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Theme Changer

 Topic: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations

 (Read 11183 times)
  • Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #30 - July 03, 2011, 03:32 AM

    OFF TOPIC:

    @ Allat

    Quote
    There are women like the ones who recently organized a campaign for women to drive cars themselves in Saudi Arabia.


    The recent campaign for women driving was hatched within the gates of Ministry of Interior. Reason? To give the people something to get preoccupied about, instead of silly trivial issues like fighting C-O-R-R-U-P-T-I-O-N.

    The infuriating thing is: everyone fell for it!

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #31 - July 03, 2011, 03:33 AM

    Quote
    debunker

    The recent campaign for women driving was hatched within the gates of Ministry of Interior. Reason? To give the people something to get preoccupied about, instead of silly trivial issues like fighting C-O-R-R-U-P-T-I-O-N.

    The infuriating thing is: everyone fell for it!


    That really sucks
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #32 - July 03, 2011, 03:34 AM

    That's part of reason why women's liberation is so hard to bring to Muslim countries because many of them are third world countries.


    What do you think that means? I mean really, it's a convenient phrase, what do you think it means to call a country a "third world" country? Is it money? Because, China, Japan and many middle eastern countries are some of the wealthiest nations on earth. So what do you think it means when someone calls a country a "third world country"?

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #33 - July 03, 2011, 03:34 AM

    OFF TOPIC:

    @ Allat

    The recent campaign for women driving was hatched within the gates of Ministry of Interior. Reason? To give the people something to get preoccupied about, instead of silly trivial issues like fighting C-O-R-R-U-P-T-I-O-N.

    The infuriating thing is: everyone fell for it!


    Not me, and not any (non-neoliberal) feminists I know Wink

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #34 - July 03, 2011, 03:38 AM

    same in parts of Christian Africa too, but I still think its a problem that disproportionately is affected by Islam

    of course you have your (different) reasons for blaming Islam for everything
    Quote
    and what do you think is the root cause of this

    why we're third wolrd countries? Poverty, lack of education, and rampant corruption. Even the wealthier Arab/Muslim countries have become wealthy only recently, so they need tons of time to catch up, but surely corruption, if it persists, won't allow us to advance at all.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #35 - July 03, 2011, 03:47 AM

    I'm not so sure it can be classed the same as the women's lib movement of the 19th/20th century because religion is involved.  This isn;t just a struggle against men controlling women, its a struggle against a religion that is actually pretty fucking solid as a foundation for many of them.

    I mean even thought people were probably more religous back the UK when the women's lib movement began, secular thinking had already begun to seep in, before the war.

    Infact many of the women who led the fight came from non comformist families who had educated their daughters since they didn't adhere to hard core religious attitudes towards their women.

    Religion is involved a lot deeper than it was with women's lib in the west.


    I know a few women who were a part of the womens lib movements in the 1960's in Australia.
    All the ones i know are atheist education was the key to their disbelief and to this day all of them ridicule religion.
    I think it was 1971 when the census said write none if no religion and that census saw a 7 fold increase in those without religion we have elected numerous Prime Ministers who are atheist.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_Australia

    A lot of the women in the womens liberation movement were atheist/agnostic so they could reject oudated beliefs.
    The contraceptive pill also played a major role in giving women freedom in the west.

    The women defying the driving ban in SA recently is great news IMO all they have to do is expand into other areas.






  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #36 - July 03, 2011, 03:53 AM

    So firstly, what's required is for people with a christian/neoliberal agenda to stop telling muslim women how they will save them. Those of us in the west so concerned about muslim women's rights need to look at our own (western) cultures, and teach by example, instead.

    Women AND men, especially those from muslim-majority cultures who are egalitarian minded need to speak up and write openly about gender inequalities in the places we originated from. We need to do this without forgetting that as human beings, muslims do not want to be condescended to either. Presenting a balanced POV that acknowledges the flaws of western cultures along with pointing out the gender inequities in muslim-majority countries, is crucial. E.g. if we ONLY talk about how the burka is oppressive, but never even mention the long list of gender norms that women in the neoliberal west subject themselves to, from constant dieting, to botox injections, etc., then we are simply being either ethnocentric or we're lacking in self-reflection.

