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 Topic: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians

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  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #60 - October 10, 2011, 02:31 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 08, 2011, 12:19 PM
    Jews stoned people, I just don't see why the law would change unless god changed it.

    Didn't Jesus say that he has not come to change a single letter of the law?

    And how does your claim mean that Christians can eat bacon sandwiches?


    Actually Peter was the one who had a vision of both clean and unclean animals
    falling from the sky, and had the epiphany that all was clean from the lord.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter%27s_vision_of_a_sheet_with_animals
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #61 - October 10, 2011, 02:35 PM
    TheRationalizer....

    I often wondered about the bad bits,  the woman thrown out
    to strangers and raped/killed.  Then she was diced up into 12
    pieces and sent to each tribe of israel.  Also when Lot offered
    his daughters to the pervs instead of offering the angels.  If the angels
    could blow the entire mess up, why didnt the angels deal with
    the pervs outside Lot's door, and demolish them! lol
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #62 - October 10, 2011, 02:36 PM
    A rapist's punishment is to marry his victim and to never be allowed to divorce her.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #63 - October 10, 2011, 02:43 PM
    wouldnt that be an INCENTIVE for rape, if a guy without a chance
    for the woman that he wanted, raped her, then could have her
    the rest of his life.  Screw what she wanted, eh? OMFG... He
    would have more accidents happen to him if he were my husband.
    SON OF A BITCH!  Yep, he would be the most accident proned man
    on earth lol. 
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #64 - October 10, 2011, 03:01 PM
    It's okay that doesn't count any more, Jesus died.

    So, you don't have to marry your rapist AND you get to eat bacon sandwiches for lunch at work on a Saturday.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #65 - October 12, 2011, 08:25 AM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 10, 2011, 02:25 PM
    Religious people usually don't want to talk about the silly parts of the religions.


    You have a very irrational way of twisting things, especially in light of calling yourself TheRationalizer. Please do review the conversation. I made every attempt to show that there were people pleasing to God before the Mosaic Law food restrictions. I showed from the Bible the Mosaic Law was alway intended to be temporary. I explained how Jesus fufilled the
    Law so that Christiians no longer had the restrctions of the Mosaic Law.
     What more can I say?
    How long do you want to repete myself just to have you ignore what I've said?
    So I say I'm not talking to you RIGT NOW about it because you are being illogical and you try to blame me. Be the rationalizer you say you are

    Quote from:  TheRationalizer
    To allow people are more versatile diet Jesus had to die first.


    Case in point you have taken one small aspect of a large body of Law that was the tutor leading to the Christ and that would then be done away when it's purpose
    was complete.  Then you act as
     if this one tiny aspect of the whole Law was the purpose of Jesus' death which I have already explained is not the case according to the Bible.
    How many times should I explain to some one who doesn't want to hear?
    Yes it would be rather stupid if the  single purpose of Jesus' death was to change a dietary law. I however never suggested that was the case.

    Quote from:  TheRationalizerr
    Yeah, although it says you can't work on a Saturday (so Jews don't) it is okay for Christians


    "It"? What is the "it" that says Christian can't work
     certain days?
    So what does it matter that Jews don't work on Saturday. Is it not
     their own choice what they believe?

    to be continued
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #66 - October 12, 2011, 09:26 AM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 12, 2011, 08:25 AM
    I showed from the Bible the Mosaic Law was alway intended to be temporary.


    I think you are missing the point.  You are trying to prove to me that although people could not eat all of those animals in the past, now that Jesus has come we can because the old laws were always supposed to be temporary.

    My point is that it is silly.  What is the point of telling people that they cannot eat a camel if there is no harm in doing so?  What is the point of telling people they cannot eat bacon for so long only to tell them later that they can?  A pig is so "unclean" that if you touch the carcass of a dead pig you are unclean for the rest of the day and have to wash your clothes, Jesus dies, and now you can not only touch a dead pig but you can stuff an apple in its mouth and cook it on a spit roast for dinner.

    Do you really not see the absurdity?


    Quote from: Lynna on October 12, 2011, 08:25 AM
    I explained how Jesus fufilled the Law so that Christiians no longer had the restrctions of the Mosaic Law.


    Yeah, problem is that it seems to conflict with the verse where Jesus says he has not come to alter even a single dot of the law.  I don't see why he would say that if he then went on to make 99% of it obsolete.


    Quote from: Lynna on October 12, 2011, 08:25 AM
    you act as if this one tiny aspect of the whole Law was the purpose of Jesus' death


    I was very careful when wording my reply so as not to do that.  My point is that Pigs are bad, and Jesus had to die in order to make them dinner.

    Quote from: Lynna on October 12, 2011, 08:25 AM
    Yes it would be rather stupid if the  single purpose of Jesus' death was to change a dietary law.


