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 Topic: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed

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  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #30 - December 07, 2011, 01:39 PM
    I think they probably got light sentences because they had no previous record and being unaccustomed to alcohol was accepted as a mitigating factor. 
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #31 - December 07, 2011, 02:04 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on December 07, 2011, 01:39 PM
    I think they probably got light sentences because they had no previous record and being unaccustomed to alcohol was accepted as a mitigating factor. 


    I think they wouldn't have gone to prison whether they were Muslims or not.  I used to go and sit in the court rooms and watch cases.  I've witnessed many more lenient sentences than these for drunken brawls.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #32 - December 07, 2011, 02:19 PM
    I don't know about that. I think Muslims are often handled with kiddie gloves by some who want to appear to be multicultural. Only really helps the racists' case get stronger.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #33 - December 07, 2011, 02:21 PM
    I have seen far more lenient sentences for people I can only assume weren't Muslims (and it certainly wasn't mentioned) - so were they handled with kid gloves too?

    I cannot help but think that people are making a bigger case of this than it actually is.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #34 - December 07, 2011, 02:22 PM
    Well do you think if they were not Muslim and had tried to use the "it was our first time drinking" excuse without religion to back that claim, it would have had the same result?
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #35 - December 07, 2011, 02:24 PM
    And why no major media coverage?

    If the story had instead been:

    A group of white girls kick and beat up a Muslim woman on the street, calling her racist slurs while beating her, leaving her traumatised, bruised and missing chunks of hair; the attack was caught on CCTV, they confessed to doing it, and they got off scott free.

    Do you think the media would have stayed so quiet? Or would there have been coverage everywhere, commentaries, apologies from the govt, embassy bombings, flag burnings etc etc?
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #36 - December 07, 2011, 02:28 PM
    A suspended sentence and community service aren't really getting off scot free, and as Rationalizer pointed out, such sentences frequently get handed to white people for similar offenses.  It doesn't usually end up with media coverage everywhere.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #37 - December 07, 2011, 02:30 PM
    It's cool of you guys to say that Afro Not denying that it doesn't happen in other cases. Just saying that the particular ethnic lines here make it a different case than others that may not involve such an obvious reversal of the usual game play.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #38 - December 07, 2011, 02:37 PM
    Exactly! This case strikes me as nothing more than completely typical and people seem to be making a big deal out of something which is entirely normal.

    I do think that racial attacks against white people are played down a lot by the press, probably because there are more white people in the UK, I don't know.  I once knew a guy who's cousin and friend were attacked by a group of about 20 Asian lads outside a nightclub.  They attacked them simply for being the only white people there, using various racial abuse before and during the attack.  The guy's cousin was stabbed to death during this racially motivated attack.  It didn't feature on TV news.  Coverage in local newspapers was sparse and low profile, and none of the reports mentioned the attackers were all Asian, nor that it was a racially motivated attack.  They simply gave vague information such as "A youth has been stabbed to death during a confrontation with a gang of youths...."

    Personally I don't care what the motivation is, the person should be punished in balance for their actions and not their motivations after taking into account mitigating circumstances.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #39 - December 07, 2011, 02:59 PM
    Wait, I call bullshit on the article. I don't think any judge (and I have read law about 3/4 years ago) will take drunkenness as a defense i.e. as a mitigating factor, that would set a precedent. It does not matter if you're used to drinking alcohol or not. I would have to look at the charge sheets, courts notes and sentencing guidelines and the mitigation evidence presented, but I still call bullshit that it was the being drunk that help them out of a custodial sentence.     
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #40 - December 07, 2011, 03:00 PM
    If being drunk is a mitigating factor, we need to revise the law on drunk driving Smiley
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #41 - December 07, 2011, 03:04 PM
    It's very likely that there is a lot more to the story, given that this is the fuckin Daily Mail. Now if only GOOD newspapers that y'know do investigating and shit, would find out and let us know, that'd be lovely. It does seem like an insanely stupid "mitigating factor". As Rationalizer is saying, UMMM WHAT ABOUT DRUNK DRIVING, hello?!
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #42 - December 07, 2011, 03:06 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on December 07, 2011, 10:40 AM
    Wow.

    I so should have used this excuse when I used to get nicked when I was younger.  I did not realise just how powerful it was as an excuse.  Damn, there is so much more crime I could have gotten away with if I had only thought to play the religion card.

    That is disgusting. 


    Also disgusting that no other paper is touching it.


    Its bollocks - I can tell you alcohol cannot be used as a defense (unless if you were spiked - which is exceptionally hard to prove) in fact saying you were drunk while committing the crime makes you even more culpable, the worst thing you can say is you were drunk, since then you've admitted guilt.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #43 - December 07, 2011, 03:16 PM
    I don't think its the drunkenness which was the mitigating factor, but their lack of experience with alcohol and presumably the claim that they wouldn't be drinking again due to their religion.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #44 - December 07, 2011, 03:20 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on December 07, 2011, 03:00 PM
    If being drunk is a mitigating factor, we need to revise the law on drunk driving Smiley


    It is not, any one with a little common sense would realize that, I think the article is trying to make the judge out to be an idiot.


