What do people here think of Robert Spencer?

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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #30 - April 14, 2012, 10:51 AM

Quote from: ateapotist on April 14, 2012, 01:42 AM
I agree with the responses above regarding Spencer and Wilders. Just wish to add that I, for one, left Islam primarily because it was not *true* and now intellectual honesty matters to me a lot. Spencer is clearly biased against Islam and takes verses/hadiths out of context (just like the islamist fanatics do!) and ignores other verses/hadiths to suit his agenda. I am not saying Islam is a religion of peace. I just think we have to be honest about what we think the teachings of Islam are.

Does he take things out of context though? That suggests an eternal and peaceful and fixed essence of Islam that is wrongfully being distorted by him and literalist Islam / Islamism.

His wrongness lies elsewhere I think.

It isn't difficult to aggregate all that is wrong with Islam in a modern context, to say nothing of Islamism and its manifestations. All your work is done for you by others, because they are so nakedly self-exposing. It really is like taking candy from a baby.

Even taking apart Islam itself as a belief system isn't difficult when you get past the fear, hysteria and blasphemy taboos that surround doing so.

My issue with Spencer isn't that he aggregates such examples, its the absurdity of his positioning and his blindness when it comes to his associations, most notably for me in his support for the EDL, a ridiculous hooligan firm that had extremist blood coursing through its veins since its inception. To say nothing of the simple binary ways that he tends to reduce issues in many ways.

I remember once reading a piece about a Muslim who had been convicted of a hit and run killing being contextualised as part of Jihad on his site - this is an absurdity, and is self-discrediting.

Islam(ism) is self-incriminating. Its something that can be repudiated on a number of levels, and its easy to do so without flirting with an identity-politics that replicates the kinds of collective communal logic that Ummah identity-politics (and in many ways Islam itself) has at its core.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #31 - April 14, 2012, 11:57 AM

Quote from: billy on April 14, 2012, 10:51 AM
Does he take things out of context though? That suggests an eternal and peaceful and fixed essence of Islam that is wrongfully being distorted by him and literalist Islam / Islamism.

His wrongness lies elsewhere I think.

I don't believe there is an eternal and peaceful and fixed essence of Islam, since I don't believe there is a fixed Islam. It's a false religion anyway. Mo was making it up as he went along. Sometimes he said peaceful things and something violent things. So to suggest that Mo was pure evil and ignore all the nice things he said seems dishonest to me. Likewise it is dishonest for the moderates to say the true Islam is peaceful and beautiful.

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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #32 - April 14, 2012, 12:10 PM

My take is that Islam is a constructed narrative and Mo is a construct too. The thing that makes it different from examining and scrutinising other constructed narratives is the extraordinary protections they have from scrutiny and examination by adherents on a number of levels - including the whole blasphemy taboos, intimidation and so on. The elephant in the room is that when something is protected in this way, there is an urgency to debunk it. The saying 'follow the money' can be adapted in a way to 'follow the blasphemy taboos'

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #33 - April 14, 2012, 09:56 PM

Billy put it well here. Spencer and Wilders aren't completely wrong about everything. After all, nobody is perfect. However, methinks they are wrong about enough things to render them not particularly admirable.

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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #34 - April 24, 2012, 01:18 PM

neutral..
was just reading an article by him..
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/04/20/islamic-apartheid-conference-under-attack/
was pretty good...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV9vdUjuWxc
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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #35 - April 24, 2012, 01:26 PM

Quote from: ateapotist on April 14, 2012, 11:57 AM
I don't believe there is an eternal and peaceful and fixed essence of Islam, since I don't believe there is a fixed Islam. It's a false religion anyway. Mo was making it up as he went along. Sometimes he said peaceful things and something violent things. So to suggest that Mo was pure evil and ignore all the nice things he said seems dishonest to me. Likewise it is dishonest for the moderates to say the true Islam is peaceful and beautiful.

And I have buttery butter.

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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #36 - April 26, 2012, 02:50 PM

I quite like this video of his:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDUp0pqJmvQ

I haven't actually read the book he is talking about, but I think he makes some valid points in the video, especially his conclusion.

But I am very interested that a number of ex-Muslims on this forum have said things like "Robert Spencer actually delayed me giving up Islam". If that is true then obviously the things he says are definately counter-productive, if so then what is it about the things he says that are so counter-productive?
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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #37 - April 26, 2012, 08:27 PM

Maybe it's not the content itself, but his way of demonising Muslims en masse and aligning with (and having overtones of) politically right wing bigots and crazies?

It would put a lot of people off to feel under attack.

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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #38 - April 26, 2012, 08:52 PM

Quote from: nessrriinn on April 24, 2012, 01:18 PM
neutral..
was just reading an article by him..
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/04/20/islamic-apartheid-conference-under-attack/
was pretty good...

Quote from: Tonyt on April 26, 2012, 02:50 PM
I quite like this video of his:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDUp0pqJmvQ

I haven't actually read the book he is talking about, but I think he makes some valid points in the video, especially his conclusion.

But I am very interested that a number of ex-Muslims on this forum have said things like "Robert Spencer actually delayed me giving up Islam". If that is true then obviously the things he says are definately counter-productive, if so then what is it about the things he says that are so counter-productive?

Yeah, man, nothing wrong with supporting denialism of mass executions of Bosniak Muslims, nor aligning himself with the far-right demonizing all Muslims and immigrants, nor accusing ex-Muslims like Maryam Namazie and Hassan Radwan of being stealth jihadists because they refuse to toe his line-- as long as he makes some accurate criticisms of Islam, all is forgiven-- nothing to see here, move along.

fuck you
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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #39 - May 01, 2012, 09:17 AM

Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on April 26, 2012, 08:52 PM
.......nor accusing ex-Muslims like Maryam Namazie and Hassan Radwan of being stealth jihadists because they refuse to toe his line-- as long as he makes some accurate criticisms of Islam, all is forgiven-- nothing to see here, move along.

could you give me a link on that Colonel Q-Daffi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VMBBP71yzE

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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #40 - May 01, 2012, 11:16 AM

He might be referring to this

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/08/maryam-namazie-antisemitic-supporter-of-jihad-against-israel-claims-to-be-anti-jihad-lies-about-spen.html

(And the comment saga that followed)

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What apple stores are like.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #41 - May 01, 2012, 11:33 AM

Jihad Watch reads like any other conspiracy website.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #42 - May 01, 2012, 01:24 PM

Its his accusation of Maryam Namazie and Hassan as stealth jihadist that i find it laughable

Also i hardly take christian's criticism of Islam seriously seeing that its more like a pot calling kettle black and the notion he gives that Israeli jews are more of a saint than muslims.

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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #43 - May 01, 2012, 11:46 PM

Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on April 24, 2012, 01:26 PM
And I have buttery butter.

And I have watery water. I love this language.

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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #44 - May 02, 2012, 10:55 AM

Quote from: Sprout on May 01, 2012, 11:16 AM
He might be referring to this

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/08/maryam-namazie-antisemitic-supporter-of-jihad-against-israel-claims-to-be-anti-jihad-lies-about-spen.html

(And the comment saga that followed)

thanks you Sprout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHBRJsJXV-A

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I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #45 - May 02, 2012, 11:04 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi1Q4Vvs9pM

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Re: What do people here think of Robert Spencer?
Reply #46 - May 22, 2012, 05:47 PM

He seems like a self serving opportunist to me. "Is Allah a moon god?" "Did Muhammed exist?". Any well versed Muslim could destroy his ridiculous arguments. I think he's doing more harm than good.
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