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 Topic: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!

 (Read 3729 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     OP - August 29, 2011, 04:48 PM

    Lol JK

    So I was doing some random google search. Muslim women's rights expecting to come across some websites highlighting some of the plights of Muslim women Islam, or articles which talked bout honour killings the hijab debate etc. etc. The majority of the first results were Muslims sites saying Allah gave women rights and that it's all a big misunderstanding by the West who's women have no freedom. So I just wanted to highlight some arguments I found interesting.


    Islam Gives Men and Women Equal Rights

    Quote
    In reality, and in Islam, the rights and responsibilities of a woman are equal to those of man, but they are not necessarily identical with them. Equality and sameness are two very different things. I think you’ll agree that, for one thing, women and men are physically very different from one another, although they are equal to each other in other important ways.

    In the West, women may be doing the same job that men do, but their wages are often less. The rights of Western women in modern times were not created voluntarily, or out of kindness to the female. The modern Western woman reached her present position by force, and not through natural processes or mutual consent of Divine teachings. She had to force her way, and various circumstances aided her. Shortage of manpower during wars, pressure of economic needs and requirement of industry forced women to leave their homes to work, struggling for their livelihood, to appear equal to men. Whether all women are sincerely pleased with these circumstances, and whether they are happy and satisfied with the results, is a different matter. But the fact remains that whatever rights modern Western women have, they fall short of those of her Muslim counterpart! Islam has given woman what duties her female nature. It gives her full security and protects her against becoming what Western modern women themselves complain against: a "mere sex object."



    Quote
    The rights of Muslim women were given to us by Allah (SWT), who is All-Compassionate, All-Merciful, All-Just, All-Unbiased, All-Knowing and Most Wise. These rights, which were granted to women more than 1400 years ago, and were taught by the perfect example of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW), were given by the one Who created us and Who alone knows what rights are best for our female natures. Allah (SWT) says in the Quran:

    "O You who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at time of marriage) you have given them, unless they commit open illegal sexual intercourse. And live with them honorably. If you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allah brings
    through it a great deal of good." (An-Nisa 4:19)


    The most basic right of a woman in Islam is the knowledge and recognition that she never has to ask or demand or fight for her rights which are guaranteed to her by Allah (SWT) Himself.


    Quote
    In fact, Islam gives women a number of rights, some of which were not enjoyed by Western women until the 19th century. For example, until 1882, the property of women in England was given to their husbands when they married, but Muslim women always retained their own assets. Muslim women could specify conditions in their marriage contracts, such as the right to divorce should their husband take another wife. Also, Muslim women in many countries keep their own last name after marriage


    Quote
    Female political leaders in Muslim societies

    Some women in Muslim societies have been prominent political actors. Female relatives of the Prophet Muhammad were particularly important in the early Muslim community because they knew his practice and teachings so well. Other women came to power through fathers or husbands. Still others wielded power behind the scenes.

    • Aisha, the favored wife of Muhammad, had great political clout and even participated in battle (the Battle of Camel).
    • Razia was a Muslim woman ruler of 13th-century India.
    • Amina was a 16th-century queen of Zaria in present-day Nigeria.
    • Shajarat al-Durr was briefly sultan in Mamluk Egypt, but was the power behind the throne for even longer.
    • The so-called "sultanate of women" in the Ottoman Empire during the 17th century was a period when several strong women had enormous power over affairs of state.
    • Huda Shaarawi, who became famous for discarding her face veil, also established a women's political party and worked for Egyptian independence from Britain in the first half of the 20th century.



    Just to name a few. one thing I found lacking was direct quotations from the Qu'ran except on this site

    http://www.realislam.com/muslim_women.htm

    I'm sure most of you lovely are ex-Muslim ladies probably even use to preach this stuff too? :< Looking back now how do you feel about the claim that Islam gave women rights? And the reasoning behind it.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #1 - August 29, 2011, 08:21 PM

    hmmm this is bs in oman females have to get 95+ to enter the uni but for males its 90+ even with that females out numbers males in the sultan qaboos university in ksa females are not allowed to drive...one more thing if a women ask her husband for divorce he can say no..women are treated like piece of land or such in islam hell a guy can marry 4women like are they serious why 1wife is not enough for his sexual desires what about the wife feelings to be replaced with a younger women..girl just move on and dont look back
  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #2 - August 29, 2011, 08:28 PM