    And yes, secularism/agnosticism or at least a more spiritual and less ritualistic version of Islam will have to take hold on a large scale before things will change for women. This, however, will NOT happen while christians criticize islam and muslims in an attempt to fulfill their own sense of supremacism. That actually can only backfire.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #37 - July 03, 2011, 05:35 AM

    I agree with allat , berbs and aphrodite .
    You're gonna hear this a lot but Islam is one of the factors that is stopping them from moving forward , for example the rise in fundamentalism stopped secular countires like Iran from moving forward in rights for women but in fact go backwards . Islam creates this facade that women have 'rights' and are truely liberated  , women in muslim majority countires women are blinded because of this and I was at one point .
    Some muslims  also see womens rights as something attriubuted with non muslims only(which is to bad them) .

     I think women need to be conscious of their position and realise more needs to be done,  although this isn't the case with all individuals Yeah like aphrodite said the revolutions in the middle east is perfect timing for a demand for change , slowly of course .
    I think men need to be educated about these things too  , and women need to organise and. campaign more . Which makes me think would they be successful if their protests were peaceful or a little more radical , I can't help but think radicalism helps the political outcome a little bit or least get more media attention .

    "its fashionable to be an ex Muslim these days"
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #38 - July 03, 2011, 09:23 AM

    Yeah, there is that angle as well CD, Islam promotes itself as being THE religion for women's lib.

    Infact Mohammed is called the first feminist Cheesy all because he stopped a few practises, ie female infanticide, te marrying of your brother's widow.  Islam also claims that he gave women a right to their own property and their own inheritance that no man could take off them.

    I guess Khadija who existed before Islam, was an exception to the rule since she already had her own propery, inheritance, successful business and married herself off.   Roll Eyes

    But sadly, because it is continually shoved down our throats as being feminist we kind of grew up (muslim women) believing the nonsense.  Also it was easy to see how it stood above the west for so long, since well actually women in the west didn't even have those rights to protect them.

    They could not own property, could not work, could not keep earnings if they did, did not have a say in who they married, could not instigate a divorce for any reason whatsoever, whereas in Islam women 'could'  (not that they could. but the law says they can).

    It took growing up, and learning to say "so what if the west was behind Islam once, it is ahead of Islam now", because it is a so what situation.  But until that moment in which it is ok mentally to recognise that the west outpaces Islam on human rights, and it has nothing to do with shaitan, until that moment you will have hijabis who aren't even allowed out of the house most of the time, telling you that Islam gives them rights.

    So, on the one hand you have plenty of textual support for stomping all over the rights of women, and plenty of urban legends about how Islam is for women, so it's going to be a difficult battle to win.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #39 - July 03, 2011, 09:44 AM

    Well on that topic my good friend put out a wonderful article to day w.r.t Pakistan., in it Nadeem writes
    Quote
    Change is in the air. One can now safely suggest that the days of the current PPP-led coalition government are numbered. The truly democratic forces of Pakistan seemed to have had enough. This government has broken all records of corruption, bad governance, intrigues and javelin throwing. Ok, so the breaking of the javelin throwing record is not such a bad thing, but still.

    Quote
    As Plato said, ‘If a record breaking javelin thrower is also a record breaking corrupt person, then he is a record breaking javelin thrower who is a corrupt person.’ Deep stuff this. But since the great Muslim scholar, Al-Ghazali said, ‘Muslims should refrain from indulging in Greek philosophy because it creates doubts in the minds of the faithful’, I will not go into any more detail about Plato. After all why do we need Greek philosophy, when we have our own, right?

    For example, that insightful modern Islamic scholar, Abul Ala Maududi, has written numerous chapters on javelin throwers. And he is the man we should be referring to in our quest to make Pakistan a truly democratic Islamic emirate republic welfare state. In his book, ‘Men are from Mars, Women do not Exist,’ another famous Muslim scholar, Jalal Khan (PhD, MBBS, LLB, LOL), is said to have predicted the ascent of a secular (thus corrupt) political party in a future Islamic Republic in the Indo-Pak subcontinent.


    Many believe Jalal was predicting the rise of the PPP in Pakistan. They use the following quote from his book to prove this. Jalal writes: ‘In the century to come, there shall rise a so-called Islamic republic in which a secular and corrupt party of wrongful Muslims would announce, Billie Jean’s not my lover …’ So why did we not heed Jalal’s warning? Religious scholars like Maududi, Sayyid Qutb and Junaid Jamshed kept pleading in their voluminous writings, lectures and chants that we should carefully pay attention to Jalal’s works.

