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Theme Changer

 Topic: how to do philosophy

 (Read 12589 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • how to do philosophy
     OP - November 05, 2011, 11:17 AM

    This is not directed towards anyone, but I feel that some people don't know what philosophy is or how to do it. This is my take, based on personal experience as well as formal training as a philosophy student:

    The most important thing when it comes to philosophy is to remember that it's not debating, it's discussing. You have to suspend your beliefs and take the argument for what it is. You have to dissociate yourself from the beliefs you hold. It's not personal, and you don't enter it with the intention to win, you enter it with the intention to gain knowledge. I'd actually rather have my argument invalidated and change my beliefs rather than "win". But to do that I do everything I can to defend my position so that I can be fairly certain that the other standpoint is valid. Essentially I become a litmus test for the other argument. That's why I only enter discussions with people I think might change my beliefs, hence I don't discuss things with creationists, for example. I know our views are so far apart that there would be no reconciliation, and I would gain absolutely nothing from the discussion. I don't enter discussions to pat myself on the back and prove myself right, although it definitely renews my own beliefs if the other person's beliefs don't stand up to the test.

    If someone tried to argue something without backing it up, I feel that it's not worthy, because that person would have neither questioned my beliefs nor reinforced them, therefore leaving me with absolutely nothing new. My knowledge becomes stagnant and I leave the discussion in the exact same state as I entered it. If you don't want to challenge your beliefs, don't enter into a discussion.

    When you suspend your beliefs, the first thing you have to do is read/hear the other person's argument without interrupting and without making any judgments whatsoever. The argument might sound as looney as possible, just absolutely fucking ridiculous and you just want to shit your pants laughing at it, but you have to prevent yourself from doing it at all costs. When you engage with the other person's argument, you have to see whether or not it's logically coherent. This has nothing yet to do with whether it's correct or not, simply whether the conclusion follows from the arguments, which follow from the premise. Which means of course you have to first identify those. If the argument is not logically coherent, show how it's not. If it is, see if the premise, i.e. hypothesis, is true or not. If you think it's wrong, show why it is. If you can't, then there must have been something wrong with your previous beliefs, and you need to revise them.

    PS: I do not claim to always do this. A philosophy student has to consciously remember the method of doing philosophy and practice it as much as possible for it to become second nature.
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #1 - November 06, 2011, 09:12 PM

    I'm one of those people who have no clue about Philosophy. What is the purpose of it and what can philosophy do that Science cannot. How can philosophy be applied in real life?

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #2 - November 07, 2011, 12:38 AM

    Science is the application of certain philosophical schools of thought. It's based on the belief that we have access to the outside world and can deduce justified beliefs from said access.
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #3 - November 07, 2011, 12:54 AM

    :O Feynman is turning in his grave.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8aWBcPVPMo

    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #4 - November 07, 2011, 12:56 AM

    What Feynman argues is a philosophical belief.

    Philosophy among many scientists (and lay people) seems to be a pejorative for skepticism.
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #5 - November 07, 2011, 01:08 AM


    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #6 - November 07, 2011, 01:19 AM

    You have to suspend your beliefs and take the argument for what it is.you You have to dissociate rself from the beliefs you hold. It's not personal, and you don't enter it with the intention to win, you enter it with the intention to gain knowledge.


    This is what our philosophy teacher keeps stressing to us everytime we have a debate in class lol. It's frustrating but I can see where he's coming from. When I first started philosophy I thought I could stomp all over philosophy and cockslap it by using science, man that was just a fail. Cheesy

    And your last part is totally right as well, you can try disproving or arguing back but nobody really wins. Philosophy makes me want to pull my hair out and scream sometimes, but for some reason I still love it. God I sound like a masochist...

    07:54 <harakaat>: you must be jema
    07:54 <harakaat>: considering how annoying you are
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #7 - November 07, 2011, 01:31 AM

    Philosophy makes me want to pull my hair out and scream sometimes, but for some reason I still love it. God I sound like a masochist...

    Spoken like a true philosopher. Afro
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #8 - November 07, 2011, 02:13 AM

    Philosophy books are hard to read drunk, that is for sure. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #9 - November 07, 2011, 02:14 AM

     Cheesy

    try reading one stoned.
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #10 - November 07, 2011, 03:12 AM

    ^I can do that

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #11 - November 07, 2011, 03:14 AM

    Philosophy can be really depressing!
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #12 - November 07, 2011, 03:24 AM

    Of course. But it can also be life-affirming and uplifting.
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #13 - November 07, 2011, 03:32 AM

  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #14 - November 07, 2011, 03:37 AM

     Afro
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #15 - November 08, 2011, 06:24 AM

    science beats philosophy cuz science dealz with factz and philosophy is just thinking about menial shit

    like srsly, a logical analysis of tacitly accepted constructs by science isn't needed, nor is a formalisation of these notions. fuck dat, science works and that's all we care about. fuck consistent(and complete ololool) definitions of meta-scientific notions like 'facts' and 'theory', fuck questions of objectivity and truth, and fuck philosophy. philosophy sucks dick and science is for da TRU SKEPTIC
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #16 - November 08, 2011, 06:27 AM

    you say the scientific method came from philosophy? wat? b-b-b-but...science has ALWAYS been around, since aristotle!

