Muslim Friends

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- deadlysinzzz
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Muslim Friends
OP - March 06, 2012, 04:21 PM

Hey people

I was recently hanging out with a few of my old friends who are Muslim (no one knows I'm an atheist now) none of them are more religious than i was before, but there are some times when they mention things about Islam I feel kind of awkward, for example talking about attending Jumma amongst other things, i was just wondering if anyone has the same feelings?

Also if i want to talk to a Muslim friend about atheism and getting them to think outside of religion how can approach the subject subtly? what would be an easy/subtle way to get them to ask questions themselves?

Any ideas would be appreciated!
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #1 - March 06, 2012, 04:25 PM

What country you in?

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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #2 - March 06, 2012, 07:14 PM

Quote from: deadlysinzzz on March 06, 2012, 04:21 PM
Also if i want to talk to a Muslim friend about atheism and getting them to think outside of religion how can approach the subject subtly? what would be an easy/subtle way to get them to ask questions themselves?

Cosmos by Carl Sagan is good start, either the book or DVD set.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7n71pm0K04

I'd also advise checking out Jeffrey Lang and Irshad Manji's perspective on Islam and discussing some of arguments.

An alternative to religion;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #3 - March 13, 2012, 03:09 AM

Quote
Also if i want to talk to a Muslim friend about atheism and getting them to think outside of religion how can approach the subject subtly? what would be an easy/subtle way to get them to ask questions themselves?

Just say: " So guys I recently came to the conclusion that Islam is a load of crap and now I'm an atheist. ( Hands them a copy of The God Delusion ) "

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #4 - March 13, 2012, 07:27 AM

Quote from: deadlysinzzz on March 06, 2012, 04:21 PM
Hey people

I was recently hanging out with a few of my old friends who are Muslim (no one knows I'm an atheist now) none of them are more religious than i was before, but there are some times when they mention things about Islam I feel kind of awkward, for example talking about attending Jumma amongst other things, i was just wondering if anyone has the same feelings?

Also if i want to talk to a Muslim friend about atheism and getting them to think outside of religion how can approach the subject subtly? what would be an easy/subtle way to get them to ask questions themselves?

Any ideas would be appreciated!

I don't think there's a need to 'evangelise atheism' to your friends. But, if you want to, you should just have general life discussions with them where you start off debunking the idea of organised religion and then move on to the idea of a creator.

But again, as long as they aren't bothering you, and they are happy with their lives, and they are productive members of society, I don't see the point.

Oh, and welcome, enjoy your stay, have a parrot samosa.

"Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

What apple stores are like.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #5 - March 13, 2012, 12:40 PM

On the contrary, I think that we have a duty to spread atheism for the good of the Human race. If friends are not the sort to kill ex-Muslims or Atheists, please consider seriously how best to evangelize to them.

Interested in Buddhism? Check out http://www.accesstoinsight.org/!
Consider Nalanda University, and never let it happen again.
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #6 - March 13, 2012, 12:45 PM

Humans are irrational whether they are atheists or religious, the only difference is as atheists they will find another ideology to divide themselves into. I'm all for secularising fanatics and promoting rationality, but 'atheism' itself isn't a solution as an ideology.

But to each his own, you can spread what you like, as long as it isn't an STD.

"Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

What apple stores are like.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #7 - March 13, 2012, 12:50 PM

Atheism certainly encourages rationalism more than Islam, though.

Interested in Buddhism? Check out http://www.accesstoinsight.org/!
Consider Nalanda University, and never let it happen again.
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #8 - March 13, 2012, 01:06 PM

It depends on the person.

"Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

What apple stores are like.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #9 - March 13, 2012, 01:53 PM

Quote from: YellowSky on March 13, 2012, 12:40 PM
On the contrary, I think that we have a duty to spread atheism for the good of the Human race. If friends are not the sort to kill ex-Muslims or Atheists, please consider seriously how best to evangelize to them.

