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Theme Changer

 Topic: Democracy and Islam

 (Read 12399 times)
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  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #60 - May 15, 2011, 09:43 AM

    I didn't say that.

    And you know where that places your score in the IQ schematic.



    IQ?  what IQ? Bisons don't have Iq and don't  use that "I",  Bisons  make sounds   lol..

    Well  our bison is slightly different guy  he smokes cigars and  flirts  with mark twain's linguistic vigor  while cigar smoke coming out of his ears..

    Common billy., what happened to you?  you know "How to Hang them high"  " How to Skin Them Alive" ..lol...     show some of that zest

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #61 - May 15, 2011, 10:23 AM

    Quote
    while cigar smoke coming out of his ears..


     Grin

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #62 - May 15, 2011, 02:14 PM

    Quite so. The Christers are their biggest allies. Aphrodite is correct.

    The fact that Hezbollah is a coalition partner with Free Patriotic Movement equates to Hezbollah 'not persecuting others'?

    I do think that I gave ample evidence to the contrary when it comes to Hezbollah actions apropos Israeli civilians. Or do war crimes in your opinion do not constitute oppression of others?
    Furthermore why do you think that UN accused Hezbollah of destabilizing the region and causing harm to Lebanese civilians? That would be the very same population that Hezbollah is apparently supposed to protect but their actions amount to the exact opposite.
    Besides when it comes to Lebanese politics I suppose that you are fully aware of the fact that it is organized along sectarian lines where respective parties try and stay out of what is perceived as 'territory' (in terms of respective 'communities') of their coalition partners.
    Hezbollah's influence in Lebanon is malignant which is exactly what is to be expected of a reactionary group such as Hezbollah but I am fully aware of the fact that is a political reality and therefore unfortunately unavoidable.

    Forgive me for not believing my eyes when people start praising organisations such as Hezbollah or Hamas in an all to easy and uncritical acceptance of such groups as representing progressive forms of struggle although their ideology is explicitly anti-egalitarian.

    They can promote what they want as long as they don't impose their views on anyone-they're not!

    I am no expert when it comes to Lebanese politics but I do know that a very existence of a group that is as powerful as Hezbollah and basically constitutes a state within a state puts immense pressure on the Lebanese state to conform to the ideas of Hezbollah simply because Lebanese state is impotent when it comes to countering the demands of Hezbollah.

    Please don't start this into an arab-israeli conflict debate, fact is without the resistance in Lebanon we'd see far more human rights abuses!

    Yes, you are quite right. Hezbollah's 'resistance'  resulted in indiscriminate attacks on civilians which amounts to war crimes. Therefore according to you war crimes had to be committed in order minimize the amount of human rights abuses.
    Which is the sort of logic Pentagon uses when they use drones to target Taliban commanders in Pakistan. Sure, such attacks are wrong but when one looks at the big picture one sees that they actually decrease the capability of Taliban to  wage war against Americans  in Afghanistan and to plot terrorist attack worldwide. Or so we are told ...
    You sure you are a Lefty? You often sound like a Neocon.

    How? What if there are members who believe Islam needs to be reformed? What if they oppose executions? How many MB members have you talked to? All of them?

    I do not need to talk to a single member of BNP or EDF in order to know that they are full of shit and that I wouldn't touch their political organization with a stick. Looking at the values they subscribe to as a matter of party policy is quite enough.

    Btw do check what liberalism actually means. It might give you an idea why 'liberals within MB' is an oxymoron. Unless you are cool with 'liberals within BNP' and such.

    I rejoice to learn that you don't have an IQ south of ten, but one can be forgiven for thinking so when you charge that Hezbollah is no more distinct from the Taliban.

    Why do I notice that debating you often involves you presenting a strawman argument?

    Would you mind pointing out where exactly billy (or me for that matter) argued that all political Islam amounts to the same (i.e. 'Talibanism'), that it's not multifaceted and multilayered?
    All I claimed is that Hezbollah is an organisation with reactionary ideology.


    inb4 'pond life', 'sheep trying to bark', 'IQ south of ten' etc.



  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #63 - May 15, 2011, 02:16 PM

    Quote
    Quote
    Quote from: olweasel on May 14, 2011, 08:39 PM
    I'm interested in what Aphrodite thinks of Muhammad Iqbal.


