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 Topic: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals

 (Read 4254 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     OP - January 16, 2012, 12:51 PM



    You horrible racist Islamophobes.

    Note the handy '5 myths' they include at the end to make sure everyone knows what to think.

    Support of the reactionary is progressive if its support for Islamic reactionaries. I think that is the logic.


    +++++



    Sharia law compatible with human rights, argues leading barrister

    David Shariatmadari

    The Guardian, Monday 16 January 2012

    Sadakat Kadri said religious courts such as the Muslim Arbitration Tribunal, could serve the community as a whole


    A leading barrister has called for the UK to become more sharia-literate, while arguing that Islamic law can be compatible with the toughest human rights legislation.

    Sadakat Kadri told the Guardian that so-called "sharia courts", such as the Muslim arbitration tribunal, could serve "the community as a whole" by putting Sharia on a transparent, public footing and should be more widely accessible to those who want to use them.

    Kadri said they played a role in safeguarding human rights: "It's very important that they be acknowledged and allowed to exist. So long as they're voluntary, which is crucial, it's in everyone's interests these things be transparent and publicly accessible. If you don't have open tribunals, they're going to happen anyway, but behind closed doors."

    In 2008, Rowan Williams, archbishop of Canterbury, sparked controversy when he appeared to suggest that sharia law should be more widely adopted.

    In fact, under the Arbitration Act 1996, the rulings of religious bodies, including the Muslim arbitration tribunal, already have legal force in disputes involving matters such as inheritance and divorce.

    Terry Sanderson, president of the National Secular Society, has long opposed the use of sharia in the UK, and argued the rule of law "must not be compromised by the introduction of a theocratic legal system operating in parallel".

    He said: "There can be no convincing case made for it to have even a toe-hold in western societies that have developed a mature and far superior legal system. I regard any legal system based on a theocratic model as being dangerous and innately unjust. There is no escaping the fact – whatever interpretation you put on it — that sharia treats women differently from men"

    But Kadri, a barrister and contemporary of Barack Obama at Harvard Law School, stresses the ability of sharia to adapt and change. He sets out the history of sharia in a book, Heaven and Earth, to be published on Friday 20 January. He describes the slow development of sharia law, which many assume to be derived directly from the Qur'an, in the centuries after the death of Muhammad.

    "After 7/7," he said, "people were saying the sharia is all about violence, it's all about chopping people's hands off, it's all about stoning adulterers to death. Others said it's nothing to do with that, Islam is a religion of peace. Clearly both of those things were true at a certain level, but very early on I just realised no one had a clue what sharia said about this or that."

    Sharia, which means "path" in Arabic, is the name Muslims give to a wide-ranging collection of ethical and legal principles that believers are expected to observe. It includes prohibitions on certain foods and alcohol, as well as the obligation to visit Mecca and give to charity.

    "I'm not a theologian," said Kadri. "But this is my interpretation of Islamic history. There's a mistaken belief that Islamic law is a vast unchanging body of rules – 1,400 years of Muslim history shows that little could be further from the truth."

    "It's really important that the Muslim community engage with its actual history, as well as idealised traditions. If that's to take root, critical engagement with the past among young Muslims will be crucially important."

    Kadri points out that many of the punishments associated in people's minds with sharia law have only been applied very recently. "I try to show how it's only really in the last 40 years, since Colonel Gaddafi in Libya, but more especially since the Iranian revolution in 1979 that the idea of enforcing Islamic rules through national laws has come to the fore. Before 1973, it was only Saudi Arabia which actually did that."
    Top five sharia myths

    That amputation is a typical punishment for theft in Muslim countries

    Of the world's 50 or so Muslim-majority states, only about half a dozen allow for amputations and at least one of those countries – Pakistan – has never carried out the penalty in practice

    That veiling is mandatory under sharia law

    Women are simply advised by the Qur'an to wear modest clothing and – like men – to lower their eyes and maintain their chastity

    That suicide bombing is permissable under sharia law

    Most interpreters of the Qur'an understand it to forbid suicide. The first suicide bombing by Muslims was carried out in 1983 during the Lebanese civil war

    Stoning is mentioned in the Qur'an

    Stoning is not mentioned as a punishment in the Qur'an. It was institutionalised on the basis of hadiths (reports about Muhammad) which were themselves not written down until more than a century after his death

    Capital punishment for apostasy is mentioned by the Qur'an

    The Qur'an repeatedly warns believers who abandon their faith that they will have to account to God in the afterlife, but it does not provide for their punishment on earth. Again, it was hadiths that later served to justify the death penalty


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/16/sharia-law-compatible-human-rights?newsfeed=true




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #1 - January 16, 2012, 12:54 PM

    I wonder what colour the sky is on his planet.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #2 - January 16, 2012, 01:39 PM


    Sharia law compatible with human rights, argues leading barrister
    .......................
    Sadakat Kadri said  
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/16/sharia-law-compatible-human-rights?newsfeed=tru


    well I guess that guy is trying to sell his book apart selective cherries from Islamic rules w.r.t Sharia