    This applies to both Scottish and English law, basically on they are same on alcohol:

    Quote
    Intoxication as a mitigating factor

    4.7 Since the 1980s, High Court judgements have made it clear that alcohol or intoxication should not be regarded as a mitigating factor in the commission of crimes. However it is still the case that intoxication is often presented to the courts by the defence as an excuse or reason for offending behaviour. We know that this concerns a great many people in Scotland - particularly in relation to violent crime.4.8 We believe that being voluntarily drunk or intoxicated is never an excuse for offending. In our recent consultation paper on alcohol misuse, Changing Scotland's Relationship with Alcohol, we demonstrated that in 2006-07 it cost our criminal justice system and emergency services a total of £385 million to deal with the effects of alcohol misuse 5. We also know that there is a very strong link between alcohol and offending. For example, almost half (45%) of those serving a custodial sentence in 2007 said they were drunk at the time of the offence 6. Analysis carried out by Strathclyde Police has shown that, of the 5,000 prisoners processed by one Glasgow police station in 2006-7, over 60% were under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs 7.

     The same study revealed that a massive two-thirds of those detained for violence were under the influence of alcohol.4.9 Whilst it is not set out in statute, the Sentencing Guidelines Council for England and Wales has issued a guideline on seriousness and sentencing. Included in that guideline are lists of factors which would tend to indicate higher and lower culpability. One of the factors considered to indicate higher culpability is the commission of an offence while under the influence of alcohol or drugs. In New Zealand's aforementioned Sentencing Act 2002, voluntary intoxication has been listed as a 'statutorily excluded sentencing factor'.4.10 To make clear the fact that being drunk cannot be an excuse for offending behaviour, we propose to enshrine in statute that the commission of an offence while voluntarily under the influence of alcohol should not be considered as a mitigating factor by the courts.


    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2008/08/29100017/5

    So as I said bullshit article....

    I remember when I was reading law when I was about 22/24 I remember reading the drunkenness is not a defense and in fact increases your culpability.  
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #45 - December 07, 2011, 03:24 PM
    The judge should sue the paper for defamation.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #46 - December 07, 2011, 03:43 PM
    This is in the Telegraph
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #47 - December 07, 2011, 03:45 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on December 07, 2011, 03:24 PM
    The judge should sue the paper for defamation.

    yap.. that is the smart thing to do..Sue that rascal for  insulting Islam.. and it should be class action suit on behalf of 1.2 billion Muslim..  in fact ex- Muslim have the right to  do that..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #48 - December 07, 2011, 03:51 PM
    Quote from: Lilyesque on December 07, 2011, 03:43 PM
    This is in the Telegraph


    Could you provide a full URL please?
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #49 - December 07, 2011, 03:56 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on December 07, 2011, 03:51 PM
    Could you provide a full URL please?


    url
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #50 - December 07, 2011, 07:15 PM
    allat, i think you need to take social context into account. considering this isn't indicative of a wider social problem, and considering people like white nationalist EDL scumbags are bound to blow it out of proportion and claim that it is indeed part of a bigger problem, it makes sense that many media outlets have refused to report it.

    you might accuse them of bias, and sure, they are, but they would be biased either way. if this were reported they'd perpetrating further hatred towards the muslim community.

    journalists hold a lot of responsibility on what should be and what shouldn't be published. i think this was a situation of "damned if you do, damned if you don't."
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #51 - December 07, 2011, 07:25 PM
    More damned if you don't in this case. From the current news sources, it seems they got off lightly because they were muslims, were not used to drink and that is taken as a mitigating factor. The judges reputation is tarnished if this was not the case. I think it's irresponsible for other more reliable sources not to report on it and clarify the story. But then maybe its more complicated than this, however, it would be nice for someone sensible to clarify the situation.

    I do think the sentence is light. While some may get lighter sentences for more worse crimes, some also get heavier sentences for less severe crimes.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #52 - December 07, 2011, 07:32 PM
    Well, I definitely am not in disagreement with the social context argument. My point is not that that social context does not exist. My point is that by staying quiet about these kinds of issues and events, the media (and I know it's not a homogeneous Thing) play a role in reinforcing, reifying those social contexts.

    Quote from: Abood on December 07, 2011, 07:15 PM
    allat, i think you need to take social context into account. considering this isn't indicative of a wider social problem, and considering people like white nationalist EDL scumbags are bound to blow it out of proportion and claim that it is indeed part of a bigger problem, it makes sense that many media outlets have refused to report it.