    I don't know enough about him to really say, I think I've only read two of his poems and a little about him lol I'd say he was a sort of open minded, reformist muslim who wanted a nation based on Islamic principles but not a theocracy (if that makes sense) kinda like how Turkey is today; secular state with a govt. of an Islamic background.

    Does anyone know about his views of non-muslims, dhimmis, jizya and stuff?


     Damn..  these modern Pakistani  women know nothing ...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh28kNUZg5M

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6H1TIXQNGc

    They just tak..talk..talk.. errrr what a noise..

    Put every one under Burkha..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #64 - May 15, 2011, 03:24 PM

    Furthermore why do you think that UN accused Hezbollah of destabilizing the region and causing harm to Lebanese civilians? That would be the very same population that Hezbollah is apparently supposed to protect but their actions amount to the exact opposite.
    Besides when it comes to Lebanese politics I suppose that you are fully aware of the fact that it is organized along sectarian lines where respective parties try and stay out of what is perceived as 'territory' (in terms of respective 'communities') of their coalition partners.
    Hezbollah's influence in Lebanon is malignant which is exactly what is to be expected of a reactionary group such as Hezbollah but I am fully aware of the fact that is a political reality and therefore unfortunately unavoidable.



    The UN didn't accuse Hezbollah of anything, it was the UNSC--they're the last people to judge anyone. Hezbollah represents the majority of shias so of course its going to be sectarian, do you expect salafis to vote for them? Lebanon hasn't really recovered from the civil war and brutal Israeli occupation there's still a lot of sectarian hostility but BECAUSE of groups like Hezbollah who are willing to work with others its starting to die down.


    Forgive me for not believing my eyes when people start praising organisations such as Hezbollah or Hamas in an all to easy and uncritical acceptance of such groups as representing progressive forms of struggle although their ideology is explicitly anti-egalitarian.
    I am no expert when it comes to Lebanese politics but I do know that a very existence of a group that is as powerful as Hezbollah and basically constitutes a state within a state puts immense pressure on the Lebanese state to conform to the ideas of Hezbollah simply because Lebanese state is impotent when it comes to countering the demands of Hezbollah.



    Hezbollah did start off as an Iranian inspired group wanting an Islamic revolution in Lebanon but quickly realised it'd never work, they've been around for decades and haven't challenged the lebanese state even though they could probably defeat the lebanese army.


    Yes, you are quite right. Hezbollah's 'resistance'  resulted in indiscriminate attacks on civilians which amounts to war crimes. Therefore according to you war crimes had to be committed in order minimize the amount of human rights abuses.
    Which is the sort of logic Pentagon uses when they use drones to target Taliban commanders in Pakistan. Sure, such attacks are wrong but when one looks at the big picture one sees that they actually decrease the capability of Taliban to  wage war against Americans  in Afghanistan and to plot terrorist attack worldwide. Or so we are told ...
    You sure you are a Lefty? You often sound like a Neocon.



    Stop twisting my words, would I prefer Hezbollah having the capability of armed resistance without having to resort to indiscriminate attacks (jet fighters, modern missiles etc)? Yes. Unfortunately they don't and have to rely on rockets that have been around since WW2 OR they could just sit around, delude themselves with 'peace' talks, watch as more land is annexed and more massacres are committed. If you were in their position would you do the latter? I think not. There's a big difference between committing acts violence in self-defence and violence as an aggressor, if the US was targeting Taliban commanders in self-defence then you could compare them to Hezbollah.


    I do not need to talk to a single member of BNP or EDF in order to know that they are full of shit and that I wouldn't touch their political organization with a stick. Looking at the values they subscribe to as a matter of party policy is quite enough.



    And what is the party of policy the MB? Taken from their site: "The MB has confirmed that it does not object to the election of women or Copts in cabinet however it does not believe it would be appropriate to nominate a woman or a Copt as head of the party."

    The latter part of the statement is a disappointment however its an improvement even from the past 'secular' regime where copts were marginalised so much.

    Btw do check what liberalism actually means. It might give you an idea why 'liberals within MB' is an oxymoron. Unless you are cool with 'liberals within BNP' and such.



    I'm well aware of what it means, but you seem to think all Islamists are the same so I understand why you disagree. You're likening the MB to the BNP? LOL!
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #65 - May 15, 2011, 03:53 PM

    The UN didn't accuse Hezbollah of anything, it was the UNSC--they're the last people to judge anyone.

