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 Topic: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed

 (Read 76873 times)
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  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #270 - May 04, 2011, 09:58 PM

    Setting aside momentarily the grammatical atrocity you've created, your command of geopolitics proves defective as your leaking breast implant for brains. It is the Washington Post which reports that the Taliban offered up bin Laden. Not the Bison. If you want to maintain that the mainstream US press is the political organ of the Taliban feel quite free, but do consider the loss to your dignity you might save by keeping your thoughts to yourself.

    And a grammatical note: The man’s name is not Bin Laden. It’s bin Laden. The word “bin” is not a proper noun and should never be capitalised. To be innocent of history is forgivable, but to be unlettered is folly. Grave folly.


    I place all the blame of poor grammar on the evil empire of Google's smart phone smart text.  The confounded contraption spells and capitalizes at its own desire, but this is not an English class nor are you an English professor.  Geo politics is story telling and poor story teller tells only one point and then reaches the conclusion.  I know that you are far wiser than me so I will ask you to tell the complete story of bin Laden and the Taliban, the great cosmopolitan judges fair and true to their folly's end of going against the white devil of G. W. Bush. and not just one Washington Times article.  

     Please enlighten me on the various entreaties of the Saudis, the Americans, the Pakistanis from various points from 1998 onward asking the Taliban to turn over bin Laden.  You may fill the sordid details of the Faustian deal Saudi Arabia was willing to make with the Taliban of funding them directly in equal amounts of bin Laden's inflows to the Taliban in exchange for the leader and the Americans, Saudi, Pakistani and European's worries as more evidence came to light about the good man's deeds in East Africa, Saudi Arabia, and else ware.  Perhaps you can correct my grammar as you explain the dual training that Al Qaida gave the Taliban and how the Taliban's fiercest unit was comprised of Arabs trained by Al Qaida, or how a fleet of Toyotas arrived at the dear Saudi's request for the fair justice deals to use in their emissary outreach to the tribes in the North, or how the culmination of the one eye'd Taliban's reply to the Saudi emissary asking why there were troubling the lion of the mujahideen after the evidence for the East African evidence was presented to them.  Or the culmination of the assassination of the Lion of Peshwar, not by Afganis of course, but by Al Qaida.  To say that Osama and the Taliban were one and the same would be a misnomer, they each had their own agendas, priorities, secrets, etc, but to say that they were completely separate or that the offer to turn Osama over was made by diplomats who were acting in good faith is fully hardy, but thank you for hamming away at the Washington Post's one article.  

    You are correct though, the impish G. W. Bush jumped the gun being the brute that he is.  He should have smeared the blood off the floor, wiped it up with a mop, rang up the Taliban and politely ask that they turn bin Ladin over,  while preparing a dossier and assigning a defense lawyer to the accused who would have briskly arrested the culprit and sent him to to Hague.  Tisk Tisk Americanos.  Always acting imprudently.  


    America's Secret War: Inside the Hidden Worldwide Struggle Between America and Its Enemies

    Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia

    Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001

    Descent into Chaos: The U.S. and the Disaster in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Central Asia


    Mod edit: Link edited as per this linking policy.

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #271 - May 04, 2011, 10:35 PM

    f
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #272 - May 04, 2011, 11:14 PM

    Come, come Yez my chocolate face,  

    ... yes.. yes.. DARK..DARK CHOCOLATE,  some cry and some scream.,  don't worry about it  

    With this international Islam of this Brute Osama and his gang you got be more coherent than your presentation in support of his international Islamic thuggery.  

    what do you mean by third country
    Quote
    At his Thursday news conference, Bush seemed to open a door he and others had already declared firmly closed when he told the Taliban's leaders that if they would "cough up" bin Laden, they could have a "second chance" to stop the military assault. On Sunday, Bush rejected a Taliban offer to turn over bin Laden to a third country.

    what third country are you talking?? Why third country??    Such stupid talks are the reason Americans bombed the shit  out of these fools..


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #273 - May 04, 2011, 11:20 PM

    d
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #274 - May 04, 2011, 11:39 PM

    I personally can't wait 'til someone shoots Bush and Obama in the head and dumps their bodies at the bottom of the sea.
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #275 - May 04, 2011, 11:42 PM

    d
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #276 - May 04, 2011, 11:48 PM

    *adds MAB to list*

    Edit: hit-list*, before you get any ideas.
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #277 - May 05, 2011, 12:01 AM

    I have a book rec for you my sweet.
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #278 - May 05, 2011, 12:27 AM

    is it bigger than the last one?
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #279 - May 05, 2011, 12:34 AM

    LET'S ALL JUST HAVE SEX. OBL IS DEAD  grin12

  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #280 - May 05, 2011, 12:58 AM

    Yeez... actually the actual act was confirmed with, EKIA!*  *enemy killed
    in action)

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #281 - May 05, 2011, 02:02 AM

    Oh right yeah because that way al-Qaeda won't notice that their old man is missing.


    Al-Qaeda didn't even know until Obama mentioned it.