    No, it is rather stupid that eating camels has ANYTHING at all to do with a man being nailed to a cross and murdered.



    Quote from: Lynna on October 12, 2011, 08:25 AM
    So what does it matter that Jews don't work on Saturday. Is it not their own choice what they believe?


    Oh I see.  We can all read the bible and choose to believe it says whatever we want it to?  I suppose that does match the reality of religion that I see around me.  Such as Christians eating pigs, and Jews no longer stoning to death disobedient children.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #67 - October 12, 2011, 10:29 AM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 12, 2011, 09:26 AM


    Oh I see.  We can all read the bible and choose to believe it says whatever we want it to?  I suppose that does match the reality of religion that I see around me.  Such as Christians eating pigs, and Jews no longer stoning to death disobedient children.



    I had just about gone back to sleep.
    Any body can believe whatever they want, That doesn't make it right and it doesn't put me under any obligation to go along with them.
    You are the one that keeps saying the Jews don't work on Sarurday. All I'm saying is: So? What does that have to do with my Christian believes? Since they choose not to believe that Jesus is the Messiah they would also have to think that are still under the Mosaic Law or else stop being Jews.
    If we were discussing how well people in general follow their religions I would say for the most part not very well. You make a good point; If some one is doing part of the Law of Moses why are they not doing it all?
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #68 - October 12, 2011, 10:39 AM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 12, 2011, 10:29 AM
    You are the one that keeps saying the Jews don't work on Sarurday. All I'm saying is: So? What does that have to do with my Christian believes?


    One of the ten commandments:
    "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."

    Are you telling me that not all of the 10 commandments are valid now?

    So because this isn't about loving your neighbour, it is okay to work on a Saturday?  Would that mean that you have to give your manservant and maidservant the day off because you know it would make them happy?


    Quote from: Lynna on October 12, 2011, 10:29 AM
    If some one is doing part of the Law of Moses why are they not doing it all?


    And most importantly, how could we objectively tell which parts do or do not apply?
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #69 - October 12, 2011, 12:36 PM
    so... homosexuality is a sin in xianity. 

    HOW do you explain those who are hermaphrodites, and
    those with ambiguous genitalia?  What are they supposed
    to be?  Male? Female?  And what if they fall in love? 
    Are they gay if they choose either male or female as
    a partner?  Why would god create them that way? 

    Most xians i ask this question to, say, "oh, wow, i didnt
    know that, I dont want to think about it".  Well, these
    folks affected have to think about it 24/7.  So, what do
    they do?
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #70 - October 12, 2011, 12:38 PM
    No, homosexuality isn't a sin because it doesn't contradict "Love thy neighbour."
    Nor does sex outside of marriage.

    Don't you see?  As long as the rule doesn't contradict the instruction to love god and to love your neighbour as yourself you are allowed to do it now.

    So Lynna, are homosexuality and sex outside of marriage permitted?
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #71 - October 12, 2011, 12:49 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 12, 2011, 12:38 PM
    No, homosexuality isn't a sin because it doesn't contradict "Love thy neighbour."


    No, it certainly doesn't...  Cheesy
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #72 - October 12, 2011, 01:50 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 12, 2011, 12:38 PM
    No, homosexuality isn't a sin because it doesn't contradict "Love thy neighbour."
    Nor does sex outside of marriage.

    Don't you see?  As long as the rule doesn't contradict the instruction to love god and to love your neighbour as yourself you are allowed to do it now.

    So Lynna, are homosexuality and sex outside of marriage permitted?


    errrr... adultery, fornication, and lasciviousness are ALL sins.  So as long as they
    dont have sex, its okay LOL.

    EDIT:  and remember "do not covet thy neighbor's wife"  but I guess
    the husband is okay LMAOOOOOOOO
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #73 - October 12, 2011, 02:47 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 05, 2011, 02:20 PM
    Yes, I am a Christian, have been the whole two years I've been posting here. Did it just now start to worry you Muddy? Worried about having some one around who thinks different then you?

    Nope! Not worried at all.. Just that I find verbal diarrhea that doesn't make any sense at all a bit turn off!
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #74 - October 12, 2011, 02:50 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 05, 2011, 02:20 PM
    May I ask: What are you doing here?

    Yes, you can! You have full rights to ask any questions any time. Just that from the question itself, it looks like I am talking to someone whose brain is way too under-developed, and I don't know if my answer make sense to you at all.
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #75 - October 12, 2011, 02:58 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 12, 2011, 12:38 PM
    No, homosexuality isn't a sin because it doesn't contradict "Love thy neighbour."
    Nor does sex outside of marriage.

    Don't you see?  As long as the rule doesn't contradict the instruction to love god and to love your neighbour as yourself you are allowed to do it now.

