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Theme Changer

 Topic: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz

 (Read 17452 times)
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  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #60 - November 10, 2011, 07:48 AM

    Never said it was, but it was one of your up front examples of bad stuffz, so I figure fair enough to have a crack at it. Point being that if it aint as bad as you make out, then it's not a good example to use.


    It was pretttttty bad. Original point being that Feynman was full of shit when trying to discard all of philosophy.

    Well those people are bloody idjuts if they think that anything (science or whatever) is infallible.


    The biggest idjusts, I find, are the ones who look at the starry sky and say "Wow isn't science amazing!" Cheesy Cheesy Hey dumbass, that sky, those stars are not science.

    They conflate what science studies with science itself. Cheesy Talk about confusing the map for the territory.

    Which will only work if your ethical framework is constrained in advance to give the result you want. Smiley


    And that framework is always, for everyone, rooted in a particular philosophy, whether they call it that or not, whether they are aware of it or not. Another example: much of our current views on morality (especially sexual morality) are based on Kant's views, who was heavily influenced by Christian views on sexuality. Most people don't know this, and some who identify as secular may deny it. But if you actually read Kant's views on sex, there is quite a clear line between what he said and what is available now in media, movies, songs, pop-psychology books and shows on "love", "romance" and "marriage".

    So, our frameworks, ethical or otherwise, are inherited by philosophers of yore... I say let's dive in, transcend their boundaries, and figure this shit out for ourselves Wink (heretic philosophy)

    Nice try, but considering that the war against Japan was basically a defensive response to Japanese imperial aggression, would your philosophy preclude you taking steps to defend yourself and others?

    If it would, you are off the hook on this one (although most likely dead or enslaved). If it wouldn't, you aint off the hook.


    Hmmm. Not that simple. I'll get you some of the research I have in the next few days on this particular incident. Have to fish through my bookmarked journal articles first.

    Right, so you're confirming what I originally said, which was that you can't rely on philosophy as a balance unless you think it is rigged to give the result you want. Afro


    You can DO philosophy to refine your own premises, and you are always applying your philosophies. Philosophy is at its basis, the question: Why? When you gotta feed your family, it is not the time to ask that question. But it's good to reexamine and refine one's views in between meals Wink

    Applied ethics is a subset of philosophy, and yes there are differing views and schools of thought. But disregarding philosophy altogether makes for some very unethical uses of science.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #61 - November 10, 2011, 07:50 AM

  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #62 - November 10, 2011, 08:06 AM

    It was pretttttty bad. Original point being that Feynman was full of shit when trying to discard all of philosophy.

    I know it was pretty bad, but the alternatives were pretty bad. Agree about the constipated physicist.


    Quote
    The biggest idjusts, I find, are the ones who look at the starry sky and say "Wow isn't science amazing!" Cheesy Cheesy Hey dumbass, that sky, those stars are not science.

    They conflate what science studies with science itself. Cheesy Talk about confusing the map for the territory.

    Well it isn't confusion if their thoughts at the time are that it is amazing how much we have managed to learn about the universe (which is a fair enough thing to think these days, and one that could quite easily occur to a lot of people). You'd have to question them about their exact thoughts at the time of the exclamation. Personally I tend to mix a bit of that with a whole shitload of good ol' hippy "Fukn A!".

    Quote
    And that framework is always, for everyone, rooted in a particular philosophy, whether they call it that or not, whether they are aware of it or not.

    Yes I realise that.


    Quote
    Hmmm. Not that simple. I'll get you some of the research I have in the next few days on this particular incident. Have to fish through my bookmarked journal articles first.

    K.


    Quote
    You can DO philosophy to refine your own premises, and you are always applying your philosophies. Philosophy is at its basis, the question: Why? When you gotta feed your family, it is not the time to ask that question. But it's good to reexamine and refine one's views in between meals Wink

    Applied ethics is a subset of philosophy, and yes there are differing views and schools of thought.

    Doing ok so far.  grin12

    Quote
    But disregarding philosophy altogether makes for some very unethical uses of science.

    Really? But you said it can be used for good or evil. If it can be used for good or evil, then disregarding it completely isn't obviously more likely to lead to ethical or unethical uses.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #63 - November 10, 2011, 08:06 AM


    Roll 'em and flick 'em of course. Duh. Tongue

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #64 - November 10, 2011, 08:53 AM



     Cheesy

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #65 - November 10, 2011, 05:02 PM

    It was pretttttty bad. Original point being that Feynman was full of shit when trying to discard all of philosophy.