    Roll Eyes

    In one of your previous posts you specifically mentioned that (according to you) the issue here is violation of international laws.
    Here:

    Since you are an expert on the topic of international law I find it surprising that you failed to notice that public hearing is defined as an absolute right according to the said law:

    Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that:
    "Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him."

    As a minimum the right to fair trial includes the following fair trial rights in civil and criminal proceedings (this includes crimes against humanity and war crimes):

    the right to be heard by a competent, independent and impartial tribunal
    the right to a public hearing
    the right to be heard within a reasonable time
    the right to counsel
    the right to interpretation

    Do you think the reason International Criminal Court in Hague conducts public trials is purely for the benefit of public entertainment or what?





    Hmm, my bad  Tongue But your original statement about the risk of Al-Qaeda taking hostages in order to get him released isn't good enough, because a) afaik they've never tried that in the past  and b) Alleged war criminals have been wanted by the ICC even though the risk to harming civilians (thousands!) was a very real possibility: the President of Sudan being an example.
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #282 - May 05, 2011, 02:02 AM

    LET'S ALL JUST HAVE SEX. OBL IS DEAD  grin12




    No.
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #283 - May 05, 2011, 02:13 AM

    This is a serious thread? Dammit  finmad

    i'll take my bunny elsewhere  bunny
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #284 - May 05, 2011, 04:11 AM

    @Deusvult

    Let's backtrack. I asserted that Washington declined a Taliban offer to reach a diplomatic resolution for which I gave corroborating evidence from the mainstream press. You scoffed that the beardos are rogue actors. I retorted that rogue states of all sorts comply with the war on terror among which are the Saudis, the Pakistanis and the Egyptians. There is no contradiction between being an oppresive state and complying with the demands of the hyper-power. The operative word is realpolitik.


    A comparison that doesn't hold much weight against the evidence that the Taliban were A) being supported logistically and with manpower from OBL B) Refused to give him up multiple times to multiple " third parties" and refused to give him up even with the reward of equivalent funds and evidence of his violence.  The fact that the were oppressive to their own population makes little difference to me.    You might as well say that Germany would have given back Czechoslovakia at the beginning of WWII because some other Western country gave back some other territory some other time, using that logic.

    Quote
    You carefully evaded this and rejoindered that the Taliban are not model international citizens. And now you ask me to speculate why before 9/11 Osama was not handed in. I don't traffic in idle conjecture. Whatever the answer to this may be, it still does not alter the fact, not speculation, but ample fact documented times without number by journalists that after the world trade center attacks the Taliban, realising his liability, did offer him up and Dubya rejected it.


    Should have gone with the guardian article.  It is better written.  They did offer to give him up ( before the bombing but after serious insertions of Special Forces  and even without evidence after the bombing started and the serious threats to the regime started.  If you think that the Bush administration should have stopped and listened to a boy who had cried wolf so many times before because they had seen the light I don't fault the idealistic idea of an exchange happening, turning the man over to the Hague where his past bombings and 9/11 could be put on trial ( this obvious is under the assumption that the Hague has jurisdiction, if it is a matter of a policing action of criminal terrorism then the US Federal Courts would have jurisdiction and he should have been turned over directly to the US and not to a third country) But I don't particularly fault an administration ignoring the oft too late repeated but never too early offers to turn over bin Ladin.  Realpolitik.  


    Quote
    And it is simply unfounded that al-Qaeda formed the backbone of the Taliban. The Pentagon says that only one hundred of them remain in Afghanistan out of tens of thousand of Pashtun fighters, the tribal and nationalist elements who for centuries have fought invading powers. Bin laden only joined the Taliban in '96 when they took Kabul and was originally the guest of the former president Burhanuddin Rabbani, a friend to the present head of state Hamid Karzai.


    When was anyone talking about Al Qaida today?   Who said al- Qaeda formed the backbone of the Taliban?  It wasn't me. I believe the word that Ahmed Rashid used was " intertwined" in Descent into Chaos at the time of 1999-2001.  Not a backbone but not easily separated.

    Now if at the time the Bush administration had people who actually had a clue of the importance of the region, knowledge of its people, not pussy whipped to Pakistani desires to get ISI trainers out of Afganistan and actually took the threat of al- Qaeda seriously then OBL would have been captured easily at Tora Bora or during Operation Anaconda, hundreds of Al Qaeda operatives dead or captured, and could have easily either made a deal with the Taliban colonizers and their Pakistani handlers to let the Taliban collect their imperialistic Risk card as long as Al Qaeda didn't show up and leave or if they would have liked put actual work into the rebuilding a nation forgotten, build a civil infrastructure for those who resisted Taliban occupation and who preferred a more open and civil society.  Instead Bush committed the treasonous act of completely neglecting those who actually committed murder against Americans, let them go free, and diverted all the much needed forces to some fantasy vendetta against Iraq.  In that sense, after the US had squandered any forward momentum in capturing Al Qaeda operatives in Afghanistan and/or capturing bin Laden then turning it into a quazi colonial occupation was and is unacceptable.    