    Yes exactly. Do you think those scumbags will not do that anyway? Information is everywhere, and those scumbags are more likely to read the Daily Mail anyway. They are hearing about this, and they are hearing about it from right-wing sources, and they are hearing that left-ish media are not willing to give this woman's beating the time of day, quite likely because she was beaten by people of a particular social group (which those scumbags already despise).

    Quote from: Abood on December 07, 2011, 07:15 PM
    you might accuse them of bias, and sure, they are, but they would be biased either way. if this were reported they'd perpetrating further hatred towards the muslim community.


    Sure yeah. Unless a journalist of, say, Somali or other Muslim background were to write about it. And the critique would also depend on the language and the interpretation that all media place on all stories they report. There are ways to report things without being a racist. Connecting this event to others done by non-muslims, non-somalis, by men, by non-british, etc. That would be one way, there are other ways that a decent journalist could think of.

    Quote from: Abood on December 07, 2011, 07:15 PM
    journalists hold a lot of responsibility on what should be and what shouldn't be published. i think this was a situation of "damned if you did, damned if you didn't."


    Yeah of course it is a difficult situation. But hey, that's the world...

    I agree with your general idea. There are many horrible ways to report this, and only a few possibly non-horrible ways to do so.

    But if the only place where this is being reported at all are right wing or BNP-friendly media, then we who are not either of those have excused ourselves from that conversation. That is what I think is hurtful, to muslim communities in particular.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #53 - December 07, 2011, 07:47 PM
    Quote from: Abood on December 07, 2011, 07:15 PM
    allat, i think you need to take social context into account. considering this isn't indicative of a wider social problem, and considering people like white nationalist EDL scumbags are bound to blow it out of proportion and claim that it is indeed part of a bigger problem, it makes sense that many media outlets have refused to report it.

    Question: if responsible news sources refuse to report on this sort of thing, and if you discount the less responsible sources, how would you determine if this is indicative of a wider problem or not?

    There have been other cases of racially motivated hate crimes against white people. There have been such cases in the UK, and there have been such cases in Australia. They may not make up the majority of racially motivated hate crimes, but they definitely do happen.

    Why should they not be reported like any other racially motivated hate crimes? Unless, of course, you wish to adopt racist principles.

    Quote
    you might accuse them of bias, and sure, they are, but they would be biased either way. if this were reported they'd perpetrating further hatred towards the muslim community.

    No. It's not a reflection on Muslims as a whole. It is a reflection on these particular girls, and on anyone who sympathises with them.

    And your point could be argued the other way: if this was not reported, it would send a message that kicking the crap out of white girls would be swept under the carpet as long as you were black. 

    Note that I don't particularly have a problem with the sentences they received. The only things that annoy me are their religion being accepted as a mitigating factor, and that there was a refusal to call this what it was: a racially motivated hate crime.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #54 - December 07, 2011, 07:48 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on December 07, 2011, 03:06 PM
    the worst thing you can say is you were drunk, since then you've admitted guilt.


    No, you are wrong.  The one and only time I was up in court on charges of ABH and shoplifting, I was given a 25 pound fine because I was drunk and admitted guilt.  The judges just laughed at my 'antics' when I explained how the drunken night progressed.

    I know alcohol is sometimes seen as a mitigating factor because I have used it myself.   Wink
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #55 - December 07, 2011, 07:52 PM
    You were a minor though.

    Anyways, that "sorry your honor, but I was drunk" defense hasn't flown in the US in a very long time-- they're more likely than anything to stiffen the penalty if you say that here.
    fuck you
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #56 - December 07, 2011, 08:40 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on December 07, 2011, 08:42 AM
    I don't hit anyone unless I must, and then I hit them hard. If they were touching my wife like that I'd have quickly dispatched them off to sleepy land.

    *brofist* Afro
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #57 - December 07, 2011, 08:49 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on December 07, 2011, 07:47 PM
    No. It's not a reflection on Muslims as a whole. It is a reflection on these particular girls, and on anyone who sympathises with them.

    muslims are a racialized community. their actions will be taken as indicative of the entire community.

    it's like terrorism. when one muslim does it, it's the entire community's fault. when a white person commits terrorism, it's an individual act. therein lies the difference.
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #58 - December 07, 2011, 08:50 PM
    I still say that such cases should be reported just the same as any other cases.

    A racially motivated hate crime is a racially motivated hate crime. Simple.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed
     Reply #59 - December 07, 2011, 09:02 PM
    i never argued that it shouldn't have been reported. but like allat said, it should've been done carefully. non-white on white hate crime does not exist on the same level as white on non-white hate crime. white people can commit as many hate crimes as they want and it will never ever be taken to represent every white person. when a muslim commits a crime, every muslim/brown person is held responsible. even ex-muslims are held responsible. hell, even sikhs are held responsible. it would be irresponsible and immoral for the media to act as if there was no difference and there would be no racist consequences.
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