So you don't threat them, you just go ahead and disown them.
Very interesting also that you talk about the matter as if nurture is only what makes us who we are, and not nature too.
How we turn out isn't always an indicative of how well or badly our parents brought us up. Therefore, measuring one's parenthood through one's children is unreliable. Our children are the judge of our parenthood skills, wether they are successful in education, work and social life or they aren't.
Do you mean to say are NOT? or have you gone from saying that I am wrong to say nurture counts, to saying that nurture does count?
I think nature and nurture both play a part. I am certainly not going to kick back defeated as nature deals every blow. For each different nature in my children is a different nurture to offer. Parenting is not one set a rules, it is a flexible, keep you on your toes, changeable thing, as you test one method and discard it or keep it depending on the result.
Ie if my son swears at me and I revoke his xbox, he won't care, but if I revoke the pc, he will defintely get upset. On the other hand my little girl could care less about pc time, and doesn't enjoy cinema trips as a reward but prefers to do arts and crafts.
Its all different, but nature and nurture often go hand in hand as it is neither, or.
It is very interesting when a child does really well in anything that some parents line up to take credit for it and when the child does something stupid or bad is it his own fault. Again, it is the duality of Allah and Satan in Islam when it comes to actions.
Why shouldn't they? some gifts are innate no doubt and no one gets to take credit, but why shouldn't my dad take credit for teaching me to read before I went to school and thus setting me up to do better in school?
Little things matter. I could sit back and let nature take its course, let them learn at school and school alone and just see who does well and who doesn't, and really not give a fuck about my children's future.
or better yet, I can proactively work to improve their chances by ensuring they have access to stuff they need, long before I really have to.
If my boy is great at art, that has nothing to do with me, that is natural, but there are times in which cfredit is due and in actual fact there are times when children become adults and credit is given.
As to blame, shift of onus, no. I don't do that either. When they behave bad, I will look and see what I am doing wrong.
or do you put no stock in ideas like children being beaten will display behaviour problems, or a child growing up watching domestic violence occur daily, is not being nurtured to behave a specific way?
because I do. Therefore I will look to me first. No dual nature nothing.
I don't want to make personal to you, dear Ella, but I'd really really like to understand why would you or anyone disown their children?
Is it a protestation and showing them that what they did is horrible, so it is a disciplinary action OR you will be disowning them becuase you don't want to be associted with, lets say, a murderer? Or is it a bit of both?
If you mean go through the active process of disowning, or saying I disown you, I am not saying that. I am saying that i would effectively stop trying, stop being there, stop filling a role of support and acceptance since I do not accept said behaviour.
The door is open somewhere down the line should they change, serve out their time etc, but I am a bit sick of being told that as a mum I have a duty to accept and love another person simply because I gave birth to them, no matter what they do.
You think it would be easy? hell no.
But it is nothing like rejecting my child for being gay, being an atheist, or living how they want, its about rejecting someone, irregardless of what relation they are, who is cruel to others and destroys lives.
If that makes me a fail mum who shouldn't have bred at all, simply because I won't sit here and spew expected words of unconditional love and acceptance, then so be it. I honestly don't see it that way.
Only if i were certian or absolute like you, I wouldn't asked. If I bring them to this life I believe i'm responsible for looking after them till they're adults and during that time I will be trying to find out what makes each and everyone of them happy and then try to achieve that. That is an integral part of what I mean by unconditional love.
I said the same thing in regards to finding out what was important to them, but maybe you missed it.
If a child of mine killed someone or raped them, I will definitely report them to the authority and get them properly punished, I don't see that as a reflection on my parenthood or that I failed and thereafter I need to disown them. That partly comes within what I call, self-enlargment.
So the father who beats the crap out of his son, who then goes on to beat the crap out of his own son, is not to blame, infact if he sees blame in himself he is simply self enlarging?
Yeah, I totally disagree with that. Parenting DOES have an effect, it is not all nature. Sure some things are nature, but by its very defintiion, nurture plays a massive part.
What is social and cultural conditioning if not the end result of nurture and peer pressure?
The same is the case when they do something extremely good or moral in their lives, I won't always be able to trace my personal contribution in it, apart from the gene, and thereafter love them more than the others (the oppsite of disownment).
I reiterate; our children are the judge on us and what they say about us (not at times of fight or elation but normally) is what should count and not what they do.
Still disagree, even pedophilia can be often traced back to childhood rape of the pedo's own, ergo what they go on to do can often be found in what they have been taught.
I think its a cop out to say you contributed nothing.
Topic: Do some parents really love their children?