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #285 - May 05, 2011, 04:42 AM

    Party in the USA. Osama's funeral song?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M11SvDtPBhA
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #286 - May 05, 2011, 05:16 AM

    But the part-aaay's waaaay better in the UK! Someone should really tell Miley Montana/Hannah Cyrus whatever her name is  Huh?
  • are you thick or 'summat'?
     Reply #287 - May 05, 2011, 05:48 AM

    Al-Qaeda didn't even know until Obama mentioned it.

    Uncle Osama is missing, four others shot dead and the house is on fire.

    Yeah, no one in his circle would know unless Obama opens his big mouth.

    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #288 - May 05, 2011, 08:29 AM


    Still dead? Good.
     

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #289 - May 05, 2011, 08:58 AM

    Reuters report.

    ++++++

    ISLAMABAD/WASHINGTON (Reuters) – In 2003 or 2004, Pakistani intelligence agents trailed a suspected militant courier to a house in the picturesque hill town of Abbottabad in northern Pakistan.

    There, the agents determined that the courier would make contact with one of the world's most wanted men, Abu Faraj al-Libbi, who had succeeded September 11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Muhammad as al Qaeda operations chief a few months earlier.

    Agents from Pakistan's powerful and mysterious Inter-Services Intelligence agency, known as the ISI, raided a house but failed to find al-Libbi, a senior Pakistani intelligence official told Reuters this week.

    Former Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf later wrote in his memoirs that an interrogation of the courier revealed that al-Libbi used three houses in Abbottabad, which sits some 50 km (30 miles) northeast of Islamabad. The intelligence official said that one of those houses may have been in the same compound where on May 1 U.S. special forces killed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

    It's a good story. But is it true? Pakistan's foreign ministry this week used the earlier operation as evidence of Pakistan's commitment to the fight against terrorism. You see, Islamabad seemed to be pointing out, we were nabbing bad guys seven years ago in the very neighborhood where you got bin Laden.

    But U.S. Department of Defense satellite photos show that in 2004 the site where bin Laden was found this week was nothing but an empty field. A U.S. official briefed on the bin Laden operation told Reuters he had heard nothing to indicate there had been an earlier Pakistani raid.

    There are other reasons to puzzle. Pakistan's foreign ministry says that Abbottabad, home to several military installations, has been under surveillance since 2003. If that's true, then why didn't the ISI uncover bin Laden, who U.S. officials say has been living with his family and entourage in a well-guarded compound for years?

    The answer to that question goes to the heart of the troubled relationship between Pakistan and the United States. Washington has long believed that Islamabad, and especially the ISI, play a double game on terrorism, saying one thing but doing another.

    MARRIAGE OF CONVENIENCE

    Since 9/11 the United States has relied on Pakistan's military to fight al Qaeda and Taliban forces in the mountainous badlands along Pakistan's border with Afghanistan. President George W. Bush forged a close personal relationship with military leader Musharraf.

    But U.S. officials have also grown frustrated with Pakistan. While Islamabad has been instrumental in catching second-tier and lower ranked al Qaeda and Taliban leaders, and several operatives identified as al Qaeda "number threes" have either been captured or killed, the topmost leaders - bin Laden and his Egyptian deputy Ayman al Zawahiri -- have consistently eluded capture.

    The ISI, which backed the Taliban when the group came to power in Afghanistan in the mid-1990s, seemed to turn a blind eye -- or perhaps even helped -- as Taliban and al-Qaeda members fled into Pakistan during the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11, according to U.S. officials.

    Washington also believes the agency protected Abdul Qadeer Khan, lionized as the "father" of Pakistan's bomb, who was arrested in 2004 for selling nuclear secrets to Iran, Libya and North Korea.

    And when Kashmiri militants attacked the Indian city of Mumbai in 2008, killing 166 people, New Delhi accused the ISI of controlling and coordinating the strikes. A key militant suspect captured by the Americans later told investigators that ISI officers had helped plan and finance the attack. Pakistan denies any active ISI connection to the Mumbai attacks and often points to the hundreds of troops killed in action against militants as proof of its commitment to fighting terrorism.

    But over the past few years Washington has grown increasingly suspicious-and ready to criticize Pakistan. The U.S. military used association with the spy agency as one of the issues they would question Guantanamo Bay prisoners about to see if they had links to militants, according to WikiLeaks documents made available last month to the New York Times.

    U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said last July that she believed that Pakistani officials knew where bin Laden was holed up. On a visit to Pakistan just days before the Abbottabad raid, Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Military's Joint Chiefs of Staff, accused the ISI of maintaining links with the Taliban.

    As the CIA gathered enough evidence to make the case that bin Laden was in Abbottabad, U.S. intel chiefs decided that Pakistan should be kept in the dark. When U.S. Navy Seals roped down from helicopters into the compound where bin Laden was hiding, U.S. officials insist, Pakistan's military and intel bosses were blissfully unaware of what was happening in the middle of their country.

    Some suspect Pakistan knew more than it's letting on. But the Pakistani intelligence official, who asked to remain anonymous so that he could speak candidly, told Reuters that the Americans had acted alone and without any Pakistani assistance or permission.

