Egypt : nudity against Islamism

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #30 - November 17, 2011, 12:34 PM

:nerd: ya'don't say.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #31 - November 17, 2011, 02:16 PM

Berbs? You actually looked at THAT pic? THOROUGHLY?
That's kind of hot

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #32 - November 17, 2011, 08:22 PM

There is more than just calling the Egyptian state to account. Her actions work on a number of interlocked levels. She challenges the traditional depiction and role of women in Egypt as clad and hidden, or at least in the *background*. She certainly challenges the state and its intrusive and censorial roles. She also delivers a very sharp beam focused on the rank moral hypocrisy, political cowardice and utter opportunism of some important players from within the ranks of the revolutionary forces themselves (notably the 6th April Youth Movement, who come out of this as fucktards)... one woman's nudity has delivered a lot of lessons.

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #33 - November 17, 2011, 08:25 PM

Yup. What Egypt needs is a horde of Lady Godivas. That would be awesome popcorn (and I don't just mean for the perv value).

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #34 - November 18, 2011, 07:11 AM

The story develops:
Check this out:
http://bikyamasr.com/48732/legal-action-against-egypt-nude-activist/

Quote
The first legal move against the nude revolutionary pictures have occurred as the Coalition of Islamic law graduates filed a case against activist Aliya Magda al-Mahdy and her boyfriend, and blogger, Kareem Amer, on Thursday accusing them of “violating morals, inciting indecency and insulting Islam.”

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #35 - November 18, 2011, 08:52 AM

This is part of a wider witch-hunt being whipped up by MB and its hangers-on against, in particular, radical students, teachers and others. In the hospitals and universities, MB have taken control of many of the elected offices. In one hospital near here, a very popular doctor, who happens to also be a member of the Communist Party, was stripped of his election win as Dean by an MB campaign against him on the grounds that "they should not have as their leader an atheist Communist".

Expect this campaign to go into overdrive after MB take power.

Iranians reading, especially ones of a certain age, may recognise a pattern here.

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #36 - November 18, 2011, 08:53 AM

Are they going to take power?

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #37 - November 18, 2011, 09:03 AM

They are the biggest single party. Most of the other parties are new, inexperienced and often terribly one-issue based, or simply vehicles for the ambitions of certain individuals. MB will probably not be able to form an outright majority, but will need support from other parties. These parties will enter into coalition with MB as a government.

MB are popular on the land amongst the peasantry (where they promise stability of markets and price controls) and amongst the new urban poor (peasants who have migrated to the cities), where MB have developed over years networks of social services in the face of the complete breakdown of state provision under the corruption of Mubarak. Being a mostly agricultural country still, Egypt is a conservative and traditional society too. MB and other parties are seeking to play up their status as upholders of traditional values (these include, in no particular order, misogyny, homophobia, anti-Semitism and religious intolerance), Challenges to thse traditions (as the young woman nude was attempting) will be met with almost universal condemnation.

The army want to get off the roundabout of direct rule. The army needs a political party strong enough to take over the day to day running of the country. The Egyptian army likes to be involved in politics, but not so directly. The army has, since the time of Sadat, been infiltrated at every level by Islamists or Islamist-friendly recruits. Tantawi, the present Chair of the SCAF was Egypt's military attache to Pakistan at ther height of the Soviet-Afghan War. His job was to direct Egyptian and other jihadi to the battle fronts and transport them there. He has many connections with many unsavory Islamist types and is noticeably religious himself. In short, the army do not object if MB win...

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #38 - November 18, 2011, 09:08 AM

Sounds nasty. So who are the MB most likely to go into coalition with?

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #39 - November 18, 2011, 09:15 AM

If you look at this map of the present set of no-hopers, ex-Mubarak harami and assorted spin-offs of spin-offs of parties formed a few months ago...

http://nilesider.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/new-map-of-egyptian-political-parties/

The range of options is almost limitless.

Unlike in Tunisia, where there was a long history of an organised and very active Left, the Left in Egypt is in pretty much of a shambles and MB have infiltrated many of the old-regime's tolerated industrial workers Syndics.

I suspect MB will form an alliance with centrist Liberals (NB April 6 Youth Movement, the fuckers behind the persecution of Ms el-Mahdi already describe themselves as "conservatives" in terms of traditional values but politically liberal). In any case, almost any of the other parties who are likely to gain seats will try to bargain their way into power, just for a little slice of the political/corruption action...

Egypt: revolution over, normal service resumed. Well, hello there, Pharaoh.

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #40 - November 18, 2011, 09:26 AM

Egypt could move on in a number of different directions - democracy or Islamist state.

Here is the danger, however: Egypt is not Tunisia. Ghannoushi and his pack of Islamists are facing opposition from a well-organised and well-defined secularist Left and Centre, that can rely upon the very strong traditions of secularism in the Tunisian urban centres to curtail the activities of the Tunisian al-ikhwaan.

In Egypt, this is not so. For decades, Islamists and fellow-travellers have been tacitly supported by the regime in order to first counter the threat from the one-time highly developed and secularist leaning working people's movements in Egypt (now crushed, dissipated and very much a thing of the past here), and latterly to counter the political support base of the Nasserist nationalists. Islamism almost started in Egypt and MB have been at it, in one way or another, for the better part of a century in Egypt.

Do not expect the Tunisian model (other than it will be, initially, an Islamist party in charge of a new democracy). The dangerous, explosively so, mix is Islamism + the strong political culture of nationalism in Egypt.

I am not a happy bunny.

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #41 - November 18, 2011, 09:32 AM

Here is also another danger:

Even amongst the opposition to Islamism, there are strong connections between default Islamist positions and the lines being campaigned along by the anti-Islamists. For example, the Egyptian Communist Party produces reams of fascinating position papers about land reform, the education system, workers' rights... and then falls into bed with the Islamists on the upholding of an entirely self-defeating (from the point of view of socialism) foundation-myth of modern Egypt that sees the radical nationalism of Nasser as some how progressive and necessary to support. MB, oddly do exactly the same - Nasser had an equivocating attitude to MB, despite the strange view in the West that he was some sort of secularist anti-MB leader.

So, whilst the ECP refuse to get involved with MB, you watch them in the future support the Islamists should the Islamists play the nationalist card - and they will.

Once all struggle is grasped, miracles are possible.

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #42 - November 18, 2011, 09:38 AM

Quote from: Abu Faris on November 18, 2011, 09:15 AM
...........In any case, almost any of the other parties who are likely to gain seats will try to bargain their way into power, just for a little slice of the political/corruption action...

Egypt: revolution over, normal service resumed. Well, hello there, Pharaoh.

TBH, this is pretty much what I suspected after your earlier comments about the new parties.

Quote from: Abu Faris on November 18, 2011, 09:26 AM
I am not a happy bunny.

Don't blame you. I'd be worried myself if I was living there.

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #43 - November 18, 2011, 09:40 AM

As a litmus test, one should ask an Egyptian what s/he thinks of Nasser.

If they say they like him, they will usually add some sort of proviso.

(1) I admire Nasser because he stood up to the imperialists and Zionists, but...

(a) He supported then persecuted MB and other religiously motivated players - this is the line of the Islamists.

(b) Nasser, he was good but went too far; sometimes we need to make compromises too and work with the West - this is the line of well-ecucated, liberals, conservatives and shills of the old Mubarak dispensation.

(c) Nasser - who he? - the line of Everyone Else.

If the Egyptian says s/he does not like Nasser, they will say this sotto voce. They will however say:

(2) I do not like Nasser, but...

And exactly the same arguments will be trotted out as the conjunct but with a suitably negative initial statement.

Everything is as in a mirror here. Follow my leader politics.

For example:

I do not like Nasser, but he did stand up to the imperialists and Zionists, etc, etc - the line of the anti-Nasserist Left and centre-Left.

Nasser: Egypt's Cromwell.

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #44 - November 18, 2011, 09:46 AM

Sorry if that was a bit incoherent. I have a filthy cold and I am trying to get my ideas in a line myself about What All This Means...

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #45 - November 18, 2011, 09:48 AM

Nasser, Egypt's Cromwell.

Well, at least to the extent that Nasser for Egyptians (like Cromwell for the British) - everyone has an opinion about him, most of these are utterly worthless.

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #46 - November 18, 2011, 09:55 AM

There is an interesting debate on related matters ticking over on Harry's Place, here: http://hurryupharry.org/2011/11/17/what-does-moderate-islamist-mean.

I'm involved... naturally.

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #47 - November 18, 2011, 10:16 AM

Quote from: Abu Faris on November 18, 2011, 09:55 AM
There is an interesting debate on related matters ticking over on Harry's Place, here: http://hurryupharry.org/2011/11/17/what-does-moderate-islamist-mean.

I'm involved... naturally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIDF3ASgBjQ

That guy was stupid to talk about Caliph Nonsense .. with all his educational background and spending enough time in jail he is till running into that Caliph rat hole to score a point and show the Tunisians he is another Islamic hero of 21st century.. Either He is fool to speak like that or he just over reacted..

Any ways greetings Mr. Abu Faris ., I wonder whether you can write few words on this Amil Imani's hard hitting article on Islam

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #48 - November 18, 2011, 10:20 AM

Thanks, I will take a butchers and get on to it...

Quote
He is fool to speak like that or he just over reacted

Or he has just blurted out, with the usual hot-temper of yer common or garden Islamist cadre, the real agenda of Ghannoushi and his "moderate Islamist" smoke-screen

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #49 - November 18, 2011, 10:50 AM

Oh and looking at that video clip... in Egypt no self-respecting Islamist would be without a very obvious and well-rubbed Prayer Bump.

Cock weasels, the lot of them...

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #50 - November 18, 2011, 11:31 AM

Quote from: Abu Faris on November 18, 2011, 09:03 AM
They are the biggest single party. Most of the other parties are new, inexperienced and often terribly one-issue based, or simply vehicles for the ambitions of certain individuals. MB will probably not be able to form an outright majority, but will need support from other parties. These parties will enter into coalition with MB as a government.

MB are popular on the land amongst the peasantry (where they promise stability of markets and price controls) and amongst the new urban poor (peasants who have migrated to the cities), where MB have developed over years networks of social services in the face of the complete breakdown of state provision under the corruption of Mubarak. Being a mostly agricultural country still, Egypt is a conservative and traditional society too. MB and other parties are seeking to play up their status as upholders of traditional values (these include, in no particular order, misogyny, homophobia, anti-Semitism and religious intolerance), Challenges to thse traditions (as the young woman nude was attempting) will be met with almost universal condemnation.

The army want to get off the roundabout of direct rule. The army needs a political party strong enough to take over the day to day running of the country. The Egyptian army likes to be involved in politics, but not so directly. The army has, since the time of Sadat, been infiltrated at every level by Islamists or Islamist-friendly recruits. Tantawi, the present Chair of the SCAF was Egypt's military attache to Pakistan at ther height of the Soviet-Afghan War. His job was to direct Egyptian and other jihadi to the battle fronts and transport them there. He has many connections with many unsavory Islamist types and is noticeably religious himself. In short, the army do not object if MB win...

Do you see Egypt becoming 'Pakistan-ised'?

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #51 - November 18, 2011, 11:40 AM

Quote from: Abu Faris on November 18, 2011, 10:20 AM
Thanks, I will take a butchers and get on to it...

Or he has just blurted out, with the usual hot-temper of yer common or garden Islamist cadre, the real agenda of Ghannoushi and his "moderate Islamist" smoke-screen

Ghannoushi writes alot for the Guardian, doesn't he? He definitely says what British liberals like to hear. But he speaks with forked tongue.

Did the Guardian ever provide balance in terms of giving a space for non Islamist Tunisian activists and politicians? I didn't follow its commentary coverage that closely. If they did, then credit to them for that, but it still strikes me as naive to take Islamists like him at face value.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #52 - November 18, 2011, 12:26 PM

These are all interesting and useful questions, Billy.

Certainly, the Pakistani model is more of Egypt's future, than the much-touted and entirely irrelevant Turkish model...

Ghannoushi and his beautiful daughter have been all over al-Guardian for at least a decade now, Talking with forked tongue are what they are all about. The Grauniad has form in the bigging-up-Islamists race, of course.

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #53 - November 18, 2011, 04:09 PM

@thread title

I don't think nudity is such a good tool in attempting to combat Islamism. But I'm not the geopolitical strategist here, so what would I know.

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #54 - November 18, 2011, 06:57 PM

For the arabic speakers, what kind of comments is she getting in her blog?
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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #55 - November 18, 2011, 07:00 PM

Quote from: asbdsp on November 18, 2011, 04:09 PM
@thread title

I don't think nudity is such a good tool in attempting to combat Islamism. But I'm not the geopolitical strategist here, so what would I know.

I agree with you. Nudity does exactly the opposite, as it is seen as a total perversion and lack of morality. It shouldn't be use at all in countries like Egypt, one step at a time!
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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #56 - November 18, 2011, 08:10 PM

Quote from: asbdsp on November 18, 2011, 04:09 PM
@thread title

I don't think nudity is such a good tool in attempting to combat Islamism. But I'm not the geopolitical strategist here, so what would I know.

that's pretty much what issandr el amrani said at the arabist.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #57 - November 19, 2011, 04:28 AM

El Amrani's "The Arabist" is always worth a read. Even if he does follow that terrible shill for the Syrian regime, Josh Landis, sometimes too often.

Look, when the spotlight is more on the behaviour of the protesters than it is on what they’re protesting, it’s a losing game. Time to take the campaign to a more focused and political level. The problem with this particular protest is, to an extent, that behaviour is what el-Mahdy was protesting about - so how one separates out these issues becomes problematic, to say the least.

There are issues of culture and conservativism that need addressing in Egypt. I think asserting that, one needs to be aware that unless the Egyptian Revolution does not confront the sorts of misanthropic traditions that abound in this rather conservative country, then - finally - the Revolution is doing itself a considerable disservice. However, all in all, I don't think you can separate or differentiate one point or site of struggle from others, save tactically. Strategically, the sorts of issues raised by el-Mahdy do require confrontation - just may be not just now.

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #58 - November 19, 2011, 04:37 AM

On the comments on her blog - they have ranged from supportive, to addressing the issues raised in my last post, to hair-raising, violent and angry comments from those under the influence of the religious nutters... to death threats.

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Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
Reply #59 - November 19, 2011, 04:44 AM

Quote
Nudity does exactly the opposite, as it is seen as a total perversion and lack of morality. It shouldn't be use at all in countries like Egypt, one step at a time!

Well, yes and no.

In "countries like Egypt". Egypt is not the backwoods of somewhere like Yemen, you know.

It is not seen as "total perversion and lack of morality" - it is seen as clashing with traditions that Egypt's sizable middle class see as regressive, medieval and as conformist. On the other hand, most of the people I have spoken to about this see the action as either irrelevant or vaguely amusing - a few think it is counter-productive.

The positive out of all this was that el-Madhy really exposed the canting, cowardly hypocrites of the April 6 Movement... not that most of us in Egypt had not already gathered this from their previous antics, frankly.

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