    His background with reference to sharia law and Islamic history is next to nothing .. He is just cherry picking events from Islam to write a silly book. The proof is in pudding and it is all over Islamic world in the Islamic history.. The pudding is nothing but poop., it doesn't matter how much Ghee and sugar  this Half-Finnish and half-Pakistani guy  living London adds in to that Sharia law.. the smell of that Sharia poop is just nothing but Stench

    oops .. the book cover looks like this



    Hmm.. Heaven on Earth.. a Journey through Sharia Law.. . that is the book..  Well Sadakat Kadri  Go..go.. go to heaven.. Take London plane or plane from Saudi Arabia  ..leave the people on earth alone.. take that bath room stone



    along with you for Sharia poop..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #3 - January 16, 2012, 01:49 PM

    That article is not worth the paper its written on.

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #4 - January 16, 2012, 01:54 PM


    Meanwhile, in the BBC:

    ++++

    Growing use of Sharia by UK Muslims

    The use of Sharia, or Islamic religious law, is growing in Britain, with thousands of Muslims using it to settle disputes each year, but women's groups and some others are objecting........

    ..........Despite the growing demand for Sharia law in Britain, there is also increasing opposition by some groups who argue that the practice discriminates against women.

    The Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation (IKWRO) is campaigning to bring an end to the practice.

    ''We have spoken to many women and all of them tell us the same story; Sharia law is not providing them with the justice they seek. The councils are dominated by men, who are making judgements in favour of men,'' said Diana Nammi.

    Concerns such as these have led crossbench peer Baroness Cox to introduce a bill before the House of Lords, aimed at introducing regulation of Sharia organisations in the UK.

    The bill has received its first reading and is expected to get a second reading later this year.

    But for groups like IKWRO the bill does not go far enough.

    ''We think there shouldn't be any religious law practising in Britain - all Sharia bodies should be banned. That is the only way we can ensure equality of justice for all women," argues Diana Nammi.

    But while a demand for Sharia continues in Britain, Sheikh Haitham al-Haddad says the practice cannot be banned.

    ''We are not forcing people to walk through our doors. They are voluntarily coming to us,'' he said.

    ''If you ban us, then British Muslims will find somewhere else to go.

    ''Many will go to Muslim countries abroad, where there will be no way to protect them.''

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16522447






    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #5 - January 16, 2012, 01:56 PM


    Note Sheikh Haitham al-Haddad makes a threat - don't scrutinise us or else women will be forced to go to Muslim countries where they have no protection - ie: give us what we want or else.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #6 - January 16, 2012, 02:01 PM

    Kadri said they played a role in safeguarding human rights: "It's very important that they be acknowledged and allowed to exist. So long as they're voluntary, which is crucial, it's in everyone's interests these things be transparent and publicly accessible. If you don't have open tribunals, they're going to happen anyway, but behind closed doors."


    Notice exactly that billy and all others.  Its a de facto threat: "If we cant have sharia tribunals, it will happen anyways...."

    Quote
    Sharia, which means "path" in Arabic, is the name Muslims give to a wide-ranging collection of ethical and legal principles that believers are expected to observe. It includes prohibitions on certain foods and alcohol, as well as the obligation to visit Mecca and give to charity.


    Oh fuck off. You can give charity without oppressing women and children.

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #7 - January 16, 2012, 02:42 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT8s1a1E4nk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY6R05byD1s

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxap-iiCgAQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM4ODjVMc2s

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH0XOTXmXK0


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #8 - January 16, 2012, 04:02 PM

    Quote
    Of the world's 50 or so Muslim-majority states, only about half a dozen allow for amputations and at least one of those countries


    That's one too many.

    Quote
    It includes prohibitions on certain foods and alcohol,

    Religion made laws assigning what is immoral. Even today the number of people who follow such laws are very slim.

    Quote
    obligation to visit Mecca and give to charity.


    Many people other other faiths and non-faiths do charity on their own free will. Without obligation and without singling out a specific group deemed suitable for charity based on faith. Nothing to really be proud of, charity should be genuine and honest not forced.

    As for the last few statements, it's very apologetic running around loop-holes such as; it is interpreted differently.

    I think it's amusing how Sharia law is trying to play catch up, to make it more appealing based on what the west sees as cruel and unfair. Also there is no point in trying to make Sharia law universal even among Muslims when different degrees of it are practiced differently in different countries. It breaks the whole system.

     


     




    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #9 - January 16, 2012, 06:53 PM

    while these things may NOT be in the quran, remember
    the beardos who have all agreed on this and that, and
    those decisions are stronger than the hadiths themselves
    and CANNOT be overruled or changed.

