #22 - April 27, 2011, 05:35 PM
    serrated_colon Yes, this is my first year. I'm doing Human Genetics at UCL (University College London). The main course is actually Biological Sciences but I originally applied for Human Genetics. Are you going to live in halls? I applied really late and didn't get a place, I really wish I had applied earlier now :/

    Sherif I LOVE LONDONNNNN. It's such a metropolitan city and people are so nice and welcoming. Doesn't make you feel like a foreigner AT ALL and I personally don't feel any of the discrimination/racism that I experienced in other cities/countries. There's loads of stuff to do as well. So yeah, loveee it here.
    Ahhh California <3. I want to live in Venice Beach for the rest of my life. All my favourite youtubers live in California. Do you know Kassem G? He does the 'California On' videos amongst other things on youtube, he's fooking hilarious
    Started from the bottom, now I'm here
    Started from the bottom, now my whole extended family's here

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  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #23 - April 27, 2011, 05:43 PM
    most certainly yes, as i don't live in london and i don't feel like commuting from birmingham to london Wink
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #24 - April 27, 2011, 06:00 PM
    hahahha  Prophet Muhammad's flying unicorn would totally come in handy wouldn't it?
    Started from the bottom, now I'm here
    Started from the bottom, now my whole extended family's here

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  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #25 - April 27, 2011, 06:19 PM
    Quote from: xxrb43 on April 27, 2011, 02:02 PM
    Prince Spinoza Lolol
    Finally got that parrot
    Thanks
     


    Just don't forget who gave you your first parrot when you're a big-shot CEMB member  cool2
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #26 - April 27, 2011, 06:24 PM
    xxrb43

    OMG. You have no idea how many times i had to double check that i wasn't reading my own introduction! Damn girl. clap just about every little thing you wrote is exactly what i went through. But only difference i guess is the fact that i've just only recently come out to my immediate family, and trust me TAKE MY WORD FOR IT. Don't come out to your parents until you're well in to your 20s, and are fully independent.

    I can say this with unfortunate first hand experience, i also used to feel entrapped and suffocated too when i couldn't speak my mind and say what i really felt, but to be honest i'd do anything to turn back the clock and chose not to come out. One thing that is strangely amazing is that many hardship spent days/hours/years in repression really brings a considerably unreal force in humans to deal with situations they never imagined they could handle, so i guess it's not completely up to us when to choose to come out, some are more patient than others, i couldn't take it longer than a year and i broke apart, got a load of psychological disorders and right now im in a really bad place, but i do hope that people learn from other's mistakes and decisions rather than hurt themselves the way some of us have had to do.

    Had you posted this thread a couple months ago, i would have suggested you come out as soon as you can and go live your life, but now i know that, that would be unwise, gosh time and situations can change a person so distinctively it is unbelievable, anyway hope to find you on irc chat too, all the cool cembers are on it, ie. ME grin12

    Ps. reading your thread has brought back my early teenage years!  Afro
    here you go another parrot  

    Pps.i'm at UCL too! OMG! grin12 but i'm doing Psychology and living in halls!
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #27 - April 27, 2011, 07:18 PM
    hahaha yea Kassem G is hilarious, he should get his own television show.
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1402050406

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  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #28 - April 27, 2011, 08:36 PM
    Welcome  parrot

    Wow that was very deep read 'O' I think I wanna consider your story a candidate to be turned into a comic some day. ^_^ You have a lot of courage. I mean being a hypocrite sucks. I'm an ex-Christian an my mother still thinks I'm Christian and sometimes I go to church to make her happy, but on the inside I'm thinking that everything is a bunch of bullshit. I personally value morals more than 'God' I hate that everyone has to be divided into categories. WHO CARES you are still you, even if you are atheist you still love your family right and you try to treat everyone with respect and carry yourself with respect? You don't need to be labelled Muslim, Jew, Christian whatever to do that. Now you understand why the sciences are practically banned under religion. Good luck with your studies Smiley Intelligence is something no one can take from you.
    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: To be (an atheist) or not to be?
     Reply #29 - April 27, 2011, 11:16 PM
    xxrb43 Welcome to the forum! Interesting introduction. You sound like you've got your head screwed on. I'm sure a lot of members here can understand the things you're going through.

    Quote from: xxrb43 on April 27, 2011, 05:35 PM
    serrated_colon Yes, this is my first year. I'm doing Human Genetics at UCL (University College London). The main course is actually Biological Sciences but I originally applied for Human Genetics. Are you going to live in halls? I applied really late and didn't get a place, I really wish I had applied earlier now :/

    Sherif I LOVE LONDONNNNN. It's such a metropolitan city and people are so nice and welcoming. Doesn't make you feel like a foreigner AT ALL and I personally don't feel any of the discrimination/racism that I experienced in other cities/countries. There's loads of stuff to do as well. So yeah, loveee it here.
    Ahhh California <3. I want to live in Venice Beach for the rest of my life. All my favourite youtubers live in California. Do you know Kassem G? He does the 'California On' videos amongst other things on youtube, he's fooking hilarious

    I guess they don't call it that godless institution on Gower street for nothing. grin12 (I'm there too btw)

    P.S: Just curious is there anything in particular your name stands for? Smiley
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