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 Topic: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12

 (Read 7801 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     OP - March 20, 2012, 06:05 PM

    Just wanted to post this, I don't think anyone else has.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01dxzzv/Panorama_Britains_Crimes_of_Honour/

    It's a half an hour long documentary by panorama of the BBC about crimes of honour in the UK, it extends beyond honour killing into abuse and violence, I found it interesting, I was also shocked to find that in a recent crime survey, 39 out of 52 police forces across the UK reported 2823 incidents with 'honour' at the forefront-and this has risen by 47% from 2010!

    This guardian article is a few months old, and may have already been posted but I just wanted to bring people's attentions to this rise.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/03/honour-crimes-uk-rising

    Anyway, if you have half an hour and are interested in this topic i would recommend the panorama documentary. Non-UK users may be able to view it, if they can't, try a British proxy site or try youtube over the next few days, these are usually uploaded onto youtube afterwards.

    Thanks



    EDIT: Youtube links

    Part 1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyWhoDWysb0

    Part 2

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYCD-bjXSIk

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #1 - March 20, 2012, 09:34 PM


    I can´t view the video and therefore do not know if the poll mentioned in the article below is mentioned in the Panorama program :

    Quote
    British Asians back family 'honour'

    Two-thirds of young British Asians believe families should live according to the concept of “honour”, a new poll suggests.

    According to the survey for the BBC's Panorama programme, 18% of the 500 people questioned felt certain behaviour by a woman which could affect her family's honour was justification for physical punishment.

    Such behaviour included disobeying her father, and wanting to leave an existing or pre-arranged marriage, the BBC reported.

    The research, carried out for the broadcaster by ComRes, quizzed young Asians living in Britain between the ages of 16 and 34.

    It found 69% agreed that families should live according to honour.

    This figure rose to 75% among young men, compared with 63% of young women, it was reported.

    Only 3% said there was ever a justification for so-called "honour killings".

    This rose to 6% among the young Asian men surveyed, compared with 1% of the women.

    A survey of police forces by the Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation (IKWRO) in November found there were almost eight incidences of honour crimes a day, it was reported, although 13 of 52 forces did not supply the charity with a breakdown.

    Nazir Afzal, of the Crown Prosecution Service, said the true figure of honour killings is unknown, and could be between 10 and 12 a year in Britain.

    Mr Afzal, who said there were 10,000 forced marriages in the UK every year, told the broadcaster: "Forced marriage is the earthquake and what's followed is a tsunami of domestic abuse, sexual abuse, child protection issues, suicide and murder.

    "If we can tackle forced marriage then we can prevent all these other things from happening."



    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-asians-back-family-honour-7577031.html

    Sad that 2/3 still have this attitude. There is a long way to go yet.

    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #2 - March 20, 2012, 09:51 PM

    check out the film "land, gold, women"
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #3 - March 20, 2012, 09:54 PM

    I can´t view the video and therefore do not know if the poll mentioned in the article below is mentioned in the Panorama program :


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-asians-back-family-honour-7577031.html

    Sad that 2/3 still have this attitude. There is a long way to go yet.


    LOL what? It says

    Quote
    It found 69% agreed that families should live according to honour.



    It never explains how they interpret "honour". My family are quite big on the "honour" thing, or as desi call it "izzat". I'd hurt their izzat more if I was seen say badmouthing someone than I would by not covering my hair (never have btw). I believe in some forms of izzat myself, that's probably coz of my ego. As for "honour killings" the support for such acts is very low as the poll suggests:

    Quote
    Only 3% said there was ever a justification for so-called "honour killings".

    This rose to 6% among the young Asian men surveyed, compared with 1% of the women.

  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #4 - March 20, 2012, 10:15 PM

    yanks are not authorized to view it D:

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #5 - March 20, 2012, 10:17 PM

    Yeah sorry about that, it's as part of a new measure to stop bloody foreigners getting access to all the good  stuff.