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #10 - January 16, 2012, 08:24 PM

    Stoning is mentioned in the Qur'an

    Stoning is not mentioned as a punishment in the Qur'an. It was institutionalised on the basis of hadiths (reports about Muhammad) which were themselves not written down until more than a century after his death

    Capital punishment for apostasy is mentioned by the Qur'an

    The Qur'an repeatedly warns believers who abandon their faith that they will have to account to God in the afterlife, but it does not provide for their punishment on earth. Again, it was hadiths that later served to justify the death penalty

    I totally love this. An article about how sharia is not as bad as it's cracked up to be, and he's trying to divert attention from the fact that these punishments are part of sharia.

    He also fails to mention that Muslims only know how to do some other important practices because they are defined in hadith.

    Twat.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #11 - January 16, 2012, 08:25 PM

    Meanwhile, in the BBC:

    ++++

    Growing use of Sharia by UK Muslims

    The use of Sharia, or Islamic religious law, is growing in Britain, with thousands of Muslims using it to settle disputes each year, but women's groups and some others are objecting........

    ..........Despite the growing demand for Sharia law in Britain, there is also increasing opposition by some groups who argue that the practice discriminates against women.

    The Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation (IKWRO) is campaigning to bring an end to the practice.

    ''We have spoken to many women and all of them tell us the same story; Sharia law is not providing them with the justice they seek. The councils are dominated by men, who are making judgements in favour of men,'' said Diana Nammi.

    Don't worry about her. She's just an Islamophobe.

    This reminds me of the situation in Australia with Aboriginal law. You have some people saying that tribes on traditional tribal land should be able to live under their traditional laws. You also have young Aboriginal women saying no bloody way, and they'd much rather live under state and federal law, thank you very much.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #12 - January 16, 2012, 08:57 PM

    Quote
    But while a demand for Sharia continues in Britain, Sheikh Haitham al-Haddad says the practice cannot be banned.


    Try replacing the word sharia above with slavery...

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #13 - January 16, 2012, 09:00 PM

    Quote
    the obligation to visit Mecca and give to charity.


    Actually, I thought it was a basis of ethics that if you are told that you must give to charity, the act of charitable giving is thereby made immoral because it is a forced act, not an act of free will.

    What was the Nuremberg defence - I was following orders?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #14 - January 16, 2012, 09:05 PM

    Would it not be very easy to get a sharia court to judge that a young girl must undergo fgm?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #15 - January 16, 2012, 09:14 PM

    I think it would depend on the sharia court. If it was composed of men from a country where fgm was traditional, then maybe. Otherwise, no.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #16 - January 16, 2012, 09:58 PM

    I had assumed that.  But a similar thing, agreeing to an honour killing?  Blasphemy punishment? 

    Do they do hypothetical, what ifs?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #17 - January 16, 2012, 10:00 PM

    Ask them. Smiley

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #18 - January 16, 2012, 10:10 PM



    Quote
    Half-Finnish and half-Pakistani, Sadakat Kadri was born in London in 1964. He studied history and law at Trinity College, Cambridge, where he graduated with a first, and has a master’s degree from Harvard Law School. He is a member of the New York Bar and has worked as a volunteer with the American Civil Liberties Union, where he specialised in free speech issues. He spent two and a half years in Manhattan writing The Trial,  having arrived shortly before September 11 2001, but lives in London and practises at Doughty Street Chambers.  As a barrister he has represented several Caribbean death-row prisoners, assisted in the prosecution of former Malawian president Hastings Banda for murder, and helped to establish the illegality of a military dictatorship in Fiji. He writes a regular column for the New Statesman.

    He is an interesting guy., It appears that he has not read enough on the subject..
    Quote
    Beyond the law, he is an occasional travel writer. His Cadogan Guide to Prague, written between late 1989 and early 1991, was the first guide to the Czech capital to be published after the Velvet Revolution, and was shortlisted for a Thomas Cook award in 1991. He updated it twice during the 1990s. He also won the 1998 Spectator/Shiva Naipaul Memorial Prize for an account of a trip to Malawi.

    well he should have asked Shiva Naipaul's brother's opinion on that Sharia laws..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #19 - January 16, 2012, 10:18 PM

    Hmm Doughty Street are a leading chamber on human rights, and know for example a huge amount about rights of disabled people.  Methinks someone has lost the plot somewhere.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: The Guardian says don't worry about sharia tribunals
     Reply #20 - January 16, 2012, 10:36 PM

    Hmm Doughty Street are a leading chamber on human rights, and know for example a huge amount about rights of disabled people.  Methinks someone has lost the plot somewhere.

    that is what bothers me., I think the guy is NOT well informed on the subject, neither he has done an independent research..

    what he must have cherry  picked   in that book is,   Goody goody rules and goody goody stories of Sharia law(Off course I have NOT read his book). In the first place, It is ridiculous to say any laws are god made and then impose on people leaving the interpretation of those laws to babboons ..

    I can assure any one who is Pro-sharia law dead heads and every one who thinks Sharia laws are good., All those goody laws and goody rules that one may cherry pick from Sharia laws for humane  society are already there in every culture, in every civilized country.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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