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Theme Changer

 Topic: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...

 (Read 3449 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     OP - September 30, 2011, 12:36 PM

    ...and I asked her why does she support a religion that brands her as a creature that is not only inferior compared to men, but also deficient in intelligence, and is far more likely to end up in hell, based on the hadith of Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301:

    Quote
    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
    Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."


    But then she claims that the said haddith was 'not properly translated', and that the 'proper translation' is supposed to sound more like this:

    Quote
    The Messenger of Allah once said to a group of women: O Women, give charity. I see the majority of those in hellfire to be women. They said: why is it so, O Messenger of Allah? He said: You rebuke a lot and you are disobedient towards your husbands. I have not seen any one who has more influence on an intelligent and sensible man, than you, although you are deficient in intellect and religion. A cautious, sensible man can easily be led astray by you. The women asked: O Allah's Messenger, what is deficient in our intellect and religion? He said: Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man? They replied in the affirmative. He said: This is the deficiency in your intelligence'... 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menstruation? The women replied in the affirmative. He said: This is the deficiency in your religion.''


    The difference (or at least what she claimed was different, to me both of them just sounds the same) is while the first version is directed to women in general, the second 'properly translated' version is more directed towards a particular group of women that Muhammad was talking to at the time. Is this even true? My Bullshit Radar went off the scale reading this, but I jus wanna hear what you guys think.
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #1 - September 30, 2011, 12:51 PM

    So the verse in the eternal Quran (2 witnesses) is directed at a group of women who have been dead for well over 1 thousand years? Riiight Smiley

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #2 - October 01, 2011, 10:49 AM

    ..So I was discussing  " HADITH" with a Muslimah the other day..


    ...and I asked her why does she support a religion that brands her as a creature that is not only inferior compared to men, but also deficient in intelligence, and is far more likely to end up in hell, based on the hadith of Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301:

    But then she claims that the said haddith was 'not properly translated', and that the 'proper translation' is supposed to sound more like this:

    The difference (or at least what she claimed was different, to me both of them just sounds the same) is while the first version is directed to women in general, the second 'properly translated' version is more directed towards a particular group of women that Muhammad was talking to at the time. Is this even true? My Bullshit Radar went off the scale reading this, but I jus wanna hear what you guys think.


    Why discuss STUPID HADITH and waste time?? .. ask her to read Quran dear truth_seeker..

    Here let her start with Surah Al-Anfal and Surat At-Taĥrīm  and ask her to use some common sense in figuring out whether such words she reads in those verses are words from  Allah/god...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #3 - October 01, 2011, 11:02 AM

    Interestingly, I had the same response when I brought this up in one of my discussions (the muslima in my case didn't mention a wrong translation though, simply that the hadith was referring to a specific set of women, who were sitting outside the mosque; it was directed at them only because they were misbehaving or something).

    I brought up the 2 witnesses verse, but surprisingly she said that's a good verse (in fact, it's been shown scientifically that it's correct -_-).

    So her argument was: deficient in intelligence is wrongly interpreted by us atheists and in reality it wasn't meant to be rude; and the deficiency in the religion was specifically for those women (and not all women, as there isn't a Quranic verse saying Hell is populated by a majority of women).

    I must say, she does know how to bullshit herself out of an argument.

    <dust>: i love tea!!!
    <dust>: milky tea
    <three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
    <dust>: mm
    <three>: it's definitely not called neck
    <dust>: lol
    <three>: what's the word i'm looking for
    <dust>: throat
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #4 - October 01, 2011, 10:24 PM

    Funnily enough, people generally say things like ‘Science supports this!’ but cannot provide any peer–reviewed studies that support their case. Either they provide spurious bollocks from their islamic websites, or else they try to Bacaille you.
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #5 - October 01, 2011, 10:27 PM

    Oh, yes, good ol' Maurice Bucaille Tongue

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #6 - October 01, 2011, 10:31 PM

    Quote
    The women asked: O Allah's Messenger, what is deficient in our intellect and religion? He said: Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man? They replied in the affirmative. He said: This is the deficiency in your intelligence'... 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menstruation? The women replied in the affirmative. He said: This is the deficiency in your religion.''