    It was actually Ban Ki-moon who accused Hezbollah in his report to the UN Security Council on Lebanon.

    But that is completely besides the point.

    You claimed that Hezbollah does not 'persecute others' and I provided ample evidence to the contrary all the way to accusations that Hezbollah committed war crimes.


    Hezbollah did start off as an Iranian inspired group wanting an Islamic revolution in Lebanon but quickly realised it'd never work, they've been around for decades and haven't challenged the lebanese state even though they could probably defeat the lebanese army.

    Thanks for providing additional evidence to the point I was trying to make.

    The very fact that Hezbollah could defeat the Lebanese army is a form of pressure and intimidation exerted by Hezbollah onto the Lebanese coalition government when it comes to possible negotiations. It's a form of power projection.


    Stop twisting my words ...

    I did no such thing. You dug your own hole. What I wrote was a logical conclusion to your assertion.

    , would I prefer Hezbollah having the capability of armed resistance without having to resort to indiscriminate attacks (jet fighters, modern missiles etc)? Yes. Unfortunately they don't and have to rely on rockets that have been around since WW2 OR they could just sit around, delude themselves with 'peace' talks, watch as more land is annexed and more massacres are committed. If you were in their position would you do the latter? I think not.

    Irrelevant. That's an appeal to emotions.
    What you are actually implying here is that any form of resistance (including indiscriminate targeting of civilians which is a war crime) is OK provided that the resisting party does not have access to sophisticated weapons. Which is clearly nonsense because it means that International Humanitarian Law does not apply to such situations simply because the party in question does not posses adequate weapons.


    There's a big difference between committing acts violence in self-defence and violence as an aggressor ...

    Really? Says who? Could you post a few links to appropriate sections of International Humanitarian Law where such distinctions are defined to back up your claims?
    Fact is that attacks perpetuated by Hezbollah were intentionally, purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets. And that Hezbollah (and apparently you as well) perceives such attacks as 'defence' in no way minimizes the criminality of what Hezbollah was doing.


    ... if the US was targeting Taliban commanders in self-defence then you could compare them to Hezbollah.

    US do perceive targeting of Taliban commanders as a 'self defence' in much the same way that Hezbollah perceived targeting of Israeli civilians as 'self defence'. I explained why in my previous post.


    And what is the party of policy the MB? Taken from their site: "The MB has confirmed that it does not object to the election of women or Copts in cabinet however it does not believe it would be appropriate to nominate a woman or a Copt as head of the party."

    The latter part of the statement is a disappointment however its an improvement even from the past 'secular' regime where copts were marginalised so much.

    So what? Is that supposed to transform MB into a progressive power or what? That's not nearly enough. My claim was that MB are a bunch of reactionaries and I do think that to be a fair assessment.


    ... but you seem to think all Islamists are the same so I understand why you disagree. You're likening the MB to the BNP? LOL!

    Do you have issues with reading comprehension?

    In my previous post I specifically refuted such implications and explained that I do however think that all Islamist that I know of promote reactionary values. No more, no less.

    If you claim that I previously asserted that 'all Islamists are the same' than I would ask you to substantiate such a claim with a quote from my previous posts. Thanks.

    Btw where did you get the "you're likening the MB to the BNP" from? Please re-read the relevant passage and try to understand it.
    What I said is that I do not need to personally conduct interviews with all members of BNP to know that they are a bunch of fuckheads. Just looking at the values they are trying to promote is enough.

  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #66 - May 15, 2011, 04:24 PM


    Do you have issues with reading comprehension?


    No..No.. no  Kenan .,    Aphrodite  reads pretty well she understands pretty well., anyways.. Here is the videos that some of you may like to watch w.r.t to Allama Muhammad Iqbal.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO_SPKFP78E

    watch it Aphrodite., there is a guy in it who is related to Muhammad Iqbal....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #67 - May 15, 2011, 04:30 PM


    The Muslim Brotherhood are a deeply reactionary political movement whose central tenets and raison d'etre is all about the priveliging of Islam as an organisational power for society. They have a long term vision for their movement. But just because some are less urgently reactionary, doesn't mean they are liberal as we understand the word. It just means they are gradualists, believing in a slow methodology to power, towards the endgame of an Islamist state, and an Islamicising of society.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #68 - May 15, 2011, 05:09 PM

    The Muslim Brotherhood are a deeply reactionary political movement whose central tenets and raison d'etre is all about the priveliging of Islam as an organisational power for society. They have a long term vision for their movement. But just because some are less urgently reactionary, doesn't mean they are liberal as we understand the word. It just means they are gradualists, believing in a slow methodology to power, towards the endgame of an Islamist state, and an Islamicising of society.



