BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain

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BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
OP - October 13, 2011, 08:46 AM

The number of polygamous relationships among British Muslims is increasing, according to British Muslim groups. So what is it like to have two wives or be married to a man and share him with someone else?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15032947

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0153rzs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_Vzpk6bgPQ

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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #1 - October 13, 2011, 05:17 PM

Personally I don't really see the huge deal with polygamy if all the people in involved are ok with it. What is NOT ok is forcing women to marry into a polygamous relationship.

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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #2 - October 13, 2011, 05:46 PM

though i havent watched the video because im using a mobile,I agree with sakura regarding polygamous marriage, provided there is a consent and If the wife has no problem with her husband marrying another wife,im cool with that,yet i wonder if there are men that would be willing to let their wife marry another husband.

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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #3 - October 13, 2011, 05:53 PM

It fucking stinks and is a charter for abuse.

Woman, once again, is the victim.

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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #4 - October 13, 2011, 11:41 PM

Quote from: Sakura02 on October 13, 2011, 05:17 PM
Personally I don't really see the huge deal with polygamy if all the people in involved are ok with it. What is NOT ok is forcing women to marry into a polygamous relationship.

I agree, consenting adults and all that. There must be thousands of situations going on right now where a man in the UK has two families unknown to each other, or a mistress tucked away somewhere, at least polygamy makes it more honest.

I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #5 - October 13, 2011, 11:51 PM

Like hell it does.

Men get the 'benefits' of marriage and at least one woman is left with no rights.

Its a misogynists charter and in reality, the dynamics and coercions of Muslim communities mean the woman can rarely give free assent.

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Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #6 - October 14, 2011, 12:01 AM

Just think it is weird for a man to have two families, one by deception from the other so to speak, or a steady mistress tucked away somewhere, and this is deemed legal
whereas for the bloke to be open about it, to state to both women, I love both of you, I want to get married to both of you - this breaks the law.

I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #7 - October 14, 2011, 12:06 AM

Its misogynistic brutality masquerading in the mask of cultural relativity as benign. It wrecks lives, it coerces women, it is male supremacism and female oppression writ large. Muslims already have issues with not coming under the marriage act - men want the benefits of having the rights of the male in a religiously ordained marriage whilst the women have no rights in civil law. What a disgraceful and arrogant situation.

Why else do so many Muslim men want to have sharia rules in effect and coercive sharia courts inserted into the lives of marginalised communities and women.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #8 - October 14, 2011, 12:08 AM

In my world, if one woman wanted to get married to two men, so be it. I wasn't talking specifically about muslims or sharia law.

I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #9 - October 14, 2011, 12:10 AM

Quote from: billy on October 13, 2011, 11:51 PM
Like hell it does.

Men get the 'benefits' of marriage and at least one woman is left with no rights.

Its a misogynists charter and in reality, the dynamics and coercions of Muslim communities mean the woman can rarely give free assent.

I agree. Polygamy is fine imo as long as both or more parties are completly free to stipulate aany condition and with full knowledge. This usually doesn't happen in most situations in groups that promote polygamy.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #10 - October 14, 2011, 12:16 AM

Quote from: devilsadvokat on October 14, 2011, 12:08 AM
In my world, if one woman wanted to get married to two men, so be it. I wasn't talking specifically about muslims or sharia law.

Sadly, it is a real issue, not a theoretical communal utopian fantasy with all things being equal. I've seen the wreckage of a Muslim woman whose husband took a second wife up close, and it took her years to escape from the prison cell that man, and all the honour / shame dynamics her family, her husband and community imprisoned her in. She got away. Most women don't, and lead utterly bleak lives.

Male supremacism is not unique to Islam, and neither is polygamy, but there aren't many other examples of the horror of a male supremacist charter that religion encodes, than this issue.

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Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #11 - October 14, 2011, 12:16 AM

Quote
This usually doesn't happen in most situations in group that promote polygamy.

I have a friend who has two wives, both of them know about each other, one from pakistan the other a convert to islam - he looks after both of them I suppose equally, helps that he is well off. If he did not have two wives he would possibly have one wife indoors and another one as a mistress - at least this way both are treated as wives and one is not the 'other woman'.

To be frank though, my natural instincts are that polygamy is male supremacist culture but hell, an awful lot of that happens anyway, non-polygamous culture has loads of situations of men with many mistress(es) and wife and it is legal.

I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #12 - October 14, 2011, 12:21 AM

Most men wouldn't be cool with sharing another woman, because men have a much higher territorial instincts than women. Primal kind of instincts. I saw a documentary on a (what appeared to be) a completely functioning polygamous family, in America not formed by religious beliefs, just normal people , and the women treated the other wives as though they were all sisters. They all share in taking care of the house and children, without problems.

In polygamy it's not really about if a man can why can't a woman as well. Technically they can ( at least in free societies ) it's more about who is willing to do so. Pretty much this practice is kind of outdated, since women didn't have a choice in love and were forced into these roles.

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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #13 - October 14, 2011, 12:27 AM

Quote from: devilsadvokat on October 14, 2011, 12:16 AM
non-polygamous culture has loads of situations of men with many mistress(es) and wife and it is legal.