    I'm just kidding of course, it's because of legal issues relating to showing British shows abroad, it should be uploaded onto youtube in the next few days, if and when it is, I'll come back and post youtube links. Until then, proxies are available (google british/uk proxies)

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #6 - March 20, 2012, 10:20 PM

    LOL what? It says


    It never explains how they interpret "honour". My family are quite big on the "honour" thing, or as desi call it "izzat". I'd hurt their izzat more if I was seen say badmouthing someone than I would by not covering my hair (never have btw). I believe in some forms of izzat myself, that's probably coz of my ego. As for "honour killings" the support for such acts is very low as the poll suggests:



    True, but I think the issue isn't necessarily the 3% then 6% who agreed with honour killings, but as to what proporation of the 69% would be varyingly sympathetic to an honour killing or cover/help a family member. Anyway, I agreed with the proposal regarding education measures for school children, it seems the younger age group (13-18) has more radical views than the slightly older age group (18-25), which is worrying.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #7 - March 20, 2012, 10:20 PM

    i really appreciate that sprout! Thank you!   Smiley

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #8 - March 20, 2012, 10:21 PM

    they need to bring up FGM in the Euro school systems too!   finmad

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #9 - March 20, 2012, 10:28 PM

    I don't know how prevalent FGM is amongst British South Asians and Middle Easterners, I think it's more common in North Africa/East Africa, but that's just a guess.

    What FGM/honour really ties into is how people percieve culture and how culture is often thought of as sacred and automatically right-this applies to all communities. However, it is more pertinent with minority religious communities (especially the Muslim community), who (often rightly) feal pressured and discriminated against and therefore bind themselves to their religion/culture and turn it into a sacred issue. Rather than skirt around the problem, avoid it altogether or pretend it doesn't exist, schools and other government institutes really should be educating communities, especially the youth about critical thinking, reasoning, self-reflection, free-speech, individual rights and the actual rather than perceived value of culture and how it should be allowed to evolve.

    Otherwise communities will become more mraginalized and self-segregated as well as discriminated against than they already are.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #10 - March 21, 2012, 07:03 AM

    Anyway, for non-UK residents who are interested, here is the documentary as promised.

    Part 1 (Veoh)

    http://www.veoh.com/watch/yapi-EyWhoDWysb0

    Part 2 (Youtube)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYCD-bjXSIk


    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #11 - March 21, 2012, 07:27 AM

    I don't know how prevalent FGM is amongst British South Asians and Middle Easterners, I think it's more common in North Africa/East Africa, but that's just a guess.

    It's happening to London to Somali girls. The summer holidays is the chopping season.

    Why nothing is done about it I have no idea. If I can spot a poor eight-year-old waddling pigeon-toed down the North End Road in Fulham, then surely the authorities can.
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #12 - March 21, 2012, 07:34 AM

    Not sure if the authorities care about Somali girls until it becomes their problem directly.

    And public pressure isn't going to help when the public don't know/care-and those that do are often in it for the race-baiting.

    Anyway, thanks for the info, I thought FGM was prevalent in East Africa but I didn't know it had spread to East Africans in the UK.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #13 - March 21, 2012, 08:01 AM

    Not sure if the authorities care about Somali girls until it becomes their problem directly.

     the public don't know/care-and those that do are often in it for the race-baiting.

    They don't appear to give a damn. Quite apart from their obvious failure to protect children being quite openly abused and mutilated, they don't seem to realise that FGM is perhaps the surest barrier to integration there is.

    And isn't that what we all want, integration? The loss of old identities and the forging of a new, broader collective identity.

    But, as you say, if only the race-baiters shout about it, it's best ignored.
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #14 - March 21, 2012, 08:16 AM

    Well, I'm not sure. There was a debate about this somewhere else but I've recently thought that successive governments are playing pass the bomb when it comes to integration and issues pertaining to minorities. It seems to me that they are outwardly committed to integration, but that's about it, when they are in power they do the very minimum they have to do to keep order and then leave it to someone else. No one government has ever seemed to do more than the minimum. That's just my observation though.