    Whatever is good in the world, will be claimed by Muslims as equalled, originating, or contained in Islam.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #3 - August 29, 2011, 08:30 PM

    I've still haven't heard the claim that LGBTQ rights were invented by Islam. Because, you know, it "fixes" them and stuff. But it's probably only a matter of time before someone makes that claim.  mysmilie_977

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #4 - August 29, 2011, 11:53 PM

    hmmm this is bs in oman females have to get 95+ to enter the uni but for males its 90+ even with that females out numbers males in the sultan qaboos university in ksa females are not allowed to drive...one more thing if a women ask her husband for divorce he can say no..women are treated like piece of land or such in islam hell a guy can marry 4women like are they serious why 1wife is not enough for his sexual desires what about the wife feelings to be replaced with a younger women..girl just move on and dont look back



    First of all since when did Oman or Saudi represent 14 centuries of Islamic rule and society? The issue here is Allah/Islam and women, not women in muslim majority countries. Yes in KSA women don't drive, but I don't think Islam bans women from driving--you'll find salafi women in other parts of the world driving. There's a lot of things wrong with Islam's view on women in society and I'm not defending Islam but I don't like reading BS  Tongue 

    The driving ban is Saudi (afaik it didn't exist until the first gulf war) will hopefully be lifted coz even from an Islamic perspective its fucking STUPID! A woman can't drive on her own but can sit in a taxi with a non-mahram taxi driver or chauffeur, right.....  Roll Eyes
  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #5 - August 29, 2011, 11:58 PM

    Lol JK

    So I was doing some random google search. Muslim women's rights expecting to come across some websites highlighting some of the plights of Muslim women Islam, or articles which talked bout honour killings the hijab debate etc. etc. The majority of the first results were Muslims sites saying Allah gave women rights and that it's all a big misunderstanding by the West who's women have no freedom. So I just wanted to highlight some arguments I found interesting.


    Islam Gives Men and Women Equal Rights


    Just to name a few. one thing I found lacking was direct quotations from the Qu'ran except on this site

    http://www.realislam.com/muslim_women.htm

    I'm sure most of you lovely are ex-Muslim ladies probably even use to preach this stuff too? :< Looking back now how do you feel about the claim that Islam gave women rights? And the reasoning behind it.


    I think there's some truth to it. Aisha was indeed a military and political leader which made me look up to her as muslim  Tongue amongst other women during Muhammed's time. And when the Brits came to India they gave women less rights than they had under the mughals  Roll Eyes

    Quote
    Razia was a Muslim woman ruler of 13th-century India.


     Cheesy

    Yeah she was a ruler but a woman ruling is unislamic, there's a hadith where Muhammed said a society ruled by a woman would fail or something implying women shouldn't rule  whistling2

    As for Allah giving women rights......I always believed that even though Allah expected certain things of me (hijab, praying 5x times) only 'he' could judge and no man could force me, because afaik thats not in the hadith and certainly not in the Quran.
  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #6 - August 30, 2011, 12:27 AM

    When islam was created, in that region of the world women had no rights or power, they were regarded as little more than talking cattle. In that time Muhammed made rules to protect women- I don't think he was a bastard trying to subjugate women- he created rules to protect the women. However, this was fine in that time. The rights he afforded to women can be seen great when applied/restricted to then, but when one suggest this is a timeless ruling this is where things go awry.

    Islamically women are at worst treated like objects and at best as children. The rights of a woman are that she is fed, clothed and housed, that she is treated well and, if she misbehaves, she is to be reprimanded (even with a light beating!)- this is a parent/child sort of relationship. The male is regarded as the parent, the wiser by nature, who is naturally inclined to protect and support the woman. The reality is far from what islam would have us believe. Men are not more intelligent, men are not taking care of women, and women are not weak minded creatures grateful with doe eyed appreciation for being 'kept' by men.