    The reality is Washington long ago learned to play its own double game. It works with Islamabad when it can and uses Pakistani assets when it's useful but is ever more careful about revealing what it's up to.

    "On the one hand, you can't not deal with the ISI... There definitely is the cooperation between the two agencies in terms of personnel working on joint projects and the day-to-day intelligence sharing," says Kamran Bokhari, Middle East and South Asia director for global intelligence firm STRATFOR. But "there is this perception on the part of the American officials working with their counterparts in the ISI, there is the likelihood that some of these people might be working with the other side. Or somehow the information we're sharing could leak out... It's the issue of perception and suspicion."

    The killing of bin Laden exposes just how dysfunctional the relationship has become. The fact that bin Laden seems to have lived for years in a town an hour's drive from Islamabad has U.S. congressmen demanding to know why Washington is paying $1 billion a year in aid to Pakistan. Many of the hardest questions are directed at the ISI. Did it know bin Laden was there? Was it helping him? Is it rotten to the core or is it just a few sympathizers?

    What's clear is that the spy agency America must work within one of the world's most volatile and dangerous regions remains an enigma to outsiders.

    GENERAL PASHA

    ISI chief Lieutenant General Ahmed Shuja Pasha visited Washington on April 11, just weeks before bin Laden was killed. Pasha, 59, became ISI chief in September 2008, two months before the Mumbai attacks. Before his promotion, he was in charge of military operations against Islamic militants in the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan. He is considered close to Pakistan military chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, himself a long-time ISI chief.

    A slight man who wastes neither words nor movements, Pasha speaks softly and is able to project bland anonymity even as he sizes up his companions and surroundings. In an off-the-record interview with Reuters last year, he spoke deliberately and quietly but seemed to enjoy verbal sparring. There was none of the bombast many Pakistani officials put on.

    Pasha, seen by U.S. officials as something of a right-wing nationalist, and CIA Director Leon Panetta, who was in the final stages of planning the raid on Osama's compound, had plenty to talk about in Washington. Joint intelligence operations have been plagued by disputes, most notably the case of Raymond Davis, a CIA contractor who shot dead two Pakistanis in Lahore in January. Davis was released from jail earlier this year after the victims' families were paid "blood money" by the United States, a custom sanctioned under Islam and common in Pakistan.

    Then there are the Mumbai attacks. Pasha and other alleged ISI officers were named as defendants in a U.S. lawsuit filed late last year by families of Americans killed in the attacks. The lawsuit contends that the ISI men were involved with Lashkar-e-Taiba, an anti-India militant group, in planning and orchestrating the attacks.

    An Indian government report seen by Reuters states that David Headley, a Pakistani-American militant who was allied with Lashkar-e-Taiba and who was arrested in the United States last year, told Indian interrogators while under FBI supervision that ISI officers had been involved in plotting the attack and paid him $25,000 to help fund it.

    Pakistan's government said it will "strongly contest" the case and shortly after the lawsuit was filed Pakistani media named the undercover head of the CIA's Islamabad station, forcing him to leave the country.

    TECHNIQUE OF WAR

    The ISI's ties to Islamist militancy are very much by design.

    The Pakistan Army's humiliating surrender to India in Dhaka in 1971 led to the carving up of the country into two parts, one West Pakistan and the other Bangladesh. The defeat had two major effects: it convinced the Pakistan military that it could not beat its larger neighbor through conventional means alone, a realization that gave birth to its use of Islamist militant groups as proxies to try to bleed India; and it forced successive Pakistani governments to turn to Islam as a means of uniting the territory it had left.

    These shifts, well underway when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in 1979, suited the United States at first. Working with its Saudi Arabian ally, Washington plowed money and weapons into the jihad against the Soviets and turned a blind eye to the excesses of Pakistan's military ruler, General Zia ul-Haq, who had seized power in 1977 and hanged former Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto in 1979.

    Many Pakistanis blame the current problems in Pakistan in part on Washington's penchant for supporting military rulers. It did the same in 2001 when it threw it its lot with Musharraf following the attacks on New York and Washington. By then, the rebellion in Indian Kashmir had been going since 1989, and U.S. officials back in 2001 made little secret that they knew the army was training, arming and funding militants to fight there.

    That attitude changed after India and Pakistan nearly went to war following the December 2001 attack on India's parliament, which New Delhi blamed on Pakistan-based militant groups -- a charge Islamabad denied. Musharraf began to rein in the Kashmiri militant groups, restricting their activity across the Line of Control which divides the Indian and Pakistani parts of Kashmir. But he was juggling the two challenges which continue to defy his successor as head of the army, General Ashfaq Kayani -- reining in the militant groups enough to prevent an international backlash on Pakistan, while giving them enough space to operate to avoid domestic fall-out at home.

    The ISI has never really tried to hide the fact that it sees terrorism as part of its arsenal. When Guantanamo interrogation documents appearing to label the Pakistani security agency as an entity supporting terrorism were published recently, a former ISI head, Lt. General Asad Durrani, wrote that terrorism "is a technique of war, and therefore an instrument of policy."