     A  careful look in to the early Islam tells me "Islam itself was Political movement" reactionary to what was there in and around Arabia before the birth of Islam.


    Again the following liks are for those who would like to learn about the "Life and contributions of Allama Iqbal"

    The Greatest Poet of East – Allama Iqbal on Islam

    Like saints like offerings

    Islamic Intellectuals In The Modern Times

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #69 - May 15, 2011, 05:12 PM

    A  careful look in to the early Islam tells me "Islam itself was Political movement" reactionary to what was there in and around Arabia before the birth of Islam.

    Don't you think that it was actually progressive - in certain aspects at least when judging from the perspective of 7th century Arabia?
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #70 - May 15, 2011, 05:23 PM

    Don't you think that it was actually progressive - in certain aspects at least when judging from the perspective of 7th century Arabia?

    off course it is progress when any one questions existing political process and corrects it with reference to the time ., But this process of questioning MUST CONTINUE.

    Unfortunately, Islam and Muslims/Muslims intellectuals stopped it right from the start and stagnated whole thing  for 1400 years......

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #71 - May 15, 2011, 05:36 PM

    Damn..  these modern Pakistani  women know nothing ...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh28kNUZg5M

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6H1TIXQNGc

    They just tak..talk..talk.. errrr what a noise..

    Put every one under Burkha..


    Oi I think I know more than your average British Pakistani and I'm only 50% pak  Tongue

    No..No.. no  Kenan .,    Aphrodite  reads pretty well she understands pretty well., anyways.. Here is the videos that some of you may like to watch w.r.t to Allama Muhammad Iqbal.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO_SPKFP78E

    watch it Aphrodite., there is a guy in it who is related to Muhammad Iqbal....


    Only watched the 1st min, I'll watch it later (I have to listen to urdu a few times before I understand everything) I know that Ali Jinnah wanted Islamic banking even though he wanted a secular state:

    Quote
    We must work our destiny in our own way and present to the world an economic system based on true Islamic concept of equality of manhood and social justice. We will thereby be fulfilling our mission as Muslims and giving to humanity the message of peace which alone can save it and secure the welfare, happiness and prosperity of mankind.


    Speech at the opening ceremony of State Bank of Pakistan, Karachi July 1, 1948
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #72 - May 15, 2011, 05:39 PM

    See, that's just dawah blather. Its all about the prosletysation of Islam, full of rhetorical hot air: 'message of peace' (Islam) which alone can 'save' humankind.

    edit: I thought that was an extract from a speech by the other guy. I think Jinnah said alot of things to alot of different constituencies. Pakistani liberals use him to say that Pakistan was meant to be a secular state, those who disagree paint him in a more orthodox Islamic light.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #73 - May 15, 2011, 05:43 PM

    ................ I know that Ali Jinnah wanted Islamic banking even though he wanted a secular state:

    Speech at the opening ceremony of State Bank of Pakistan, Karachi July 1, 1948


    A link for that speech

    Some of his speeches

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I13RnuzNKE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G20Wzck-SLw


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ifg00Nq1k

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #74 - May 15, 2011, 05:48 PM

    It was actually Ban Ki-moon who accused Hezbollah in his report to the UN Security Council on Lebanon.

    You claimed that Hezbollah does not 'persecute others' and I provided ample evidence to the contrary all the way to accusations that Hezbollah committed war crimes.



    I think there’s a difference between persecution which to me means you oppress people whom you have control over (citizens in Lebanon) and war crimes. Now if you think they’re the same then would you agree that the biggest persecutors today are what is commonly known as the ‘the west’ ?


    The very fact that Hezbollah could defeat the Lebanese army is a form of pressure and intimidation exerted by Hezbollah onto the Lebanese coalition government when it comes to possible negotiations. It's a form of power projection.



    I agree Hezbollah do use their armed strength for political gains but I don’t think they intimidate anyone, after the civil war all militias were disbanded except for Hezbollah because the state and the people recognised their existence was (still is) legitimate.