     .......................
    That’s why the country’s gallant armed forces have had to step in on numerous occasions to save Pakistan from becoming a stinking den of corruption and an unholy nightmare where women go out without a veil and have to work alongside men (and some even dance), and where men are thus forced to look at such women. This puts all kinds of unclean thoughts in the men’s otherwise clean heads.
    Quote
    But not all civilian politicians have been bad. For example, Nawaz Sharif, before being misguided by Robert Ludlum novels, was once an honourable and loyal servant of the defenders of the faith of the Islamic republic of the emirates of democratic welfare state of Pakistan. Then there is Altaf Hussain, the charismatic, dynamic and magnetic leader of the MQM who has been brave enough to finally accept his party’s folly of not recognising the most devastating spectre that is haunting the republic: Dengue fever.


    It is a shame that our corrupt (thus civilian) leaders do not have the guts to stand up against dengue fever that is killing trillions of innocent Pakistani (Muslims) in the north-western areas. The mosquitoes carrying this fever are trained by the Americans and yet we remain quiet? Don’t we know that once we stop these mosquitoes our economy will drastically pick up, there will be peace and harmony, crime and drug addiction will be eradicated, there will be plenty of food, and jobs (only for males, of course), and there will be an abundance of good homely wives who will cook yummy food for their husbands, and Pakistan will once and for all become the true bastion of faith.
    Quote

    Many dismiss this as a fantasy. But not great men like Imran Khan and Munawar Hussain and Cat Stevens.
    It is people like these who are the future of Pakistan’s democracy. By democracy I mean six wise men (preferably four soldiers and two soldier-like civilians) deciding our fate through a six-man-consensus and lots and lots of beheadings. Look at the great kingdom of Arabia. Look what regular beheadings of bad men and women there has done for them. It has given them oil. There is scientific proof of this. Dr. Ali Azmat has that proof. Read his latest book, ‘My Tind is a UFO Landing Sight,’ to find out just how beheadings create vast reserves of oil.

      .......................................

    So are you a mosquito lover? Don’t be one, and join the jihad of true soldier-like democrats against corrupt javelin throwers and let’s turn Pakistan into a true urban middle-class IPhone loving, God-fearing, burger chomping and American-flag burning Islamic republic emirates democratic welfare state. Amen.

    Yes.. Islam wants  Islamic republic emirates democratic welfare state., other wise there will be infidels doing mischief in the lands...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #40 - July 03, 2011, 01:16 PM

    I am actually even though i am a "filthy" Murtad. I am one of those who believe in a reform of Islam - thats why I dont like right-wing critiques of Islam and Muslims. Because those kind of critics are obsessed with the Huntington-doctrine (Clash of Civilizations) and it also lacks pragmatic approach. There are a LOT of academics and even theologians who have a feminist approach towards the religion. Ill mention few of the ones i have read or heard the last 7 years before I left the whole religion.

    Its crucial to remember that the main problem with Islam - is its fundamentals. The problem with Islam is not the fundamentalists (only), but its fundamentals. And when it comes to women rights - the fundamentals are backward. Islam brought - historically (some) women rights and reformed the view of the sexes in the 7th century Arabia. But what was revolutionizing in the 7th century is not revolutionizing in the 21th century. That is the whole point. But mainstream Muslim scholars (and regular Muslims - that means the Mohammed's and Fatima's) still think Islam is best when it comes to women rights.  Is it really? What we see in the so called Ummah is not abuse or corruption of these laws - but implementation of them. Divorce-laws, laws regarding heritage, marriage laws and etc.

    The reformists and feminists which are still struggling and actually trying to make sense of a religion which is quite fucked up from it starts are: Bassam Tibi, Abu Zayd, Amina Wadud, Asma Barlas, Gamal Al Banna, Nawaal El Saadawi and Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na’im. To mention some few of them.

    The similarity between all of these people is that they all sometimes goes out of Islams framework to show how human rights and secularism (for example Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na`im) can be harmonized with Islam. And they all have Mutazilities-tendencies. That is what is needed. Not Al Ghazali. Not Ibn Taymiyyah. Not Yusuf Al Qaradawi. Not Al-Azhar and definetly not the scholars/theoogians in Saudi Arabia.

    This is the only way Islam can survive. The German-Egyptian political scientist Hamed Abdel-Samad said something interesting in a interview with Der Spiegel:

    Quote
    In a sense, Islam is like a drug, like alcohol. A small amount can have a healing and inspiring effect, but when the believer reaches for the bottle of dogmatic faith in every situation, it gets dangerous. This high-proof form of Islam is what I'm talking about. It harms the individual and damages society. It inhibits integration, because this Islam divides the world into friends and enemies, into the faithful and the infidels.