    Critics believe that elements of the ISI -- perhaps an old guard that learned the Islamization lessons of General Zia ul-Haq a little too well -- maintain an influence within the organization. "It is no secret that Pakistan's army and foreign intelligence service, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) directorate, actively cultivated a vast array of Islamist militants - both local and foreign, from the early 1980s until at least the events of September 11, 2001 - as instruments of foreign policy," STRATFOR wrote in an analysis posted on its website this week.

    LIST OF GRIEVANCES

    That legacy is at the heart of Washington's growing mistrust of the ISI.

    Take the agency's ties to the powerful Afghan militant group headed by Jalaluddin Haqqani, which has inflicted heavy casualties on U.S. forces in the region.

    "We sometimes say: You are controlling -- you, Pasha -- you're controlling Haqqani," one U.S. official said, speaking to Reuters on condition of anonymity.

    "Well, Pasha will come back and say ... 'No, we are in contact with them.' Well, what does that really mean?"

    "I don't know but I'd like our experts to sit down and work out: Is this something where he is trying (to), as he would put it, know more about what a terrorist group in his country is doing. Or as we would put it, to manipulate these people as the forward soldiers of Pakistani influence in Afghanistan."

    When U.S. Joint Chiefs head Admiral Mike Mullen visited Islamabad last month he was just as blunt.

    "Haqqani is supporting, funding, training fighters that are killing Americans and killing coalition partners. And I have a sacred obligation to do all I can to make sure that doesn't happen," Mullen told a Pakistani newspaper.

    "So that's at the core -- it's not the only thing -- but that's at the core that I think is the most difficult part of the relationship."

    Just across the border in Afghanistan, Major General John Campbell reaches into a bag and pulls out a thick stack of cards with the names and photos of coalition forces killed in the nearly year-long period since he's been on the job. Many of the men in the photos were killed by Haqqani fighters.

    "I carry these around so I never forget their sacrifice," Campbell said, speaking to a small group of reporters at U.S. Forward Operating Base Salerno in Khost province.

    "There are guys in Pakistan that have sanctuary that are coming across the border and killing Americans... we gotta engage the Pakistanis to do something about that," he said.

    Campbell calls the Haqqani network the most lethal threat to Afghanistan, where U.S. forces are entrenched in a near decade-old war.

    "The Haqqani piece, it's sort of like a Mafia-syndicate. And I don't know at what level they're tied into the ISI -- I don't. But there's places ... that you just see that there's collusion up and down the border," he said.

    DRONE WARS

    Another contentious subject discussed on Pasha's trip to Washington was the use of missile-firing drones to attack suspected militant camps on Pakistani territory.

    Once Obama moved into the White House, the drone program begun by the Bush Administration not only continued, but according to several officials, increased. Sometimes drone strikes in the tribal areas of Pakistan took place several times in a single week.

    U.S. officials, as well as counter-terrorism officials from European countries with a history of Islamic militant activity, said that they had no doubt that the drone campaign was seriously damaging the ability of al Qaeda's central operation, as well as affiliated groups like the Pakistani and Afghan Taliban, to continue to use Pakistan as a safe haven.

    But the increasingly obvious use of drones made it far more difficult for either the CIA or its erstwhile Pakistani partners, ISI, to pretend that the operation was secret and that Pakistani officials were unaware of it. Since last October, the tacit cooperation between the CIA and ISI which had helped protect and even nurture the CIA's drone program, began to fray, and came close to breaking point.

    Before Pasha visited CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, last month, Pakistani intelligence sources leaked ferocious complaints about the CIA in general and the drone program in particular, suggesting that the agency, its operatives and its operations inside Pakistan were out of control and that if necessary, Pakistan would take forcible steps to curb them -- including stopping drone attacks and limiting the presence of CIA operatives in Pakistan.

    When Pasha arrived at CIA HQ, U.S. officials said, the demands leaked by the Pakistanis to the media were much scaled down, with Pasha asking Panetta that the US give Pakistan more notice about drone operations, supply Pakistan with its own fleet of drones (a proposal which the United States had agreed to but which had subsequently stalled) and that the agency would curb the numbers of its personnel in Pakistan.

    U.S. officials said that the Obama administration agreed to at least some measure of greater notification to the Pakistani authorities about CIA activities, though insisted any concessions were quite limited.

    Just weeks later, Obama failed to notify Pakistan in advance about the biggest U.S. counter-terrorist operation in living memory, conducted on Pakistani soil.

    LEARNING FROM HISTORY

    It was different the first time U.S. forces went after bin Laden.

    Washington's first attempt to kill the al Qaeda leader came in August 1998. President Bill Clinton launched 66 cruise missiles from the Arabian Sea at camps in Khost in eastern Afghanistan to kill the group's top brass in retaliation for the suicide bombings on U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

    The CIA had received word that al Qaeda's leadership was due to meet. But Bin Laden canceled the meeting and several U.S. officials said at the time they believed the ISI had tipped him off. The U.S. military informed their Pakistani counterparts about 90 minutes before the missiles entered Pakistan's airspace, just in case they mistook them for an Indian attack.