    Yes, women were not given rights, we fought for them. This is not a negative but a positive. Yes, we fought because we deserve more. Women are kept inferior and at the behest of men, expected to fill any niche as and when it suits them. In times of plenty women are expected to gratefully live under the male rule, stay at home and make babies, when required women are expected to work and earn a living, when needed they're expected to run the country, then to go back home and be once more under the rule of men? This is perposterous. What the war did was show women that everything they were taught was wrong, that women are NOT naturally inferior, that they can do what men can, and some even better! Then after the war they were expected to return to the drudgery of servitude? Yes we fought and we'll continue to fight. The west is not responsible for filling our minds with lies, we women are seeing the truth ourselves. You can treat a dog like a person but it will never learn to read! Treating a woman like a man (giving rights etc) can not make her be intelligent, not servile, etc!
  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #7 - August 30, 2011, 12:54 AM

    Quote
    When islam was created, in that region of the world women had no rights or power, they were regarded as little more than talking cattle. In that time Muhammed made rules to protect women- I don't think he was a bastard trying to subjugate women- he created rules to protect the women. However, this was fine in that time. The rights he afforded to women can be seen great when applied/restricted to then, but when one suggest this is a timeless ruling this is where things go awry.

    Islamically women are at worst treated like objects and at best as children. The rights of a woman are that she is fed, clothed and housed, that she is treated well and, if she misbehaves, she is to be reprimanded (even with a light beating!)- this is a parent/child sort of relationship. The male is regarded as the parent, the wiser by nature, who is naturally inclined to protect and support the woman. The reality is far from what islam would have us believe. Men are not more intelligent, men are not taking care of women, and women are not weak minded creatures grateful with doe eyed appreciation for being 'kept' by men.


     Afro

    It is like a parent/child relationship. A woman needs the permission of her mahram to open a bank account, go to university, travel, etc. WTF?!
  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #8 - August 30, 2011, 02:09 AM

    When islam was created, in that region of the world women had no rights or power, they were regarded as little more than talking cattle. In that time Muhammed made rules to protect women- I don't think he was a bastard trying to subjugate women- he created rules to protect the women. However, this was fine in that time. The rights he afforded to women can be seen great when applied/restricted to then, but when one suggest this is a timeless ruling this is where things go awry.

    Islamically women are at worst treated like objects and at best as children. The rights of a woman are that she is fed, clothed and housed, that she is treated well and, if she misbehaves, she is to be reprimanded (even with a light beating!)- this is a parent/child sort of relationship. The male is regarded as the parent, the wiser by nature, who is naturally inclined to protect and support the woman. The reality is far from what islam would have us believe. Men are not more intelligent, men are not taking care of women, and women are not weak minded creatures grateful with doe eyed appreciation for being 'kept' by men.

    Yes, women were not given rights, we fought for them. This is not a negative but a positive. Yes, we fought because we deserve more. Women are kept inferior and at the behest of men, expected to fill any niche as and when it suits them. In times of plenty women are expected to gratefully live under the male rule, stay at home and make babies, when required women are expected to work and earn a living, when needed they're expected to run the country, then to go back home and be once more under the rule of men? This is perposterous. What the war did was show women that everything they were taught was wrong, that women are NOT naturally inferior, that they can do what men can, and some even better! Then after the war they were expected to return to the drudgery of servitude? Yes we fought and we'll continue to fight. The west is not responsible for filling our minds with lies, we women are seeing the truth ourselves. You can treat a dog like a person but it will never learn to read! Treating a woman like a man (giving rights etc) can not make her be intelligent, not servile, etc!

     very well said.

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #9 - August 30, 2011, 02:20 AM

     dance   thnkyu
  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #10 - August 30, 2011, 04:04 PM

    Aphrodite *The issue here is Allah/Islam and women, not women in muslim majority countries* lol..hun there is no *allah* to start with and women will always be treated like that in muslim countries but yes i do agree with you on some points...islam doesnt ban women from driving..and my respons to this>*but I don't like reading BS  * respect my opinion like how i respected yours..
  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #11 - August 30, 2011, 04:19 PM

    Interesting put Saffire.  Afro

    Yeah I don't even wanna really start debating over Muslim countries because it's more of a cultural thing and different religious interpretations. As Saffire said the rights of a woman are subjective. West has a different idea of women's rights than the East. I'm just wondering how women can defend Islam by saying it gives women's rights when there are plenty of hadiths and verses that clearly put women at the bottom of the barrel. It's very scarce cherry-picking.

    If Aisha was such great a military and political figure and she was Muhammad's favorite wife why don't more Muslim women point that out to make a case to take part in more political roles? It's great in the book but doesn't apply to the average Muslim woman seeking the same role? It seems like a fact thrown under the carpet? The Qu'ran is really confusing in that manner.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #12 - August 30, 2011, 04:30 PM


    Islamic rhetoric about the 'rights' that it gives to women, non Muslims etc, is just a mimicking of the idea of universal human rights, which underpin the kind of society that liberal secular democracy strives towards, and are the fruits of hundreds of years of struggle, materially, intellectually and politically.