    So Lynna, are homosexuality and sex outside of marriage permitted?


    Homosexuality and sex outside of marriage are not allowed because they do contradict love God with your whole heart, soul and mind. 
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #76 - October 12, 2011, 03:21 PM
    Quote from: mighty_cats on October 12, 2011, 03:01 PM
    So sex is synonymous with love? You can't have the latter without the former?


    Say what?
    I'm not sure how your reply has anything to do with what I said.
    Please explain why you think the words love and sex would be synonymous. Also explain how it would apply to what I said.
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #77 - October 12, 2011, 04:02 PM
    Quote from: muddy on October 12, 2011, 02:50 PM
    Yes, you can! You have full rights to ask any questions any time. Just that from the question itself, it looks like I am talking to someone whose brain is way too under-developed, and I don't know if my answer make sense to you at all.


    It's okay Muddy you can feel however you want that is your choice. Answer or not answer any question you want that also is your choice. Like I've said I spend alot of time here reading, I could know why you are here rather quickly just by pulling up a list of your posts and reading. I've never read your's or your story, if you have one posted, because I'm usually looking for certain kinds of imformation and have just never thought of you as a good source. I've never been in a conversation with you I suppose for just because it never happened that way. Perhaps it could have been because of how quickly you attacked  my person with a claim you have no logical or informational way to back up . It's dificult it have conversations under those conditions. 
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #78 - October 12, 2011, 04:58 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 12, 2011, 03:21 PM
    Say what?
    I'm not sure how your reply has anything to do with what I said.
    Please explain why you think the words love and sex would be synonymous. Also explain how it would apply to what I said.


    Your words:
    'Homosexuality and sex outside of marriage are not allowed because they do contradict love God with your whole heart, soul and mind. '

    So surely loving someone is not allowed because it contradicts loving God with your whole heart and soul as well, right?
    I don't see how sex outside of marriage could be a contradiction but love (which is usually the cause of sex) isn't.

    Love+sex = wrong
    no love + sex = wrong
    Love + no sex = ok?
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #79 - October 12, 2011, 05:18 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 12, 2011, 02:58 PM
    Homosexuality and sex outside of marriage are not allowed because they do contradict love God with your whole heart, soul and mind. 


    How does a man loving a man and having sex with him contradict "Love God with your whole heart, soul, and mind" whereas a man loving a woman and having sex with her does not?
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #80 - October 12, 2011, 05:41 PM
    Quote from: mighty_cats on October 12, 2011, 04:58 PM
    Your words:
    'Homosexuality and sex outside of marriage are not allowed because they do contradict love God with your whole heart, soul and mind. '

    So surely loving someone is not allowed because it contradicts loving God with your whole heart and soul as well, right?
    I don't see how sex outside of marriage could be a contradiction but love (which is usually the cause of sex) isn't.

    Love+sex = wrong
    no love + sex = wrong
    Love + no sex = ok?


    If you love some one, in this case God, you wouldn't want to do something that made you displeasing or even revolting to that person.
    That seems, to me, to be a very basic idea involved in relationships.
    Most relationships between thinking being go so far beyond your simple equations it seems to me most strange that you would try to make such a statement.
    What do you think?
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #81 - October 12, 2011, 05:50 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 12, 2011, 05:41 PM
    If you love some one, in this case God, you wouldn't want to do something that made you displeasing or even revolting to that person.


    I'm pretty sure that Jesus made a point on this subject that the thoughts of lust for a person is equal to actually performing it; So am I not essentially 'maxing out' (so to speak) by this action alone?
    Afterall if I'm already (in the eyes of 'the lord') committing adultery/intercourse, what difference does the act itself change?
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #82 - October 12, 2011, 06:37 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on October 12, 2011, 05:59 PM
    I think that the act of homosexuality being revolting was in the old law system, and that Jesus made it all better.  But what about sex outside of marriage? God didn't say that was revolting did he?


    You think?
    Have you ever read the Bible?
    Are you aware of what things happened during what time periods?
    You like to act as if you know everything.
    Well, what did God say and when did he say it?
    Your's are not the only valid points in the world no matter how highly you think of yourself.
    Earlier is this conversation, time and again, I used the same scriptures you did, except I put them incontext to show that Jesus, not me, was saying that he did not change, void, or make invalid the Law but he fulfilled it. Each time you ignore this fact.