    Then U.S. Secretary of State William Cohen came to suspect bin Laden escaped because he was tipped off. Four days before the operation, the State Department issued a public warning about a "very serious threat" and ordered hundreds of nonessential U.S. personnel and dependents out of Pakistan. Some U.S. officials said the Taliban could have passed the word to bin Laden on an ISI tip.

    Other former officials have disputed the notion of a security breach, saying bin Laden had plenty of notice that the United States intended to retaliate following the bombings in Africa.

    WHAT'S NEXT?

    Now that the U.S. has finally killed bin Laden, what will change?

    The Pakistani intelligence official acknowledged that bin Laden's presence in Pakistan will cause more problems with the United States. "It looks bad," he said. "It's pretty embarrassing." But he denied that Pakistan had been hiding bin Laden, and noted that the CIA had struggled to find bin Laden for years as well.

    Perhaps. But the last few days are unlikely to convince the CIA and other U.S. agencies to trust their Pakistani counterparts with any kind of secrets or partnership.

    Recent personnel changes at the top of the Obama Administration also do not bode well for salvaging the relationship.

    Panetta, a former Congressman and senior White House official, is a political operator who officials say at least got on cordially, if not well, with ISI chief Pasha. But Panetta is being reassigned to take over from Robert Gates as Secretary of Defense. His replacement at the CIA will be General David Petraeus, the commander of U.S. military operations in neighboring Afghanistan.

    The biggest issue on Petraeus's agenda will be dealing with Pakistan's ISI. The U.S. general's relationship with Pakistani Army chief of Staff Kayani, Pasha's immediate superior, is publicly perceived to be so unfriendly that it has become a topic of discussion on Pakistani TV talk shows.

    "I think it is going to be a very strained and difficult relationship," said Bruce Riedel, a former adviser to Obama on Afghanistan and Pakistan. He characterized the attitude on both sides as "mutual distrust."

    After a decade of American involvement in Afghanistan, experts say that Petraeus and Pakistani intelligence officials know each other well enough not to like each other.

    (Additional reporting by Rebecca Conway in Islamabad, Mark Hosenball and Phil Stewart in Washington, and Sanjeev Miglani in Singapore)

    (Writing by Bill Tarrant; editing by Simon Robinson, Claudia Parsons and Jim Impoco)

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110505/wl_nm/us_binladen_pakistan_isi;_ylt=ApqEvDlsaUifZcytKnSVSc4Bxg8F;_ylu=X3oDMTJ1bHRhaTJxBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTEwNTA1L3VzX2JpbmxhZGVuX3Bha2lzdGFuX2lzaQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDeW5fcGFnaW5hdGVfc3VtbWFyeV9saXN0BHNsawNzcGVjaWFscmVwb3I-



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #290 - May 05, 2011, 11:50 AM

    Reuters report.

    ++++++

    ISLAMABAD/WASHINGTON (Reuters) –  ................

    The ISI has never really tried to hide the fact that it sees terrorism as part of its arsenal. When Guantanamo interrogation documents appearing to label the Pakistani security agency as an entity supporting terrorism were published recently, a former ISI head, Lt. General Asad Durrani, wrote that terrorism "is a technique of war, and therefore an instrument of policy."


    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110505/wl_nm/us_binladen_pakistan_isi;_ylt=ApqEvDlsaUifZcytKnSVSc4Bxg8F;_ylu=X3oDMTJ1bHRhaTJxBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTEwNTA1L3VzX2JpbmxhZGVuX3Bha2lzdGFuX2lzaQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDeW5fcGFnaW5hdGVfc3VtbWFyeV9saXN0BHNsawNzcGVjaWFscmVwb3I-

    that bloody ISI Killed Bhutto, and controlled politicians of Pakistan through its army since his death..

    One very important step that Pakistan MUST TAKE is remove and replace the top 10 characters in ISI and put civilians as in charge    Preferably a university faculty member who taught basic sciences more than 15 years.. .  hat will clean up lot of mess in Pakistan.

    Well here is better one to read  on  THE DUMPED DEAD DIRT IN SEA..  http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/05/dead-man-and-the-sea.html

    Quote
    Dead Dirt and the sea

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    We asked world famous occult medium, Mr. Abdul Qadir Awami Badami, to connect and communicate with Osama bin Laden's soul, to ask him what really happened on the night he was shot dead in Abbottabad 

    Mr. Osama, can you hear me? Mr. Osama?
    Bubble &; bubble & bubble

    I think I have made contact with the departed soul. Mr. Osama, can you hear me?
    Yes, where am I? Is this heaven?

    No, sir, you are at the bottom of the sea.
    Sea? Hmmm; yes, it does seem that way. Am I dead?

    Well, yes. Kind of.
    Hmm ' how did I die?

    I was hoping you could tell me that.
    All I remember is that it was night and I was waiting for the Kakul guys to get my dinner, and then I heard these copters and thought maybe the Kakul guys were throwing me a surprise party or something and I got very excited, and

    The Kakul guys used to give you dinner?
    Well, yes. Biryani on Mondays and Tuesdays, chicken chowmein on Wednesdays, steak on Thursdays, mixed veggies on Saturdays and Sundays

    And on Fridays?
    On Fridays I used to call them over for dinner. One of my wives makes a darn good Yemeni stew.