    The traditionalist approach is the one which is killing human beings. Hanging humans from cranes. Condoning subjugation of women. Rationalizing terrorism and etc.

    I recommend you all this website (regarding Islam and feminism):
    http://www.wluml.org/

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #41 - July 03, 2011, 01:25 PM

    So, on the one hand you have plenty of textual support for stomping all over the rights of women, and plenty of urban legends about how Islam is for women, so it's going to be a difficult battle to win.


    It is difficult. It is never easy to reform a religion or change peoples mentality. But there are some "weapons" from Islamic sources that can be used in the battle. If you want most people with you. You have to speak their language (use Islamic framework). And with that i don`t mean to accept or throw away your principles.




    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #42 - July 03, 2011, 01:36 PM

    One more thing:

    I agree with most of what Is said in this thread. But there is something which has to be stressed more. One of the main hindrances of women liberation in the Islamic world is that many of those countries as it is already mentioned are Third World countries, but also because in Islamic traditions its the man/husband/father duty to provide for his family/ the household (a re-interpretation of this duty is needed). So basically the one who control the money - got most (or all) power.

    A true liberation of women is based on an economical liberation. When women can get an education and get a job so they can be independent - you will see the fruits of a true liberation. Muslim women are not liberated before they are financially independent. And in a patriarchal societies with a lot of poverty this is not so simple. The patriarchal values lives on the subjugation of women. And one of the tools is limiting the woman`s right to move - to get an education, to get a job.

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #43 - July 03, 2011, 02:06 PM

    It is difficult. It is never easy to reform a religion or change peoples mentality. But there are some "weapons" from Islamic sources that can be used in the battle. If you want most people with you. You have to speak their language (use Islamic framework). And with that i don`t mean to accept or throw away your principles.


    I agree.

    I always advise people I know who are unable to break away from Islam, how to use Islam to argue if they can.

    So, forced marriage is a no no, and this can be proven with sources.  Stuff like that that can be used to fight from an islamic POV rather than just my one.

    Saying that though, its not always successful, those who wish to hate on women, will use Islam to their advantage.

    Those who don't, will use Islam to their advantage too.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #44 - July 03, 2011, 03:47 PM

    I agree.

    I always advise people I know who are unable to break away from Islam, how to use Islam to argue if they can.

    So, forced marriage is a no no, and this can be proven with sources.  Stuff like that that can be used to fight from an islamic POV rather than just my one.

    Saying that though, its not always successful, those who wish to hate on women, will use Islam to their advantage.

    Those who don't, will use Islam to their advantage too.


    Yeah its what I usually do. I remember telling my dad as a 16 yr old that I'd never be forced into marriage because its unislamic and that if he tried such a thing I'd burn the house down with him in it and read to him hadith that supported my view  grin12

  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #45 - July 03, 2011, 04:31 PM

    Yeah its what I usually do. I remember telling my dad as a 16 yr old that I'd never be forced into marriage because its unislamic and that if he tried such a thing I'd burn the house down with him in it and read to him hadith that supported my view  grin12




     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy  I love the extreme threat too.   Tongue

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #46 - July 03, 2011, 04:38 PM

    I think the forced marriage thing happens very rarely, the Desi families got smarter and started using the emotional blackmail. Even that is starting to fade away. Unless it is a really backward MP family.
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #47 - July 04, 2011, 12:08 AM

    My 2 cents:

    As ChinaDoll said, the Muslim women often don't realise they are getting a rough deal.  They think they are the ones who are free, or at least they think everything that God ordains for them is right and just.  So they happily accept it.
    The following pic says it all:


    So the thing to do is not to try to unbrainwash them, because they are not going to listen to you.  They are immune to infidel lectures.  We need to get Muslims to promote and spread progressive ideas using religious text.  I'm sure there are many hadiths that could be used to promote womens rights etc.  I know using religious text is a double-edged sword but this is the pragmatic approach.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #48 - July 04, 2011, 11:48 AM

    I think the forced marriage .............. Unless it is a really backward MP family.