    Please tell me why I would want to have a conversation with some one so illogical?
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #83 - October 12, 2011, 06:51 PM
    I already said. Why you are avoiding my answer.
    Exactly what part of it were you unable to understand?
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #84 - October 12, 2011, 09:21 PM
    Perhaps you could quote it for me? Because looking through your responses I am unable to find your explanation as to why pre-marital sex is wrong (between a man and a woman.)
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #85 - October 13, 2011, 05:37 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 12, 2011, 04:02 PM
    It's okay Muddy you can feel however you want that is your choice. Answer or not answer any question you want that also is your choice. Like I've said I spend alot of time here reading, I could know why you are here rather quickly just by pulling up a list of your posts and reading. I've never read your's or your story, if you have one posted, because I'm usually looking for certain kinds of imformation and have just never thought of you as a good source. I've never been in a conversation with you I suppose for just because it never happened that way. Perhaps it could have been because of how quickly you attacked  my person with a claim you have no logical or informational way to back up . It's dificult it have conversations under those conditions. 


    Or, you can just read under my name, it says "Ex-muslim".
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #86 - October 14, 2011, 01:11 PM
    Quote from: muddy on October 13, 2011, 05:37 PM
    Or, you can just read under my name, it says "Ex-muslim".


    Not every one who is an Ex-muslim does the same thing here. Not ever one who was associated with Islam are the "same degree of Ex-muslim". Some actually were believer, while others had the religion inflicted on them by family and community. There are even Ex-muslims who don't come here. So the fact your a name says Ex-muslim under it does not totally explain what you are doing here. Ex-muslim would really only be the opening words.
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #87 - October 14, 2011, 01:31 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 12, 2011, 02:58 PM
    Homosexuality and sex outside of marriage are not allowed because they do contradict love God with your whole heart, soul and mind. 


    scripture reference, please.
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #88 - October 14, 2011, 01:53 PM
    Quote from: Jinn and Tonic on October 14, 2011, 01:31 PM
    scripture reference, please.


    I was just starting on my list. So I'll get back to you with it late today hopefully. Or tomorrow, I know I'll have time then.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: Discussion about topic: Awkward questions to ask Christians
     Reply #89 - October 14, 2011, 02:18 PM
    Thanks, Lynna... also, I would like your thoughts on the post I asked
    about hermaphrodites and those with ambiguous genitalia.  What do
    they do? are they gay or not?  Are they free to marry either male or
    female in the church?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vNzBW0ZNzA

    Quote
    We have quoted some statistics from Bancroft in previous sections, and we have gleaned some more from the Intersex Society of North America, estimates provided by Dr. Fausto-Sterling.(1)

    True Hermaphrodites, 
    XX/XY 1 in 70,000 F
    (Characterised as having either fused ovo-testes or ovary plus testis)
    XX/XX, XY/XY not known 
    Genetic Errors 
    Other mosaicisms and translocations,
    including XX males, XY females etc. 1 in 500 F
    46X0 Turner's Syndrome 1 in 5000 B, F
    47XXX 1 in 1000 F
    47XXY Klinefelter's Syndrome 1 in 700 B
     1 in 2000 F
    47XYY 1 in 700 B
    Genetic Errors of Metabolism
    Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome not known 
    Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia 1 in 20,000 F
    5 alpha Reductase Deficiency not known, but very rare
    Other Conditions
    Hypospadias 1 in 300 F
    Microphallus 1 in 5000 F
    Agenesis in females not known 
    Hypertrophied clitoris not known 
    SOURCES: B - Bancroft, F - Fausto Sterling
     
    Transexualism 1 in 5000 potential
    SOURCE: Landen, M., Lundstom, B., (1995) Incidence and sexratio of transsexualism Proceedings of Harry Benjamin Gender Dysphoria Association Conference, Amsterdam.




    http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency
    Quote
    Below we provide a summary of statistics drawn from an article by Brown University researcher Anne Fausto-Sterling.2 The basis for that article was an extensive review of the medical literature from 1955 to 1998 aimed at producing numeric estimates for the frequency of sex variations. Note that the frequency of some of these conditions, such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia, differs for different populations. These statistics are approximations.

    Not XX and not XY one in 1,666 births
    Klinefelter (XXY) one in 1,000 births
    Androgen insensitivity syndrome one in 13,000 births
    Partial androgen insensitivity syndrome one in 130,000 births
    Classical congenital adrenal hyperplasia one in 13,000 births
    Late onset adrenal hyperplasia one in 66 individuals
    Vaginal agenesis one in 6,000 births
    Ovotestes one in 83,000 births
    Idiopathic (no discernable medical cause) one in 110,000 births
    Iatrogenic (caused by medical treatment, for instance progestin administered to pregnant mother) no estimate
    5 alpha reductase deficiency no estimate
    Mixed gonadal dysgenesis no estimate
    Complete gonadal dysgenesis one in 150,000 births
    Hypospadias (urethral opening in perineum or along penile shaft) one in 2,000 births
    Hypospadias (urethral opening between corona and tip of glans penis) one in 770 births
     
    Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female one in 100 births

    Total number of people receiving surgery to “normalize” genital appearance one or two in 1,000 births

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
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