    What you are actually implying here is that any form of resistance (including indiscriminate targeting of civilians which is a war crime) is OK provided that the resisting party does not have access to sophisticated weapons. Which is clearly nonsense because it means that International Humanitarian Law does not apply to such situations simply because the party in question does not posses adequate weapons.



    No its not OK but it isn’t the biggest problem or crime, the reason why such actions happen is. Lol if International Humanitarian law was applied justly there would be no reason for Hezbollah to exist.

    Really? Says who? Could you post a few links to appropriate sections of International Humanitarian Law where such distinctions are defined to back up your claims?



    Says me, I don’t need some bureaucrat who’s never had to deal with violence tell me what I can and can’t do to protect myself. I’ll do whatever is necessary, the safety of Israeli citizens is the responsibility of Israel. If it values the lives of its citizens it would stop its occupation of Lebanon. The onus of the endless violence ending is on Israel and no-one else.

    US do perceive targeting of Taliban commanders as a 'self defence' in much the same way that Hezbollah perceived targeting of Israeli civilians as 'self defence'. I explained why in my previous post.



    I don’t care what the US or Hezbollah perceive, I say what I see from my POV and I've never thought of anyone (in this case the US) using violence in a country (Pakistan) to protect their occupying forces in a neighbouring country as people who are defending themselves.

    So what? Is that supposed to transform MB into a progressive power or what? That's not nearly enough. My claim was that MB are a bunch of reactionaries and I do think that to be a fair assessment.



    No it's not enough but it shows there’s some hope.

    Do you have issues with reading comprehension?


    Sorry was busy and distracted, I just buried my cat  Cry I just skimmed through your post, didn’t read the paragraph where you responded to MAB.

    Btw where did you get the "you're likening the MB to the BNP" from?



    You did say “It might give you an idea why 'liberals within MB' is an oxymoron. Unless you are cool with 'liberals within BNP' and such.” which to me implies you’re likening the MB to the BNP.
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #75 - May 15, 2011, 05:54 PM

    See, that's just dawah blather. Its all about the prosletysation of Islam, full of rhetorical hot air: 'message of peace' (Islam) which alone can 'save' humankind.

    edit: I thought that was an extract from a speech by the other guy. I think Jinnah said alot of things to alot of different constituencies. Pakistani liberals use him to say that Pakistan was meant to be a secular state, those who disagree paint him in a more orthodox Islamic light.






    He was a shia who drank alcohol and ate pork (someone told me about the pork thing, not entirely sure) can you get any less orthodox? lol

    The religious minded ones, who chanted things like "What is the meaning of Pakistan? There is no god but Allah"  Roll Eyes ironically opposed the idea of separate nation but probably jumped on the bandwagon when they realised it was going to become a reality.
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #76 - May 15, 2011, 08:27 PM

    You guys have to realize., times were different., in those days., friends become enemies., neighbors killed each other.. one side Islam other side hinduism funny thing is it is all same genes ..same culture.,  But for the sake of religious politics in confusion,  in anger people say many things that  they don't mean..  The worst sufferers being those families that had both religions with in the family..

    Many of you may not know Muhammad Ali Jinnah  family  was indeed has hindu roots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_Jinnah  
    Quote
    His grandfather, Poonja Gokuldas Meghji,[18] was a Hindu Bhatia Rajput from Paneli village in Gondal state in Kathiawar. Jinnah's ancestors were Hindu Rajputs; his grandfather had converted to Islam.[17] Jinnah's family belonged to the Ismaili Khoja branch of Shi'a Islam,[2] though Jinnah later converted to Twelver Khoja Shi'a Islam.

    and his own daughter Dina Wadia  &  Rattanbai Petit lives in India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dina_Wadia  and their son   Nusli Wadia is one of the richest Indians. Mr. Jinnah left his own baby daughter for the sake of Muslims of subcontinent but he never realized that     in 21st century  he will lose  everything  including his baby Pakistan..

    Anyways   What are these two talking??

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfAjF2icVNw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wLMVCXfcvY

    Sure they are trying to Isolate Pakistan..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_deMv2H3yY&NR=1

    I want to keep the country I want to  change The name of the  country and I want to change its ideology..

    And I don't like Karazai and I can not find any one who can replace him...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #77 - May 15, 2011, 11:44 PM

    y
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #78 - May 15, 2011, 11:57 PM

    I didn't say that.