    aristotle was a philosopher you say? well he was also a mysogynist so i suppose he's not perfect, that doesn't detract from my point. science is da essence of our world and we can get all we need from it!

    they say that about islam? well science isn't immoral like islam is....

    eugenics? dats da wrong application of science...

    what's 'wrong' about it you ask? fuck off u philosopher faggot
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #17 - November 08, 2011, 06:38 AM

    Yeah mate. Right on. What he said. yes

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #18 - November 08, 2011, 06:46 AM

     Cheesy
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #19 - November 08, 2011, 06:46 AM

    the point that lies in that horrendous attempt at parody is that this attitude that science and philosophy are somehow at odds is retarded.

    science is a wonderful thing that tells us all we can about the phenomena that surround us. it's fascinating, sometimes defies our intuition and humbles us by reminding us how small and how big we are in this massive clusterfuck of a universe.

    philosophy is also quite wonderful. it allows us to rigourously analyze the ideas we accept, and those we don't accept. even mathematics and science have an underlying philosophy, hell aesthetics and beauty also have a philosophy behind them(though the latter two of the four i've never been interested in, infact most of my interest these days is in the philosophy of mathematics tbh). it challenges us and lets us take a step back from ourselves and ask 'what the fuck does this mean?'.

    i think they're both beautiful and fascinating thing. the fact that some atheists and theists alike want to dismiss one or the other(or both) as being wrong, or pretentious, or unnecessary is fucking ridiculous.
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #20 - November 08, 2011, 06:47 AM

    Cheesy

    try reading one stoned.


    pussy, i can do math while stoned(which obviously means i can do philosophy amirite)
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #21 - November 08, 2011, 07:03 AM

    The big problem I have with philosophy students is that they want to turn everything into a philosophical discussion, often of the most pointlessly nit-picking variety. It's like they think "Oh hey I'm learning to be really really clever, so I'd better practice in everyone's faces all the fucking time". Tongue

    This may not be the intention, but it does often seem to be the effect. Smiley

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #22 - November 08, 2011, 07:06 AM

    this is a discussion board, obviously i'm gonna be in my smartypants mode and practicing philosophy whenever i can. sorry if my passion offends you. if you don't want to engage in a discussion, no one's forcing you. i'm not gonna hang out with you at a bar and force you to get in a philosophical discussion with me.
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #23 - November 08, 2011, 07:09 AM

    It doesn't really offend me. I find it amusing at times. Other times I ignore it.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #24 - November 08, 2011, 07:10 AM

    i am a rather intriguing individual. Wink

    off to do my philosophy readings for class. Tongue
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #25 - November 08, 2011, 07:12 AM

    Well brush up on your logical fallacies, mate. You seem to be slipping a bit lately. Wink

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #26 - November 08, 2011, 10:55 AM

     finmad
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #27 - November 08, 2011, 03:17 PM

    I love the philosophy of Mozi as a complement to Buddhism. Very practical and agreeable to me. We agree that to have music is wrong, and I find the following story very useful for discussions about allegedly proper customs.

    Master Mozi said, “This is what's called treating habit as appropriate and custom as morally right. Formerly, east of Yue there was the country of Gai Shu. When their first son was born, they dismembered and ate him, calling this an obligation to his brothers. When their grandfather died, they carried off their grandmother and abandoned her, saying, ‘One cannot live with the wife of a ghost.’ These were treated as policy above and as custom below, performed without ceasing and held onto without letting go. But how can these really be the way of what is humane and right?” (Book 25, “Thrift in Funerals”)

    Interested in Buddhism? Check out http://www.accesstoinsight.org/!
    Consider Nalanda University, and never let it happen again.
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #28 - November 08, 2011, 07:52 PM

    finmad

    I'm quite serious. Take your attempt to define a fact as "something which cannot be disproved".

    The existence of various types of deities cannot be disproved. Therefore, according to your definition, the existence of said deities must be a fact. This would apply even if the deities in question were mutually exclusive.

    Perhaps you would care to reconsider your position.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: how to do philosophy
     Reply #29 - November 08, 2011, 07:57 PM

    I've already explained this, actually. My definition is experiential and subjective. People experience something powerful and mysterious, something "higher" than them, something they cannot explain. Some of them call it God. Therefore to them God is a fact. It's not only a belief, it's a knowledge.

    This is nothing new, it's the basis of mysticism.

    I also said that I've experienced and continue to experience this "force". It's something I can neither prove nor disprove -- but I know with all certainty that I experience it. Nor will anyone ever be able to prove or disprove it to me. It just is, it's beyond science.

    The key term here is experience. The knowledge is not of the something existing in and of itself, but rather the experience.
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »