Also that muslim guy whatever his name was, he said we have to look at classical dictionaries, now I am interested what do the classic dictionaries say about that word Nutfa or whatever it was like, plus why does all this have to be so confusing when it comes to this.
Why would we need to pul our meaning from Nutfa which the muslim guy stated it means something from a group thing when it could have clearly said the woman has an egg and Spermatozoid comes from the semen and this two make the embryo etc etc....
Now what I am interested is, where is the Quran wrong about this and what do the classic dictionaries say about it?
The stuff in Hamza's paper page 12 about nutfa being a single entity from a larger group, and the citation to Lisan al-Arab, looks exactly like it's been taken from Osama Abdullah's article or one that uses it
http://www.answering-christianity.com/detailed_meanings_of_scientific_words_in_verses.htmHe says:
"نطفة (nutfah) is a single entity that is part of a bigger group of its kind:
النطف (al-nutaf): هي القرطة والواحدة من كل ذلك نطفة Nutaf are the karats, and a single one is a nutfah.
Note from me, Osama Abdallah: The Arabs 1,400 years ago were not scientific. They didn't know that a single sperm from man's semen going into the woman's egg forms the fetus. Yet as we see, Nutfa means exactly a single entity from among its group. This is obvious since Allah Almighty obviously didn't refer to the sperm as a gold-karat!"
So O. Abdallah is somehow personally deriving this generalized, single entity, part of bigger group definition from something else more specific (and of a very different nature to his generalization) in his source. I just checked the online lisan al arab, and the full line, with vocalization marks says: وقيل: هي القِرَطةُ، والواحدة من كل ذلك نَطَفة ونُطَفة، شبهت بقَطْرة الماء. The stuff about karats is using natafah, not nutfah. Natafah means earrings according to the lexicon. Abdullah also misses out the end of the line where I think it says "and nutafah, like a drop of water". In Lane's Lexicon for
nutfah it just says sperma [semen in 19th century-speak] of a man and of a woman.
Here's the lexicon for قرط (karat). It seems to have specific meanings to do with weights and gold (in Mecca a 20th of a gold dinar).
On Hamza's facebook he pretty much admitted that iERA hadn't checked the dictionary themselves.
I asked Hamza "Just to be clear, do you mean you have checked that page first hand in lisan al arab and it says what you say about single entity from a larger group"
His reply was: "I'll get you the full Arabic soon, let me get it translated by a brother who can insha'Allah." He's yet to reply and this was from Thursday.
Hamza's paper implies that iERA have checked lisan ul-Arab first hand and that it explicitly says this larger group thing, not just whatever it says about gold karats. Otherwise it is misleading and they lack sufficient grounds to make such an assertion in their paper without explaining how they derived it. If iERA hadn't checked it first hand, they should instead cite the answering-christianity site or wherever they got it from and explain how they derive that definition.
Topic: The Jinn And Tonic Show - December 3rd