For the good of the human race? Have you considered that some people NEED religion to function, if you're going to take away one method of coping and dealing with life, especially certain people who have developed strong emotional dependencies on their religion, you better have a pretty good transitional method to help them too and not just take it away and convince them there's no god etc and then be 'you're on your own now' now deal with the crap of trying to find a new belief system (and I mean belief in SOMETHING, everybody needs to belief in something, if not themselves then something external to drive them through life.

If an individuals belief isn't leading them to hurt others, then let them be I say.

"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #10 - March 13, 2012, 01:54 PM

This^^^^^^^

"Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

What apple stores are like.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #11 - March 13, 2012, 02:05 PM

Atheism is a good thing to advocate for, not as an end in itself, but because it is part of that healthy spectrum of questioning, dissent, scepticism, and iconoclasm that marks pluralistic, tolerant societies.

It is allied to the existence of cultures in which free conscience and free speech exist, in which the totalising truth claims of prosletysing religions are repudiated.

This means a culture in which shibboleths are challenged, the individual and their rights are privileged over the collective, in which women's rights are fought for, in which patriarchy and misogyny is exposed, in which critical minds bloom, in which science and rationality guide debate and discourse.

Atheism is a fruit of this kind of society. A society in which the absolutist claims of literalist religiosity are denied in public and open debate is a better society than one in which there is fear, inhibition and self censorship. In which religions like Christianity can be challenged and castrated and neutered of their bigotry and power. A fate that is long overdue to Islam.

It is what atheism tells us about the health of a society and its culture of openness that matters. Certainly not as an ideological utopian idea. But how the presence of this flower in a particular garden is indicative of a wider truth.

(of course the metaphor extends further - there are many different flowers and plants in this garden - you can imagine which are weeds that seek to turn the garden barren and devoid of colour and difference because it believes there can be only one flora and fauna)

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #12 - March 13, 2012, 03:20 PM

I'm all for public intellectuals advocating atheism (and any other point of view) in the market of ideas, yes, but that's different from proselytizing to one's friends. If religion is making someone happy, and they're not shoving it down anyone's throat, and they're not particularly interested in atheism, then I think thinking of them as targets for proselytism is a bit demeaning (not to mention quite annoying, from their point of view). That doesn't mean free public debate has to be stifled.

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #13 - March 13, 2012, 04:33 PM

Quote from: billy on March 13, 2012, 02:05 PM

Atheism is a good thing to advocate for, not as an end in itself, but because it is part of that healthy spectrum of questioning, dissent, scepticism, and iconoclasm that marks pluralistic, tolerant societies.

It is allied to the existence of cultures in which free conscience and free speech exist, in which the totalising truth claims of prosletysing religions are repudiated.

This means a culture in which shibboleths are challenged, the individual and their rights are privileged over the collective, in which women's rights are fought for, in which patriarchy and misogyny is exposed, in which critical minds bloom, in which science and rationality guide debate and discourse.

Atheism is a fruit of this kind of society. A society in which the absolutist claims of literalist religiosity are denied in public and open debate is a better society than one in which there is fear, inhibition and self censorship. In which religions like Christianity can be challenged and castrated and neutered of their bigotry and power. A fate that is long overdue to Islam.

It is what atheism tells us about the health of a society and its culture of openness that matters. Certainly not as an ideological utopian idea. But how the presence of this flower in a particular garden is indicative of a wider truth.

(of course the metaphor extends further - there are many different flowers and plants in this garden - you can imagine which are weeds that seek to turn the garden barren and devoid of colour and difference because it believes there can be only one flora and fauna)

+1

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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #14 - March 13, 2012, 06:41 PM

ask them questions that dont pin YOU down, but things like

"i saw this program about one day people living on mars and beyond
what do you think about that?"

or

"I saw a program about the origins of humans. And they have
evidence (bones., skulls, etc) it makes me wonder about things.
What do you think?

that way, even if they blow it off, it may plant a seed for them to
do research themselves.