This is a complete strawman and even as a strawman its irrelevant. A man having an affair with a woman is not equivalent to polygamy. The woman who is the 'mistress' isn't bound to him under divine communal marriage sanction. The wife has legal recourse and rights when she discovers her husband has been having an affair. She is protected from his conduct and adultery.

The conduct of cheating adulterous bastards who have affairs doesn't render polygamy benign by any stretch of any imagination. Bigamy is illegal. One of the imuplses to sharia is so that this abuse can be kept undercover in a non Muslim society. Its a faultline issue, as far as I am concerned.

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Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #14 - October 14, 2011, 12:45 AM

what if the man is not having an affair but has two families, rather than a wife and mistress, it happens. And in an ideal world there are rights for both wives under Islamic law.

I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #15 - October 14, 2011, 12:53 AM

Quote
what if the man is not having an affair but has two families, rather than a wife and mistress, it happens

My whole last post was about the irrelevancy of that. My mentioning of bigamy as a formal recognition of this by society was an addendum to it. Muslim men who practise polygamy want all the benefits of divinely sanctioned marriage without any of the responsibilities society imposes on married men. Like I said, this is where the impulse to sharia codes comes from - has to be kept undercover and outside the secular mainstream to preserve their privelige. Women be damned, they are inferior anyway.

Quote
And in an ideal world there are rights for both wives under Islamic law.

Indeed, in an ideal world there is always an excuse for the very worst systems and Islamic law is no different. Its pure excuse mongering. You've already said you don't agree with it so I assume you're not doing that, but in the real world, people actually have the audacity to peddle this.

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Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #16 - October 14, 2011, 12:57 AM

Quote
Muslim men who practise polygamy want all the benefits of divinely sanctioned marriage without any of the responsibilities society imposes on married men.

What responsibilities?

Quote
You've already said you don't agree with it so I assume you're not doing that

That's right, just playing Devil's Advocate.

I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #17 - October 14, 2011, 03:13 AM

Quote from: devilsadvokat on October 14, 2011, 12:45 AM
what if the man is not having an affair but has two families, rather than a wife and mistress, it happens. And in an ideal world there are rights for both wives under Islamic law.

You can't have mistresses under Shariah, if you want to keep them mistresses or if they prefer to stay mistresses that is. Shariah is simply an extension of the same conservative sex-must-be-under-marriage premise. The same premise that deprives women and men of the freedom to set their own sexual and relationship rules to the fullest. Even more so when women are purposefully kept ignorant of their rights under secular and even Shariah law or are surrounded by the cultural impulses that they should only please their husbands, that sex for enjoyment for them is forbidden under all costs, subservience is good, along with the cultural and sometimes physical beating and even death that come with defying it.

I think Shariah law is good only in as far as it expands the idea that people can enter into a mutual contract that extends beyond monogamy, but Shariah itself with its cultural moors is not a step forward.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #18 - October 14, 2011, 12:04 PM

Quote from: devilsadvokat on October 14, 2011, 12:57 AM
What responsibilities?

Oh brother.

Quote
That's right, just playing Devil's Advocate.

Its an easy thing to do - people actually believe and peddle the crap you mouthed in the real world.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #19 - October 15, 2011, 12:09 AM

I am amenable to new learning on this matter - Perhaps we are talkijng about two different things, whereas you are talking about Muslims and Sharia, I am talking about polygynous marriage between consenting adults.

Quote
Shariah is simply an extension of the same conservative sex-must-be-under-marriage premise

I am not advocating that, though i do tend towards children ideally should be born to married parents.

Quote
The same premise that deprives women and men of the freedom to set their own sexual and relationship rules to the fullest

As long it does not involve feckless fatherhood. Otherwise enjoy.

Quote
Even more so when women are purposefully kept ignorant of their rights under secular and even Shariah law or are surrounded by the cultural impulses that they should only please their husbands, that sex for enjoyment for them is forbidden under all costs, subservience is good, along with the cultural and sometimes physical beating and even death that come with defying it.

Indeed, but this mostly a cultural issue and here in the UK, I would say the single biggest mistake was the inter-continental marriage. Imo if it could been restricted by stricter stipulations it would have been better for the pakistani community at least.

Christianity is a strictly monogamous brand and is still patriarchal.

Though the single biggest reason why I even give polygyny the time of day is that imo it matches evolution - just seems more akin to human evolution.

I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #20 - October 15, 2011, 01:12 AM

didn't they close this network ages ago? BBC Asia was closed due to strapped budget, lol, no more high brow bangra

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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #21 - October 15, 2011, 01:14 AM

Wish it had been closed ages ago - institutionally anti-pakistani if you ask me.

I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #22 - October 15, 2011, 01:16 AM

how was it anti-pakistani, they played all sorts indian/pakistan stuff on there

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Re: BBC Asian Network Reports on Polygamy in Britain
Reply #23 - October 15, 2011, 01:18 AM

Not the music aspect of it, but the politics/agenda/topics - exhibited by the Sonia Deoul and Nihal phone-ins.

I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
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