    Did he?
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #66 - November 10, 2011, 05:08 PM

    pure mathematics ftw

    i get to think all day about theorems and shit that will never have any application whatsoever and still get a good job that pays off*

    *if i decide to sell my soul to finance
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #67 - November 10, 2011, 05:12 PM

    also:

  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #68 - November 10, 2011, 05:16 PM

  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #69 - November 10, 2011, 05:24 PM


    I was wondering when this was going to come up. I was going to come back with one about mathematicians being banned from physics conventions because they just went and ahead and assumed the speed of light was much higher at some point in time to explain away some anomaly (Physicist: "You can't do that." Mathematician: "No, you can't do that.")... but I can't find it. :(

    Also:








  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #70 - November 10, 2011, 05:33 PM

    Plus the whole emphasis on ‘purity’ is pretty Nazi–fied…
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #71 - November 10, 2011, 06:28 PM

    This thread was supposed to make fun of philosophy and now serious discussions have broken out.

    Damn you philosophy!!!!! finmad

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #72 - November 11, 2011, 07:04 AM



    More importantly, where is gladfly in this thread?  Wink

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #73 - November 11, 2011, 08:04 PM

    Bugger Gladfly.

    Ok, so where were we? IIRC, the proposal was that we need philosophy to balance science. After all, science is fundamentally amoral and is therefore open to the possibility of abuse, so we have to put our faith in another framework that is also fundamentally amoral in order to balance science.

    Sounds great. I'll sleep a lot better now.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #74 - November 11, 2011, 08:15 PM

    science doesn't need philosophy to get moralized, because philosophy does no such thing. we live in an amoral world and some people need to get used to it. i don't mean to say we should all be moral nihilists, you can have your personal philosophy all you want, but don't pretend the world gives a crap about you. the world doesn't know anything about rightness and wrongness. philosophy is as much a human construct as science.

  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #75 - November 11, 2011, 08:17 PM

    I'd agree with all that. So why the insistence that science needs philosophy to balance it? Frankly that sounds like something that some kids heard from their professor because he wanted to bignote his field, and they keep repeating it because they think it sounds cool..

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #76 - November 11, 2011, 08:56 PM

    we humans think too much and live too little. we think we're in control and the world can give us some sort of guideline to live by, whether through science or through philosophy. we forget that we're animals. it's sad that a lot of people can't stop turning everything into scientific explanations or data or philosophical judgments.
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #77 - November 11, 2011, 09:02 PM

    I'd agree with that too. Aboodykinz, you do realise you're starting to make sense? Are you sure you want to go down that path? It's really not appropriate behaviour for such a hallowed board.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #78 - November 11, 2011, 09:09 PM

    i'm an existential nihilist, i can turn on my "i don't give a crap" mode so easily it'd be disturbing if i actually gave a crap. i'm pretty sure allat has called me a sociopath. Cheesy
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #79 - November 11, 2011, 09:13 PM

    I called Ayn Rand a sociopath and said that what you were saying in the over-population thread sounded like her.

    Existential nihilism is a great philosophy, and I agree with it on an individual level, but I'll ask you and os what I asked saleri in another thread: "since you don't believe in any moral/ethical standards whatsoever, you are a-okay with any and all instances of slavery, child prostitution, rape, murder, genocide, is that correct? If you are not okay with any of those, give your reasons why".... or later on "what do you do if someone else does not have your moral intuitions and thinks it is just fine to do the things your moral intuition would not let you do?"

    And please don't say "because those things are against the law" because "the law" is only application of whatever philosophical positions are popular in its day.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #80 - November 11, 2011, 09:16 PM

    don't worry, i'm not passing a moral judgment on you. Cheesy

    whether something is okay or not is a judgment. and i didn't say i don't believe in any moral/ethical standards.
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #81 - November 11, 2011, 09:18 PM

    I called Ayn Rand a sociopath and said that what you were saying in the over-population thread sounded like her.

    Existential nihilism is a great philosophy, and I agree with it on an individual level, but I'll ask you and os what I asked saleri in another thread: "since you don't believe in any moral/ethical standards whatsoever, you are a-okay with any and all instances of slavery, child prostitution, rape, murder, genocide, is that correct? If you are not okay with any of those, give your reasons why".... or later on "what do you do if someone else does not have your moral intuitions and thinks it is just fine to do the things your moral intuition would not let you do?"

    And please don't say "because those things are against the law" because "the law" is only application of whatever philosophical positions are popular in its day.

    I wasn't going to mention the law. Grin

    Good questions. No, I'm not ok with all of that, but that is my personal preference and in itself says nothing whatsoever about objective standards.