    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #15 - March 21, 2012, 08:24 AM

    Beyond basic (and essential) equality legislation, it's not really the government's job to ensure integration. It's for people who move somewhere to make a (sometimes considerable) effort to integrate. And they must make this effort hoping, not demanding, that they be accepted.

    (Sorry to sound pompous, but I try to lve by this creed wherever I am in the world. And I've been around a bit.)
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #16 - March 21, 2012, 08:27 AM

    Then we have different views as to the government's role in things, I'll leave it at that then. Anyway, thanks for the info on Somalis and FGM.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #17 - March 21, 2012, 08:37 AM

    Cordially agreeing to differ. I like it.

    Keep up the Syria stuff, please.
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #18 - March 21, 2012, 08:44 AM

    It doesn't seem like many people here care tbh, so I don't see the point.

    But I'll try.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #19 - March 21, 2012, 09:53 AM

    I think people probably read it without commenting on it.

    I certainly do, though I think you lost your (relative) objectivity a bit last time out. So what if Assad downloads from iTunes while Rome burns.
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #20 - March 21, 2012, 11:20 AM

    I disagree, I think it's a testament to the mindset of a leader, I don't usually care about the private lives of celebs, and I don't care about what he downloads on itunes or what sort of porn he's into, but I do care about email correspondents and what they tell us about internal workings. Such as the fact that he is given advice from Iran, has been warned by the Royal family of Qatar, his two PR advisers are recent graduates from American universities as well as his father in law. These details are useful, again, I don't care about the purchases per se.

    Anyway, I never intended to be a 'journalist' on the topic for this forum, people can do their own reading and research if they want to, I spend about 6-10 hours a week on the topic talking to family members, friends in the country and reading articles, reports, statements watching videos etc, but that's all for my benefit rather than to benefit others. If what I write isn't up to scratch and doesn't interest anyone then it's best for me not to post anything on the topic at all-I can find somewhere else to discuss Syria.

    Anyway, I think I've gone off topic now-sorry.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #21 - March 22, 2012, 12:32 AM

    You sound a bit down, old boy. Chin up.
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #22 - March 22, 2012, 07:02 AM

    Yes I was a bit when I wrote that, but anyway, I'm probably going to lay off the Syria thing until it becomes more interesting to people. Thanks.

    I hope people enjoyed the documentary anyway.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #23 - March 22, 2012, 10:40 PM

     Cry Cry Cry

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #24 - March 22, 2012, 11:15 PM

    There is a reason I don't watch these sort of documentaries, and watching this one just reminded me of them.  Cry

    Too painful a reminder of my own marriage and childhood. 

    I totally agreed with the point made, that the people who abuse women to the point that they are driven to suicide should be brought to justice.  Just because their hand didn't deliver the blow doesn't make them any less responsible for the death.  The comparison between war veteran's suicide rates and Asian women's doesn't surprise me.  The abuse I went through has left me with post traumatic stress disorder in many respects, and suicide seemed like an option.  Listening to family telling you to go back all the time places pressure when family that cares would go beat the man themselves.

    Very painful reminder not to watch these sort of documentaries again.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #25 - March 22, 2012, 11:17 PM

    I know, it's a painful issue-and the fact that it still goes untouched in 21st century Britain is horrible.

    And I'm sorry berbs, maybe if I post another link I should post disclaimers, I would have this time but I didn't realise how painful it could be for people to watch it.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #26 - April 02, 2012, 02:53 PM

    Just found this out

    Quote

    Panorama and Daily Mail misrepresent survey on 'honour' crimes
     


    The BBC’s Panorama programme yesterday focused on attitudes towards 'honour' amongst Asian and Middle Eastern communities in the UK investigating‘Britain’s Crimes of Honour’. The programme looked at some of the tragic cases where women have been threatened, imprisoned in their own homes, driven to attempt suicide and sometimes even killed for 'honour'.