    I see. So they knew you were hiding there?
    Of course, they did! They re my wives!

    I mean the Kakul guys.
    Oh. Well, according to their intelligence reports, I was some rich Arab camel breeder and exporter.

    Really? They didn't bother to cross-check?
    Let’s just say, I was not on their radar.

    Must be the same radar that failed to pick the American 'copters '
    I tell you, my men have better radars, hehehe … bubble, bubble..
    By the way, you said that I was in hiding?

    Weren't you in hiding?
    Not at all!

    Then why did the Americans take 10 years to find you?
    Those fools don't know much about caves.

    But you weren't hiding in a cave, sir.
    My friend, let me tell you, all of Pakistan is one big cave!

    Then did the Pakistanis really know you were in the country all along?
    My friend, they wouldn't have been Pakistanis had they not known. Hehe 'bubble, bubble.

    Huh?
    Never mind.

    So you are saying they knew?
    Well I was 'excuse me, I think I have a fish stuck in my ear. *Plop!* Ah, a red snapper! So, what were you saying? By the way, what is your name, brother?

    Abdul Qadir Awami Badami
    That is a strange name. Are you by any chance a Hindu?

    No.
    Hmm … I guess I will have to kill you anyway.

    But you are dead.
    Oh, right, of course. Then I guess I will kill some fish instead.

    Are you a seafood fan?
    No, I just like killing infidels.

    Infidel fish?
    Yes, you have a problem with that, you idol worshipper!

    How can fish be infidel?
    Look at them! Swimming in the sea, all naked!

    But they are fish!
    And stark naked! Shameless.

    Whatever, tell us about your stay in Pakistan…
    It reminded me of home.

    Saudi Arabia?
    No, Afghanistan, but with better cars and escalators.

    But you’re a Saudi.
    I'm a Muslim first. The best there was. And if you disagree I will get you killed. You are a Christian Crusader anyway.

    No.
    Non-Muslim!

    Human being.
    Infidel!

    Any difference between human beings and Muslims?
    Of course there is. That is why we only kill human beings.

    But you and your al Qaeda and Taliban friends have killed thousands of Pakistani Muslims.
    They were all bad Muslims.

    How can you say that?
    I don't say. 'I blow!

    No, you say, while others blow...
    Those who blow have true faith.

    Even the small children and infants who have died in these attacks?
    Yes!

    So people who blow themselves up in mosques, shrines and markets are the only true Muslims?
    It is much more complicated than that. A very complex concept.

    Please explain.
    You see, only those Muslims who blow themselves up in mosques, shrines and markets are the only true Muslims.

    But that's what I said.
    You did?

    Yes.
    I see ' you Hindu!

    Why did you say that?
    Because you worship idols.

    But to some, you are an idol too.
    I am an ideal.

    A pretty violent one though.
    Yes, mashallah.

    But I'm not forcing my beliefs on you.
    That is because you are a chicken!

    So I should impose them on you?
    Yes. Come on, I invite you to convert to my faith. Where is your suicide jacket?

    Where's yours?
    I deal in suicide jackets, not wear them, fool.

    I know so many Muslims who are nothing like you.
    They are not Muslims!

    Then who are they?
    Human beings! Ugh!

    But I thought a good Muslim also meant being a good human being.
    Jewish propaganda!

    What?
    Well, as I  excuse me, I think I see a shark approaching.

    Why don't you move from there?
    No worries. You know that red snapper that got stuck in my ear?

    Yes…
    Well, I trained it to become a suicide bomber. It just exploded over the shark's head!

    But the shark did not attack you!
    But it could have.

    You're sounding like George W. Bush. He, too, was into pre-emptive strikes, remember?
    Ah, good ol'  Bushy. He was good for my business. But this Obama guy turned out to be different.

    Different, how? In policy and in strategy?
    No, in colour. He is black.

    A human being, nevertheless.
    That is the problem. The whole world should be Muslim, instead.

    Yes, just like Bush wanted the whole world to become American.
    Ah, good old Bushy. Those were the days. Right, I guess I will kill you now.

    But you're dead. Buried deep in the sea.
    They buried me here?

    Yes, the Americans buried you in the sea.
    Wow! Has Obama converted to Islam?

    What do you mean? You were a Salafi, right?
    Yes. I am amazed. How did he know we didn't believe in marked graves?

    But some of your fans around the world are criticising him for not giving you a decent Muslim burial.
    Infidels!

    So you are happy that they buried you in the sea?
    Of course! Otherwise bad Muslims would have made a shrine at my grave. We blow up shrines, you know.

    Yes I do. But this is amazing. You are actually happy at what Obama did?
    Yes, but minus the shooting-me-in-the-head part, of course.

    So you do remember that you were shot in the head?
    Well, I really do have this bad headache and … well,  I'll be dammed! There is a hole in my head! The buggers did shoot me!

