Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland

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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #30 - April 04, 2012, 12:49 PM

Quote from: serpentofeden on April 04, 2012, 02:39 AM
@sturmgewehr

owned ? calm and collected? eh , did you watch the whole vid?

when ehsan jami asked him questions, he looked baffled and confused, before replying "i dont know, im sorry i cant answer that question'

yes I watched the whole vid, tell me which part of the debate did those guys have a good argument that left the Salafi speechless?
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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #31 - April 04, 2012, 01:07 PM

Quote from: sturmgewehr on April 03, 2012, 11:56 PM
I mean if u want to get hanged or get ur hand cut off for stealing then who am I to tell u not to do so ??

A man of conscience and of sound mind. That's who.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #32 - April 04, 2012, 04:55 PM

Quote from: sturmgewehr on April 03, 2012, 11:56 PM
@ billy:

Why are you saying that I think he was very honest and made very good points about what he was saying.
Quote from: sturmgewehr on April 03, 2012, 11:56 PM
@ billy:

Why are you saying that I think he was very honest and made very good points about what he was saying.

I would agree that treason and freedom of consciousness is not the same and you can't draw a parallel but still if someone consciously accepted those kinds of rules and he knew that one day if he had to apostate he will have to face a death punishment then what is it all about, I think that person signed his own death warrant, just like in a normal society where you are given a death punishment for treason, no one asked u if u agree with that law or if u like it, they will just put u in front of the firing squad and execute you, it is the same with apostasy.

He kept repeating that these laws don't apply to people who are not muslims only to people who want to accept this way of life and that is pretty valid, I mean if u want to get hanged or get ur hand cut off for stealing then who am I to tell u not to do so ??

I would agree that treason and freedom of consciousness is not the same and you can't draw a parallel but still if someone consciously accepted those kinds of rules and he knew that one day if he had to apostate he will have to face a death punishment then what is it all about, I think that person signed his own death warrant, just like in a normal society where you are given a death punishment for treason, no one asked u if u agree with that law or if u like it, they will just put u in front of the firing squad and execute you, it is the same with apostasy.

He kept repeating that these laws don't apply to people who are not muslims only to people who want to accept this way of life and that is pretty valid, I mean if u want to get hanged or get ur hand cut off for stealing then who am I to tell u not to do so ??

he did some slight misdirection with the burka question. When asked if he supported forcing the burka he said no, but when asked about Saudi Arabia enforcing the burka he said they had a right to impose laws on their population like Britain does with driving on the left side of the road. But when asked if he opposed the burka ban he said he was, why? It's obviously not because of his deeply held believe that states have the right to impose laws or else he wouldn't have a problem with it.

Also ethically forcing everyone to drive on one side of the road is not the same as imposing the burka.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #33 - April 04, 2012, 05:02 PM

@sturmgewehr i didn't say any of the 2 guys sitting on the front table left him speechless, in fact i think the other moderate morrocan muzzie gave a very poor account of himself.

Ehsan Jami left him flustered and lost for words. He was in the audience and asked haddad a few questions right near the end of the vid, with 5-10 mins left. He was wearing a tie and suit jacket if i remember correctly.

jami he made this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA-f1OtbsMA
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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #34 - April 04, 2012, 05:47 PM

Quote from: deusvult on April 04, 2012, 04:55 PM
Also ethically forcing everyone to drive on one side of the road is not the same as imposing the burka.

Good insight bro.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #35 - April 04, 2012, 05:49 PM

Quote from: serpentofeden on April 04, 2012, 05:02 PM
jami he made this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA-f1OtbsMA

Whoa....

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #36 - April 04, 2012, 05:56 PM

@ deusvult:

When he was asked if he opposed the Burqa ban he obviously would not support the Burqa ban since it violates the rights of the woman who want to wear it, it is simple and clear, he also made it clear that he doesn't agree with the Saudis and Iranians in the beginning of the debate.

He also made a good parallel where they asked him why Churches are banned in Arabia, he explained that through the Vatican instance.

@ serpentofeden:

I think what you talking about happened after minute 55:00, the Salafi answered that question very well, the Salafi never said anything bad about Jews in general, he was talking about Jews who killed innocent Palestinians in Gaza Strip.

The guy asking the question got his answer, he asked something about free speech, the Salafi elaborated it very well, the guy asking the question was putting words in his mouth, the Salafi didn't say bad things about JEWS, he said bad things about Killer Jews and that is pretty valid.

the guy asked him this more precisely:

Why is it that you just stated here and you just mentioned the most horrifying things but u just stated, yeah if they insult my prophet and religion I will walk away I don't wanna have any debate with people that insult me, why is it that I can't say Islam is retarded??

the Salafi answered it that he doesn't like people insulting his religion, he didn't say YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO INSULT MY RELIGION, he never said that, he just said that IF YOU INSULT MY RELIGION I don't wanna debate you and can't take you seriously and he is right about that and I think people should respect that, why say something which u clearly know to be offensive to your opponent You don't have to think highly of Islam, you don't have to respect Islam but when debating in front of him he is asking u to be decent and not insult his religion, his example with Insulting your mom was valid, why should I debate you if u sit in a table with me and start talking trash about my mother of course I can't stop you from talking trash but I won't debate you, I will stand up and leave.
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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #37 - April 04, 2012, 06:05 PM

Quote
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO INSULT MY RELIGION, he never said that, he just said that IF YOU INSULT MY RELIGION I don't wanna debate you and can't take you seriously and he is right about that and I think people should respect that, why say something which u clearly know to be offensive to your opponent You don't have to think highly of Islam, you don't have to respect Islam but when debating in front of him he is asking u to be decent and not insult his religion, his example with Insulting your mom was valid, why should I debate you if u sit in a table with me and start talking trash about my mother of course I can't stop you from talking trash but I won't debate you, I will stand up and leave.