    What do I do if someone "acts up"? If they're not hurting anyone else I'll probably let them go for it. If they are, I'll probably want to stop them. Again, this says nothing whatsoever about objective standards.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #82 - November 11, 2011, 09:22 PM

    whether something is okay or not is a judgment. and i didn't say i don't believe in any moral/ethical standards.


    What else if not a "judgement" is the belief that something is okay or not okay?

    If anyone has any moral/ethical standards, then they are going by a moral/ethical (GASP! PHILOSOPHICAL) framework, whatever that might be. Existential nihilism itself is a philosophy Wink

    Good questions. No, I'm not ok with all of that, but that is my personal preference and in itself says nothing whatsoever about objective standards.

    What do I do if someone "acts up"? If they're not hurting anyone else I'll probably let them go for it. If they are, I'll probably want to stop them. Again, this says nothing whatsoever about objective standards.


    Okay, so we are in agreement that nihilism is okay on a personal/individual level, but that's about it. If you are in a position to stop someone from committing those things I listed (if they are harming someone else, which those things would), you would stop them, that is not nihilism applied on a large scale - nihilism applied on a large scale does become sociopathic.

    Also, where, exactly did I say I believe in objective standards?

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #83 - November 11, 2011, 09:26 PM

    Okay, so we are in agreement that nihilism is okay on a personal/individual level, but that's about it.

    Yes. It's not a good basis for a workable society, at least IMHO. Now that is only IMHO. It is plausible that you could construct a society that functioned on that basis. How many people would like to live in it is another matter.

    Quote
    If you are in a position to stop someone from committing those things I listed (if they are harming someone else, which those things would), you would stop them, that is not nihilism applied on a large scale - nihilism applied on a large scale does become sociopathic.

    Yup, for sure. However that does not mean that it is actually wrong, in any objective sense.

    Quote
    Also, where, exactly did I say I believe in objective standards?

    Dunno. Did I say you did?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #84 - November 11, 2011, 09:33 PM

    You mentioned it twice in your earlier post, so I was wondering if you thought that is what I am arguing for, which I am certainly not. If anything, I am for embracing more arguments, more debates, more philosophical analysis (in general), and including subjectivity in them, and abandoning the illusion of objectivity altogether.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #85 - November 11, 2011, 09:35 PM

    you're missing my point. my point is that by asking me whether something is right or wrong you're asking for a moral judgment. yes i have moral judgments, but i also have the ability to see humans as animals.

    i'm not a moral nihilist, i'm an existential nihilist, and in that is the recognition that my beliefs are my own. i can see things as wrong, but on another level i can transcend my judgment and see things as what they are. we don't pass moral judgments on animals.
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #86 - November 11, 2011, 09:41 PM

    You mentioned it twice in your earlier post, so I was wondering if you thought that is what I am arguing for, which I am certainly not.

    I wasn't assuming that you were necessarily arguing for them, but it is a thing some people do tend to end up doing, so I was just pointing out that IMO they were up the creek without a paddle. grin12

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #87 - November 11, 2011, 09:50 PM

    you're missing my point. my point is that by asking me whether something is right or wrong you're asking for a moral judgment. yes i have moral judgments, but i also have the ability to see humans as animals.

    i'm not a moral nihilist, i'm an existential nihilist, and in that is the recognition that my beliefs are my own. i can see things as wrong, but on another level i can transcend my judgment and see things as what they are. we don't pass moral judgments on animals.


    Okay, so humans are animals (agreed). We don't pass moral judgements on (non-human) animals (agreed). So, just curious, by what standards/frameworks do you think you (or anyone else) can or should pass moral judgements on humans?

    I'm an existential nihilist too, btw, but not a moral nihilist.

    I wasn't assuming that you were necessarily arguing for them, but it is a thing some people do tend to end up doing, so I was just pointing out that IMO they were up the creek without a paddle. grin12


    Agreed.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #88 - November 11, 2011, 09:57 PM

    i don't know what my moral framework is, i need to write it down and systematize it.
  • Re: z0mg philololosophy s0xerz
     Reply #89 - November 11, 2011, 10:03 PM

    Okay, so humans are animals (agreed). We don't pass moral judgements on (non-human) animals (agreed).

    Well actually, we do tend to do that. "Good dog" "Bad dog" etc. Not that this is a rigorous application, of course, but people do it all the time.

    Quote
    So, just curious, by what standards/frameworks do you think you (or anyone else) can or should pass moral judgements on humans?

    It would have to come down to mental capacity, which incidentally is why we tend to use similar terms when dealing wit animals. If the animal has the capacity to know that certain behaviour is prohibited, we have no qualms about telling them they are bad.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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