When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #15 - March 25, 2012, 05:09 AM

Quote from: stardust on March 13, 2012, 01:53 PM
For the good of the human race? Have you considered that some people NEED religion to function, if you're going to take away one method of coping and dealing with life, especially certain people who have developed strong emotional dependencies on their religion, you better have a pretty good transitional method to help them too and not just take it away and convince them there's no god etc and then be 'you're on your own now' now deal with the crap of trying to find a new belief system (and I mean belief in SOMETHING, everybody needs to belief in something, if not themselves then something external to drive them through life.

If an individuals belief isn't leading them to hurt others, then let them be I say.

I agree I mean if you think about it. Religion thrives in the harshest places to live in the world. Religion gives people a sense of hope of a better after life. Atheism/ non-religious people usually thrives in prosperous countries which are stable in society and rich in resources.

***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #16 - April 11, 2012, 07:01 PM

Quote from: billy on March 13, 2012, 02:05 PM

Atheism is a good thing to advocate for, not as an end in itself, but because it is part of that healthy spectrum of questioning, dissent, scepticism, and iconoclasm that marks pluralistic, tolerant societies.

It is allied to the existence of cultures in which free conscience and free speech exist, in which the totalising truth claims of prosletysing religions are repudiated.

This means a culture in which shibboleths are challenged, the individual and their rights are privileged over the collective, in which women's rights are fought for, in which patriarchy and misogyny is exposed, in which critical minds bloom, in which science and rationality guide debate and discourse.

Atheism is a fruit of this kind of society. A society in which the absolutist claims of literalist religiosity are denied in public and open debate is a better society than one in which there is fear, inhibition and self censorship. In which religions like Christianity can be challenged and castrated and neutered of their bigotry and power. A fate that is long overdue to Islam.

It is what atheism tells us about the health of a society and its culture of openness that matters. Certainly not as an ideological utopian idea. But how the presence of this flower in a particular garden is indicative of a wider truth.

(of course the metaphor extends further - there are many different flowers and plants in this garden - you can imagine which are weeds that seek to turn the garden barren and devoid of colour and difference because it believes there can be only one flora and fauna)

Damn you are good Billy! Did you make all of that up yourself? Or are you quoting?
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #17 - April 11, 2012, 07:13 PM

billy says
Quote from: billy on March 13, 2012, 02:05 PM

Atheism is a good thing.......................

and Tonyt writes
Quote from: Tonyt on April 11, 2012, 07:01 PM
Damn you are good Billy! Did you make all of that up yourself? Or are you quoting?

No..no.. billy is not quoting.. he is writing., Basically when billy talks about Atheism he becomes an Atheism EVANGELIST Tonyt

Yap. billy the "Atheism EVANGELIST" ............ lol....

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #18 - April 11, 2012, 07:26 PM

I'm not an evangelist for atheism my friend. I just like the chemistry that is produced when atheism is freely available as an element within a society - nice compounds like free conscience, liberal freedoms, the dignity of the individual, the sceptical, questioning intelligence of men and women appear in the laboratory when atheism is part of the experiment. It has diffused consequences without even being confrontational. The things that exist alongside it balance out the certainties of the god-followers - it shames them into moderation.

Its a good element to have on the periodic table. Its a good enzyme or catalyst for our social biology, yeezee.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Muslim Friends
Reply #19 - April 27, 2012, 02:03 AM

If you want to have an open discussion with your friends, you can have it.
You won't need to admit you're an athiest. I'd focus more on practical things though, rather than the rather abstract does god exist question.

Things like:
Do you think your hindu friends are going to hell even though they're good people?
Why do we pray 5 times a day, when it's not in the Koran? Other sects pray differently?
Why is Islamic culture so against drinking when it's barely mentioned in the Koran?
Do you think too much of Islam is arabic culture?
...

Those kinds of questions can be had. I had them even when I was religious.
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