    And you know where that places your score in the IQ schematic.

    Come now Willy, why must we refer to people's IQ? I'm trying to conduct this convo on a lofty plane. You must apologise.

    IQ?  what IQ? Bisons don't have Iq and don't  use that "I",  Bisons  make sounds   lol..

    Well  our bison is slightly different guy  he smokes cigars and  flirts  with mark twain's linguistic vigor  while cigar smoke coming out of his ears..

    Pumping smoke out of one's ears helps fumigate the brain. Think of it as a cognitive sauna. I recommend it.

    Which is why the Bision's grey cells rejuvenate periodically and why yours, half asleep at the best of times, perish without a struggle. Learn from me.
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #79 - May 16, 2011, 12:11 AM

    Like a Muslim apologist i know said it:

    DemoCRAZY (get it People-crazy?) is man-made law. We follow Allah's sharia AND we listen to the ulema (notice that they are also men). Did anyone say man-made laws? Cheesy

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #80 - May 16, 2011, 12:19 AM

    ^ You must quit laughing or I will punish you.

    But I like your handle. The blind Syrian poet was a riot. In my next life I wanna be his gay lover. What about you my sweet?
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #81 - May 16, 2011, 07:10 AM

    So yea how much longer till we can see most Muslims nations have become Secular Humanistic Nations?
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #82 - May 16, 2011, 01:10 PM

    @billy:
    Come now Willy, why must we refer to people's IQ? I'm trying to conduct this convo on a lofty plane. You must apologise.

    @yeezevee
    Pumping smoke out of one's ears helps fumigate the brain. Think of it as a cognitive sauna. I recommend it.

    Which is why the Bision's grey cells rejuvenate periodically and why yours, half asleep at the best of times, perish without a struggle. Learn from me.


    Huh!??   Something is wrong with you Bison

    You write rubbish and billy has to apologize?
    and I need to learn from you?  

    what is there to learn from you bison? this ?
    Quote
    ...But I like your handle....
    .... In my next life I wanna be his gay lover....
    ....Are you ready my cherry blossom?..
    .....why do you wanna be an attention whore? You better stop. I will punish you.....
     ................Are you that desperate to see me unfold the Procreational Meat? ...............


    Damn ignored by 6 members of the forum., That is record I think., you are worse than me and you want me to learn for you?

    You talk too much., talk same thing again., I am going to use Quran on you  and..and..
    Quote
    Koran 24:31 And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

    Castrate you and make a males slave with hole there and send you to  allah heaven along with houries..

    Huh!  ..Male servants free of physical needs......  I wonder whether they were born like that or they were Castrated?

    help me allah help me here...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #83 - May 16, 2011, 02:52 PM

    The Muslim Brotherhood are a deeply reactionary political movement whose central tenets and raison d'etre is all about the priveliging of Islam as an organisational power for society. They have a long term vision for their movement. But just because some are less urgently reactionary, doesn't mean they are liberal as we understand the word. It just means they are gradualists, believing in a slow methodology to power, towards the endgame of an Islamist state, and an Islamicising of society.




    Come to think of it,all this is so much like skillful anal sex. Generous lubrication,slow insertion and before you know it, operations have begun in earnest!Even if the guy is your lover[more so if it's someone like MAB] it's highly dangerous,severe organ damage can't be ruled out Lmao
    Notice how they seek to tame 'wild ' women;from nothing to hijabs,and to humour those who are still addicted to kafir life styles colourful,designer[never mind that it's haram!] hijabs,then designer burkhas and finally drab black full burkhas[halal]. Voila! the 'bitches' have been properly tamed to serve Allah's cause!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #84 - May 16, 2011, 03:16 PM


    Anyone else have a clue what hypocricifier is saying  Huh?


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #85 - May 16, 2011, 03:20 PM

    Anyone else have a clue what hypocricifier is saying  Huh?



     Grin Grin Grin


    I thought I am the DUMBEST GUY in cemb., you are dumber than me billy  ...  lol..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #86 - May 18, 2011, 06:27 PM

    Seems likes the MB are going the same way as the Islamists in turkey:

    Quote
    Islamist presidential candidate declares conversion permissible

    Abdel Moneim Abouel Fotouh, an Islamist presidential candidate and reformist member of the Muslim Brotherhood, dropped a bombshell Sunday by stressing freedom of belief and unequivocally condoning conversion between Islam and Christianity.