I'm sure you're not trolling so I'll just toss these out there.

(1) Insulting religion is a very elastic concept to Salafis

(2) Salafis reserve for themselves the right to insult, degrade, demonise and hate any individual, belief system, religion or group of people at will, and then squeal like pathetic little cry babies if anything is said that hurts their sentiments

Typical passive aggressive special pleading snake oil crap.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #38 - April 04, 2012, 06:32 PM

@ billy:

No I am not trolling, I have no reason to do so, I like this forum and I am not here to troll the forum.

1.) I can relate to that, I don't know what they consider an insult, maybe they would get insulted by some frivolous stuff but then who doesn't sometimes, maybe they are too susceptible but we all are like that, I think there is a considerable difference between getting insulted and imposing or limiting free speech.

2.) That could be the case, the passive aggressive special pleading, my point was that he never stated that he is trying to impose the Burqa to woman who don't want to wear it.

Maybe they have some kind of hidden agenda but it would not be fair to claim that without having any evidence to prove it.
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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #39 - April 04, 2012, 06:36 PM

Quote
Maybe they have some kind of hidden agenda but it would not be fair to claim that without having any evidence to prove it.

Its not hidden its in plain sight only those who are entranced by their sophistry can't see it.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #40 - April 04, 2012, 06:50 PM

Quote from: sturmgewehr on April 04, 2012, 05:56 PM
@ deusvult:

When he was asked if he opposed the Burqa ban he obviously would not support the Burqa ban since it violates the rights of the woman who want to wear it, it is simple and clear, he also made it clear that he doesn't agree with the Saudis and Iranians in the beginning of the debate.

He also made a good parallel where they asked him why Churches are banned in Arabia,

this is first level dawahgandism padawan. He said at the beginning he doesn't support or represent Iran or Saudi Arabia, which is truthful and obvious. But when asked specifically about forced veiling he reverted to countries can enforce their own laws which he himself doesn't believe. If a country wants to ban the burka then magically it's against their rights, but if a woman doesn't want to veil in Saudi Arabia and is punished who are we to question their rules? He slips between using rights in Western countries and then stripping those rights away in Saudi Arabia.

The Saudi Peninsula = The Vatican is another one of those level 1 dawahgandisms that sounds good on the surface but doesn't make sense when you think about it. First is the size difference, the Vatican is 0.172 square miles while Saudi Arabia is 830,000 square miles. The population of Vatican City is 826 with approximately 700 clergy and 150 guards with the 2000 some odd lay workers living outside Vatican City because their isn't enough room in the Vatican to house them. Saudi Arabia has 27 million with populations of Christians, Hindus, and others living there. So it's not a strait comparison of equals. It's an insignificant strip of land with almost no native inhabitants being compared to a large península that is undoubtedly harming thousands of non Muslims that are actually living there.

Second there is a sense of a tu quoque argument that just says "Well you do it too! " instead of actually addressing the issue. You see the same thing with the blasphemy laws and holocaust denial. Because Germany has a law that makes holocaust denial illegal then it's ok to have blasphemy laws without thinking it's probably better to have neither..

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #41 - April 04, 2012, 08:05 PM

and that goes in the 'greatest hits - posts you may have missed thread'

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #42 - April 04, 2012, 08:11 PM

Before churches are built in Saudi shouldn't non-muslims be given citizenship Someone should have sent Hillary Clinton a letter asking her to persuade her allies.
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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #43 - April 04, 2012, 08:48 PM

For practical purposes yes they should. A lot more people are being harmed by being second class non citizens than are being harmed by not being able to worship. It's really a side show in the bigger picture. And if both really did allow mosques and churches it would probably be exploited more by evangelicals and fundamentals in some kind of triumphantism, than to actually serve the needs of the people actually there. For that specific arguement its used in a religious freedoms context though. " Churches can't be built in SA like mosques can't be built in the Vatican, not Muslims can't be citizens of the Vatican like non Muslims can't be in citizens in SA. "

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
My political philosophy below
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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #44 - April 05, 2012, 01:35 AM

the Salafi never said anything bad about Jews in general

@sturmgewehr

he's pulling out the lame mistranlation card. google 'haitham al haddad jews pigs' and do some research then come back and talk to me

and it isn't jews killing palestinians, but israeli's, israel is no where near being a 100% jewish population and u don't have to be a jew to be IDF

as for pulling out the insult card, erm what does the quran say about non believers, isn't that insulting/

as for the mum comparison, does he think he's in primary school? that's a silly analogy, grown men dont insult each others mothers.
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Re: Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #45 - April 05, 2012, 05:03 AM

Women asking to be whipped?? He's been watching too much porn.

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Radical extremist Haitham Al-Haddad debate in holland
Reply #46 - December 31, 2012, 11:14 PM

he's back at it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aQrx9L79yM
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