    Is this you running away from marriage dear King Tut

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGmnUdPl_Kc

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #49 - July 04, 2011, 12:33 PM

    WTF!  mysmilie_977 Lmao



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #50 - July 04, 2011, 01:52 PM

    WTF that was epic! he fucking ran off into the wilderness.
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #51 - July 08, 2011, 10:20 PM

    because they're third world countries.

    by the way, in many parts of Latin America (which is a part of the Christian West) women are treated worse than shit, which is against their laws, of course, but like the OP is probably suggesting, it has to do with the community itself.


    So true. Even in Japan which has almost nothing to do with the religions of book, domestic violence, treating woman badly is a serious issue. It is the customs, traditions

    God = King of Despots
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #52 - July 08, 2011, 11:00 PM

    I can contribute by giving you the example of Turkey.  Following the establishment of Republic, we were secularized and the Islamic identity of the community took a blow. Turks internalized Islam so much that sometimes it is hard to understand where religion ends and customs starts or vice versa. They are mended together. Today, people do most of what they do out of tradition, but whenever Islam offers them a good excuse they never hesitate to spoil it of course. This is of course most obvious in case of women because of the obvious male dominance.

    But what we observed here in Turkey is that, the more we got away from Islamic identity the better our conditions got due to the lessening of excuses to be used. Since we weren't governed with Sharia, there was no religious pressure from the top-mind the exceptions of various other forms of repression -- but yet there is the usual pressure stemming from the cliche male point of view tangled with traditions; for ex; when a husband beats his wife, she can of course go to the police, and people do so and government offers shelter but it is also not unusual to come across situations in which the policemen stand behind for not interfering a family matter or trying to convince the woman not to file a complaint saying: " oh he is your husband, he loves and then he beats, this is normal Driving, school was never banned to women here, Turkish women have the most freedom compared to other fellow Muslim women in the world on a governmental level, the society is more fair to women too (Turkish men have a tendency to spoil their women hehe:D) but they are too abused, beaten, bullied, prevented from for ex. education. The amount of women in such conditions is not minor, and it is mostly observed in rural areas, villages, among the less educated etc. but cities and urban women aren't excluded either.

    So since we have access to education, internet, books, working and so on (on paper and law we have equal rights with men on every aspect), women are becoming more and more conscious of their rights and wishes. They see the good examples and demand the same. I have witnessed so many women in my own extended family who have educated men into being more decent guys who respect the wish of their women both religiously and socially; they even managed to transform some of those logs into romantic men who brings a bouquet home every week Tongue. Some did this by affection, communication, some did this in nasty ways but they did it. Blood runs strong in the women of my family Tongue

    Sorry I never can keep it short and simple. So here is my suggestions on what can be done:

    1- Try to raise awareness both in women and men through various means such as media, or one o one sessions if need be. I say in women too, because there are many women who seem to be liking their lives as slaves. They are brainwashed, we should let hem know that there are better options out there. In men because I have seen some men to stop their stupid behaviors after realizing that what they do was wrong.

    2- As Berb says it also includes -in some countries it is the major party in action-- fight against the religion, which is a very very tough one. Since we cant eliminate this retarded religion --not yet anyways - then we must help to make it softer. For ex. we should support the moderate imams, mullas etc and train more like them. That way we can at least lessen the burden on women. Again an ex. from Turkey. The number of imams, scholars who argue things like wearing pants, shaking hands are ok in Islam have increased significantly, thus more people started to think the same way. My mom for ex. doesn't dislike --not that she never forced me- pants anymore cos a respected scholar said so. There are men who stopped beating their wives after some imam told him there is no beating in Islam. People follow imams, mullas more than the Quran itself. There are many people who never read Quran but learned and lived his Islam according to what some imam told him or her.

    3- We have debate with women and tell them how Islam treats them. The better they know the truth of Islam the better they will be with lessening or cutting all bonds with Islam  and then better the next generations will be since moms raise the children. So generation after generation, maybe our grandchildren can live in a society free of religious tyranny :(

    Sorry for the length

    God = King of Despots
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #53 - July 11, 2011, 11:41 AM


    We have debate with women and tell them how Islam treats them. The better they know the truth of Islam the better they will be with lessening or cutting all bonds with Islam  and then better the next generations will be since moms raise the children. So generation after generation, maybe our grandchildren can live in a society free of religious tyranny  :(


    Yes! Madam!  yes Afro

    How I wish the wannabes were as wise!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Women's liberation in the Muslim world-- strategic considerations
     Reply #54 - July 13, 2011, 10:39 PM

    Pakistan is very hypocritical and confused. The rich can wear what they want but the poor have to stay covered from head to toe.
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