    As part of the documentary, Panorama commissioned a survey by ComRes into attitudes towards honour amongst British Asians. Notwithstanding the fact that the documentary highlighted the often criminal and fatal extremes of observing 'honour' amongst some communities in the UK, the documentary failed to use the results arising from the commissioned survey in an objective manner. As Islamophobia Watch puts it,
     

    “the Panorama documentary makers set out by assuming that support for "honour" based violence is rife within British Asian communities but found that the ComRes survey provided little support for this assumption. So the poll findings were not interpreted objectively but rather hyped up to suggest that there is solid evidence of widespread support for such violence.”
     
    For example, the documentary highlighted the fact that of the 500 respondents questioned by ComRes 69% agreed that “families should live according to honour”. This sentiment was greater amongst the 16-24 age group (73%) than the 25-34 age group (64%). It also cited the statistic that only 6% of respondents thought it “right to physically punish a woman because she brings dishonor”, however that this rose to 18% when respondents were given a specific list of situations.
     
    The documentary failed to point out however that when asked, “Do you personally think that there is ever a justification for so called “honour killings”?”, across all Asian communities (apart from ‘other Asian’) at least 94% responded “no”.
     
    The documentary and survey findings were also covered in the Daily Express and the Daily Mail yesterday. Whilst the Express correctly denoted the survey as polling Asian attitudes, the Daily Mail headlined with, ‘More than two thirds of young British Muslims believe 'honour' violence is acceptable, survey reveals’. The article began with "Most young British Muslims support violence against women who 'dishonour' their families..."
     
    Whilst 70% of Muslim respondents agreed that “families should live according to the concept of honour”, so did 64% of Hindus, 79% of Sikhs and 62% of Christians, and this question did not refer to violence. 94% of Muslims disagreed that “in certain circumstances, it can be right to physically punish a female member of the family if she brings dishonor to her family or community”. 94% of Muslims also answered “no” in response to, “Do you personally think that there is ever a justification for so called “honour killings”?”
     
    The Daily Mail later altered the headline of the article having been made aware of its incompetence in interpreting the survey results accurately. Given that the Daily Mail is among the most popular news websites, such failings potentially have considerable ramifications.

    Moreover, with newspapers relying too heavily, if not exclusively, on press releases issued prior to programme broadcasts the ability to contextualise such news stories is lost. For example, the Guardian on Saturday featured a report on the growing problem of domestic violence in the UK. The Guardian cited a study which found that, “There are two domestic killings of women each week on average, accounting for about 40% of all female murders.”

    Assessing Asian attitudes towards 'honour' and 'honour-based violence' in correlation to attitudes and statistics on domestic violence in the UK provides a more holistic picture on the plight of women vulnerable to and threatened by gender based abuse and violence. It enables us to appreciate the wider context in which the ComRes study on Asian attitudes is situated. But that's hardly in the interests of the Daily Mail now is it? Moreover, it is worth noting that newspapers do not seem as concerned with the issue of domestic violence amongst the wider UK public, as illustrated in the Guardian; perhaps this is because it does not suit their agenda to foment prejudice and hatred against minority communities, especially Muslims.

    You can see the results of the ComRes survey here.
     
    The Panorama documentary is available to watch here.

     


    http://www.iengage.org.uk/component/content/article/1-news/1748-panorama-and-daily-mail-misrepresent-survey-on-honour-crimes

    Survey results

    http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/BBC_Blakeway_Honour_Crime_Feb12.pdf

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #27 - April 02, 2012, 07:53 PM

    Typical.  Roll Eyes
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #28 - April 02, 2012, 09:02 PM

    I'm disappointed, in the BBC because I always thought that they had relatively good integrity and were fairly liberal and open minded, and weren't out for Muslim bashing. I'm also disappointed in myself, for thinking that this issue was bigger than it is. I mean, every loss of life or moment of suffering is a tragedy, and every case should be dealt with very seriously, but that doesn't mean that the attitudes of the Muslim community are as bad as they were portrayed.

    Next time I'll be more careful.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Honour crimes in the UK-Panorama documentary 19/03/12
     Reply #29 - April 02, 2012, 09:08 PM


    I thought the documentary was very timely and excellent. The Daily Mail being twats doesn't diminish that.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

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