    Islam sees in this idea a 'rival', just as it sees in other religions a 'rival', and so it has to display how everything is subservient to it..........naturally, of course, it so generously bestows 'rights' on women, non Muslims etc, in a really pathetic attempt to portray itself as a universalist source of the idea of 'human rights' (which are rooted in the basic principle of the dignity of the individual over the collective, free conscience etc etc), ie: pretty much diametrically opposed to how Islam asserts itself.

    Oh yeah, and of course, rather than the Islamic idea of rights being self evident and natural, they are to be bestowed upon the subjects (we are not worthy!) by the institutions of Islam, and the men of Islam.

    How generous and enlightened thou art!


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #13 - August 30, 2011, 04:38 PM

    Treating women as cattle instead of object must have been a big step forward in those times. Too bad Islam stuck to that improvement.

    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #14 - August 30, 2011, 05:14 PM

    A woman can't drive on her own but can sit in a taxi with a non-mahram taxi driver or chauffeur, right.....  Roll Eyes

    How else do you think they get their jollies?

    The Queensway* Saudis are all at it with their cabbies, apparently.


    *Rich area of London.
  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #15 - August 30, 2011, 10:03 PM

    The interesting thing about islam (and offensive!) is NOT the role assigned to women, but that islam regards this role as being less than the role played by the man.

    Let's say, for the sake of argument, it's true that most women are naturally inclined to be mother's, stay at home, domestics, etc. So? Why does this make these women inferior? Why is this task considered less worthy than tha males? Why does Islam regard women as being 'kept' or rather 'maintained' by men because the men bring money, when it ignores the woman's role of maintaining the home, the chidren and, often, the household running, finances, etc?

    Islam makes domestics a bad thing. There's no shame in a woman (or a man) being a home maker. One of the hardest jobs is running a home while raising kids and managing finances. It's offensive how islam asserts that only a woman must do this job, this is her natural postition and this is a low position.

    Another thing, islam states it 'gives' women rights so they don't have to ask for them. How? Islam is interpreted freely by men to suit their own agendas- the quran is nothing but a bunch of words twisted and translated to suit. Islamically a woman has no responsibility to give her money to the family coffers, she can spend it on whatever she likes while retaining the right to be fed/clothes/housed. In addition, she retains her paltry 1/8th of the man's earnings should he die before her. So logically the woman could work and pay someone to do the domestics or keep the money to buy shoes and sparkly things (robots)- but she doesn't. What does this tell us? What does this say of the nature of women? The way women allow men to take advantage? It shows women are 'better', they don't use islam to fuck men over and live a livish life. What reasonable woman would use this islamic principle? Um, hubby struggling to pay the mortgage *shrug*- hands the maid a £50 as she drops her Harrods shopping onto the living room floor.  Cheesy

    In any babbling when a person makes many many claims based on personal opinion there is a chance some (few) will be correct. This is one of them- islam states women are too 'good' so islam creates laws to protect them as they're too 'good' to be dicks like men. Well, part one is correct, part 2 not so much!
  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #16 - August 31, 2011, 09:18 PM

    what completely made me abandon the ridiculous things I was defending were the ahadith about the 'fact' that the angels curse the lady that doesn't come running when her hubbie asks her to have sex with him, dropping everything that she is doing at the moment, like the food she is cooking in the kitchen.

    Also, I used to defend Islam by quoting a hadith that in islam the woman is supposed to be treated well. Later, I realised a very important thing: the definition of WELL is not the same as in modern, normal, human rules. For example, in islam it is totally compatible to both say: I have to treat my wife well, and I can beat her. Why? Because the higher goal is not humanity, but getting your wife, who is naturally weak etc. etc. to the jannah in afterlife. If she sins and doesn't listen to you, it's ok to hit her in the end, because by this you are treating her well! You're keeping her away from the hellfire by admonishing her.
  • Re: Allah gave women rights what the hell is wrong with you!
     Reply #17 - August 31, 2011, 11:07 PM

    Aphrodite *The issue here is Allah/Islam and women, not women in muslim majority countries* lol..hun there is no *allah* to start with and women will always be treated like that in muslim countries but yes i do agree with you on some points...islam doesnt ban women from driving..and my respons to this>*but I don't like reading BS  * respect my opinion like how i respected yours..


    When did I say there was?
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