    “Nobody should interfere if a Christian decides to convert to Islam or a Muslim decides to leave Islam and become Christian,” Aboul Fotouh said in an interview with a widely-viewed nightly talk show broadcast on a private satellite channel. “Forcing people to adopt a particular faith will lead to the rise of hypocrites.”

    By acknowledging the right to convert from Islam to another religion, Aboul Fotouh sets himself at odds with most Islamists and Muslim jurists, who hold that ridda, or apostasy, is punishable by death.


    It seems to me that he's trying to differentiate between 'religious apostasy' and 'political apostasy' (treason against a state) which is what some Islamic scholars (past and present) have stated:

    Quote
    Aboul Fotouh hinted at arguments advanced by some Muslim reformers that studied the historical context of such an injunction and came up with the conclusion that apostates were killed during the early years of Islam not because they quit the religion but because they carried arms against Muslims upon conversion. To Abouel Fotouh, in contemporary times, this particular injunction can be applied  to those who commit “high treason” against their state or societies.


    http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/439184
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #87 - May 18, 2011, 06:56 PM

    Anyone else have a clue what hypocricifier is saying  Huh?




    Frankly! I am disappointed,but I am happy yeezeveee caught on to what I was driving at.
    I was just amplifying what you had said. Note what I had underlined in the quote.
    Further clues--gradualists, slow methodology.
    The burkha thing is a fine example of their stealth technique.They are slowly but surely moving towards compulsory full burkhas to 'liberate women'.
    The hypocritical designer burkhas /hijabs  are  temporary aberrations in supposedly following Allah's commands for women.
    As soon as the situation is under their control they will show their true colours and would want strict compliance,by which time hopefully they expect the women to have lost all their marbles and submit meekly without the 'so called feminist ' noises.

    In urdu/hindi this would be called:

    Zor ka jhatka dheerese lagna


    A very slow burning fuse ensuring that people are in blissful denial!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #88 - May 17, 2012, 01:10 PM

    ALLAMAH IQBAL    ON DEMOCRACY‑

    Quote
    The Western democratic system is the same old orchestra

    Its notes have nothing but the melodies of Caesar

    The demon of despotism is treading the path of democracy

    Thou considereth it to be the fairy of freedom

    The constituent assembly reforms grant concessions and rights

    In the Western medical system tastes are  sweet but the effects are sporadic

    The heat of the debates of assemblies! May God protect us!  This too is a sham quarrel to deceive others

    Thou considereth this mirage of attractions to be a garden  O simpleton! thou considereth the cage to be the nest”


    Iqbal. by Dr. Sir Muhammad Bang-i-Dara. Shaikh Mubarak Ali, Lahore, Pakistan, Third Edition (1924). p. 296.


    Thou seekest the treasures of unfathomed wisdom from people of mean nature

     

    Quote
    Surely, ants cannot attain the wisdom of a Sulaiman  Flee from the Mechanisations of democracy, follow an experienced sage

     For the brains of two hundred donkeys cannot produce the wisdom of one man.  ............ ..ALLAMAH IQBAL


    Quote
    The West has founded the democratic system  It has loosened the rope from the demon’s neck

    A host of people are running like robbers  While many hungry mouths are running for a loaf of bread

    One group lies in ambush for another one May God help it if these are its ways Convey the message from me to the West

    That the populace is an unsheathed sword.    ............ ..ALLAMAH IQBAL


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Democracy and Islam
     Reply #89 - May 17, 2012, 01:22 PM

    ALLAMAH IQBAL    ON DEMOCRACY‑

     
    Quote
     Some European sage has unveiled this secret   Though wise men keep these secrets concealed


    Democracy is a form of government in which  People are counted but their worth is not assessed....

     
    Hast thou not seen the Western democratic system  Whose face is bright but the inside is dark; darker than Changiz?


    We have ourselves bestowed democratic role on monarchy  Then has man become somewhat self conscious and self cognizan




    Cast them away into the street
    The eggs of the new civilization are rotten
    Elections, membership, council, presidency
    Sham freedom has invented strange nooses
    The carpenter has also been scraped
    Very sharp are the Europe’s planes


     ............ ..ALLAMAH IQBAL


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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