    The parts in bold are supported by Quranic verses, so no, that hadith is not just about "those group" of women. This is just a way that muslim women try to find an excuse to justify their self-imposed slavery, and try to act all high and mighty compared to "other" women.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #7 - October 01, 2011, 10:33 PM

    i luv u truth_seeker we can b 2 gether.

    fuck you
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #8 - October 02, 2011, 08:26 AM

    ^
    you're not making it obvious enough.  Roll Eyes

    truth_seeker - please give him a chance so he can shut up. he will dress nicely for you (if you're into that).. i can't guarantee he will be a complete gentleman (if you're not into that  Tongue).. but he will make you laugh and he has a lot of guns so he is able to protect you  Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley

    Rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in.
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #9 - October 02, 2011, 08:38 AM

    thanx, we will have a 3-sum but u must know truth_seeker will always b my tru luv as long as he has that avatar

    fuck you
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #10 - October 02, 2011, 09:53 AM

    i luv u truth_seeker we can b 2 gether.

    ^
    you're not making it obvious enough.  Roll Eyes

    truth_seeker - please give him a chance so he can shut up. he will dress nicely for you (if you're into that).. i can't guarantee he will be a complete gentleman (if you're not into that  Tongue).. but he will make you laugh and he has a lot of guns so he is able to protect you  Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley


    I guess this is a bad time to tell you guys that I have a dick.
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #11 - October 02, 2011, 09:56 AM

    Yeah but it's tiny enough that it wont worry them. Smiley

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #12 - October 02, 2011, 06:02 PM

    I guess this is a bad time to tell you guys that I have a dick.



    Well that's great news for me.  Cheesy

    I have one too.

    Rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in.
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #13 - October 02, 2011, 06:39 PM

    There was this religious group/lecture thing I used to go to three years ago - only because my sister was part in organizing it with a couple of friends.

    We concentrated on hadiths for some time - we'd switch back and forth from them to the Quran.

    Well, that hadith came up - specifically the one about women making up the majority of inhabitants in hell.

    We all were like  Huh?  Shocked Angry and I was all those things plus something like furious (appropriately huh? lol)

    But then one girl said something along the lines of "Well, maybe it is because a lot of women gossip more and aren't very good at being pious like men can be... they can be seductive.." etc. Basically just justifying all this shit..  I was internally doing this banghead

    And I think someone else called bullshit because she said she personally knows a lot more men who talk a whole lot of shit about people behind their backs.

    I was just thinking of my sociology of gender class and what I learned in there, and how fucking epic that class was for me... I think I went in with the right basic understanding about things - but I was completely different when I left (and vindicated). It was eye opening on plenty of other social and world issues I didn't know much about.

    Like, it doesn't matter....stopppp looking at people as a dick or a pussy  Cheesy
    and attaching certain behaviors unique to their sex because it's bullshit.

    Anyway... just wanted to share this. Came to no real conclusion... some people were more confused, some people doubted but still accepted, some felt even more unsettled with Islam than they already were (yours truly)...

    On another occasion the slave/concubine thing was brought up. This time we had one of the moms come in to lecture us because she's more " knowledgable" in Islam and more wise than we are.  Cheesy

    Of course I had already heard about this bullshit and hated it and it was one of the huge doubts I've always had, that never went away.. I was happy when one of the girls spoke up quite passionately, challenging the lady and telling her slavery is never justified. But the lady kept going on with her bs that it doesn't matter much because it was only pertinent to those times. I was like  Roll Eyes then what's the fucking point of us knowing and it still being a part of Islam today?

    Sigh. I should contact that girl because I think there might be hope for her  Wink although she married a Muslim and moved away now. I want to tell her she was right in doubting and that she should possibly listen to that doubt more.....

    Rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in.
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #14 - October 03, 2011, 12:23 AM

    I guess this is a bad time to tell you guys that I have a dick.



    i don care, my luv 4 u transcends sexuality n gender

    fuck you
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #15 - October 07, 2011, 04:43 AM

    Nothing is ever translated properly in the Qu'ran or the Hadiths.  EVER. People interpret how they want. You take it for face value, and she wants to do back flips and believes in an underlined meaning which is never clarified, thus cannot be disputed.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: So I was discussing with a Muslimah the other day...
     Reply #16 - October 07, 2011, 01:53 PM

    i don care, my luv 4 u transcends sexuality n gender

     Cheesy

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
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