    The Americans?
    Yes, who else? The Pakistanis?

    So Pakistanis weren't at all involved in your assassination?
    Well, their only contribution to this was that on that fateful, tragic night they delayed my dinner. Buggers.  Had to be shot on an empty stomach.

    But the Taliban are blaming them and saying that now their top target is Pakistan.
    Really? What was our top target before my death? Guatemala?

    You tell me.
    Hmmm   better warn Mullah Omar.

    Why, is he hiding in Pakistan too?
    Follow the dinner trail, follow the dinner trail …

    So the Pakistanis did know you were there, right?
    Pakistanis don't know where they themselves are, forget about knowing where I was. What is the Pakistani media saying?

    Some of their TV anchors seem shocked and sad.
    Yes, one of them once worked as a cook for me and another used to give me great massages.

    Can you name them?
    No. Don't want to give them undue importance. Let the ISI do that.

    The ISI gives them importance?
    Sort of. They give the ISI great massages too.

    Can you be more specific?
    Yes, I can. I. Want. To. Behead. You. You. Hindu. How is that for being specific, you cunning Jew?

    Human being.
    Same thing.

    Whatever.
    Chicken! Come on fight me, you Buddhist coward!

    I am disconnecting from you now. May God deal with you in whatever way he thinks you are to be dealt with.
    Darn. I almost forgot. You are right. Now I will have to meet the maker. Do you think he likes seafood?


    well that  is from Nadeem F. Paracha
    The only thing I did was replacing Dead man with "Dead Dirt" n the heading., And I would als suggest to Nadeem to write another nugget on "Mullahs & Sun Glasses"   and ..and mention in it

     "That any and every Mullah with Sunglasses and with that red colored dyed beard should  be Arrested,  clean shaved and fined some 10000 rupees for walking on the road with that cartoon caricature.. "

    Mock Them and Move on ... as My & intellectual Muslim friend Muhammad Asadi used to write at me often as if he was mocking me..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #291 - May 05, 2011, 12:29 PM

    Oh natasa!!!  GREAT Scrabble word! 

    rejoindered

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #292 - May 05, 2011, 12:38 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKmzKv9CtRc

    Well Mr. Obama., there is NOTHING WRONG to show the picture of Osama and other in that house before they were SHOT., I am sure there must be picture of  those images

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #293 - May 05, 2011, 12:43 PM

    omg yeez that interview was a riot!   Cheesy

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #294 - May 05, 2011, 01:17 PM

    STUPID FOOL.. and you teach in Schools??  leave the job to others  & go and do something else...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #295 - May 05, 2011, 01:27 PM

    But your original statement about the risk of Al-Qaeda taking hostages in order to get him released isn't good enough, because a) afaik they've never tried that in the past ...

    So what?
    The fact that Al-Qaeda hasn't done anything like that in the past doesn't necessarily mean that they wouldn't try and blackmail US in case their leader was captured.

    Besides I never mentioned Al-Qaeda specifically. I was referring to militant Islamists in general - the hypothetical scenario I presented was based on what happened in Beslan. 

    b) Alleged war criminals have been wanted by the ICC even though the risk to harming civilians (thousands!) was a very real possibility: the President of Sudan being an example.

    And?
    Osama bin Laden has been on FBI's most wanted list for years and what did Al-Qaeda do about it? If anything it raised bin Laden's profile as a fighter against 'the evil crusaders'.
    We are talking about the difference between indictment on one hand and actually taking somebody into custody/putting them on trial on the other.


    Btw do you know why my previous post was indefensible?
    If one was to assume that bin Laden actually surrendered to Navy Seals that is.

    Because if we were to have a rule of law a fair trial cannot be denied to bin Laden just because of possible future repercussions.

    One is not allowed to kill an enemy combatant who is trying to surrender but killing an enemy commander in the field is perfectly lawful.
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #296 - May 05, 2011, 01:29 PM

    This might be a stupid question, but where do you guys learn all the political views and figures etc from? Just the newspapers, articles etc? o.o...I wish I were more politically opinionated :/ I just don't know enough about political affairs to saying anything on the matter really, then again I can imagine getting bored and fast if I tried reading about it. lol.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #297 - May 05, 2011, 01:36 PM

    This might be a stupid question, but where do you guys learn all the political views and figures etc from? Just the newspapers, articles etc? o.o...I wish I were more politically opinionated :/ I just don't know enough about political affairs to saying anything on the matter really, then again I can imagine getting bored and fast if I tried reading about it. lol.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #298 - May 05, 2011, 01:39 PM

    Yeah, no one in his circle would know unless Obama opens his big mouth.

    That's racist slander.
    Just because Obama is half black doesn't mean that he has a 'big mouth'.
  • Re: Osama Bin Laden, most wanted man in the world, has been killed
     Reply #299 - May 05, 2011, 01:45 PM


    Just met a Muslim acquaintance. Osama bin Laden was not involved in 9/11, felt ambivalent about him because he fomented hatred against Shia. Overall, he was heroic.

    *head in my hands*


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

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