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 Topic: Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...

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  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #30 - January 20, 2013, 07:20 PM
    Quote from: moi on January 20, 2013, 01:21 PM
    Anyone flown El Al here?

    I haven't but they're always brought up whenever profiling is being discussed. Do they openly profile Arabs/Muslims? I heard they have an air marshal on every flight too.
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #31 - January 20, 2013, 07:28 PM
    Not only does profiling leave a bad taste in decent people's mouths, it is ineffective. How about militant converts (who are plentiful btw) with "non-Muslim" names? The only way profiling would work is if everyone had to have their religion explicitly written on their passport, and we all know where that kind of shit leads to… 

    Isn't everybody subjected to rigorous security checks before boarding a plane anyway? It seems to me that targeting specific people is excessive and unnecessary and worst of all it could actually lead to a bona fide terrorist slipping through the cracks because they didn't "look Muslim". If everybody is searched and cleared, what's the point of profiling? 
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #32 - January 20, 2013, 07:40 PM
    Your post reminds me of this video  Cheesy

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF-H5XLYWEk&feature=youtube_gdata_player
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #33 - January 20, 2013, 07:58 PM
    ^LOL. I used to love The Chasers' War on Everything! Where did they disappear to? See what I mean about profiling being ridiculous. Note to terrorists: next time you want to blow something up, dress like a caricature of an American tourist and the authorities will completely overlook you. 
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #34 - January 20, 2013, 10:10 PM
    Not surprising, I have always found him to be very right wing
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #35 - January 21, 2013, 04:33 AM
    He's not really advocating racial profiling or one based on nationality.

    I mean if a muslim pakistani or muslim arab guy came to the airport looking like this he obviously isn't likely to be a jihadist.



    And right wing extremist groups do carry out terrorist attacks but not as frequent as Islamic terrorism. So it's not an unreasonable thing to say that someone who looks like a practicing muslim by his dress, behavior should be profiled. Besides a huge proportion of practicing muslims are not moderates and they often hold extreme views even if they haven't committed a crime themselves.  

    And once again he said that all people should be checked throughout it's just that fundamentalist muslims are more likely to be terrorists than any other religious group and it makes sense to pay a bit more attention to them at the airport.

    I agree with Sam Harris that people are being waay too politically correct than necessary.  


    Note that I mentioned that fundie muslims shoould be profiled where as the sharukh khan type muslims should be checked as well but there not as likely to be terrorists.
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #36 - January 21, 2013, 01:45 PM
    It's not even a matter of political correctness for me. Security/safety trumps feelings all the time even though the collective punishment implied in profiling is a bit hard for me swallow. I'm against it mainly because it would be ineffective. How would've anyone at the airport known that the 9/11 hijackers were fundies and not just regular Muslims? They were dressed in "Western clothes" and it's even been said that they were out visiting strip clubs and whatnot the day before the attack so even a quick background search mightn't have even been useful in determining whether they were fundamentalists or not. If everyone is being searched rigorously anyway why do certain people need to be targeted? Unless, the idea behind profiling is to *only* screen "Muslim-looking people" and let everyone else get by without hassle. 
    For ex-Muslims who support profiling, wouldn't you be profiled against? Someone like me who is wearing a headscarf in her passport photo, who has a very Muslim-y surname and who is in the closet would be subjected to whatever discriminatory enhanced screening any Muslim would. 
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #37 - January 21, 2013, 02:05 PM
    It annoys me a lot when intelligent people say and support stupid things as Sam Harris did.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #38 - January 21, 2013, 02:19 PM
    Being intelligent and being correct are two very different things. One does not automatically imply the other.
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #39 - January 21, 2013, 02:21 PM
    Yeah you're right of course.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #40 - August 26, 2014, 07:24 AM
    I don't care how people idolize this guy, he is the commander in chief of dickheads.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #41 - August 26, 2014, 08:17 AM
    I have a lot of respect for the guy. As long as he stirs people's minds and makes them think about the different issues and people's perspectives on them, I'd consider that good enough, regardless of the correctness of his views. In my opinion, he always has an interesting way of putting things.
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #42 - August 26, 2014, 08:39 AM
    Would agree with the idea that he is very polarizing, but at the same time thought provoking in the way he presents his views.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #43 - August 26, 2014, 01:33 PM
    It seems to me that alot of what is universal values are getting reassessed because of the things coming out from the Islamic world. Islam should become in line with human rights, but at the same time those same values are being re calibrated. Religious profiling, limits on freedom of expression, breaches of privacy laws, torture etc, are being suggested or have already been applied. Here's an example on new limits on freedom of expression that wasn't there.
    http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2009/1205/p09s01-coop.html

    So where will this end? Is there a limit to where all this is going? How will we be able to undermine islamism and the same time changing the parameters for universal values.
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #44 - August 29, 2014, 07:39 PM
    Quote from: Toona on August 26, 2014, 08:17 AM
    I have a lot of respect for the guy. As long as he stirs people's minds and makes them think about the different issues and people's perspectives on them, I'd consider that good enough, regardless of the correctness of his views. In my opinion, he always has an interesting way of putting things.


    I agree. Whenever TSA or law enforcement profile, detain, accusingly interrogate, and thoroughly search me and my property, either at an airport security checkpoint or at an immigration/customs checkpoint or a routine traffic stop, I can't help but be appreciative and respectful of a rich white male like Harris who will never have to deal with the consequences of profiling "stirring people's minds"
    fuck you
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #45 - August 29, 2014, 07:46 PM
    Welcome back.
    Which side are you on?
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #46 - August 29, 2014, 07:57 PM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on August 29, 2014, 07:39 PM
    I agree. Whenever TSA or law enforcement profile, detain, accusingly interrogate, and thoroughly search me and my property, either at an airport security checkpoint or at an immigration/customs checkpoint or a routine traffic stop, I can't help but be appreciative and respectful of a rich white male like Harris who will never have to deal with the consequences of profiling "stirring people's minds"


    Hey Colonel - Long time no see!
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #47 - August 29, 2014, 08:16 PM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on August 29, 2014, 07:39 PM
    I agree. Whenever TSA or law enforcement profile, detain, accusingly interrogate, and thoroughly search me and my property, either at an airport security checkpoint or at an immigration/customs checkpoint or a routine traffic stop, I can't help but be appreciative and respectful of a rich white male like Harris who will never have to deal with the consequences of profiling "stirring people's minds"


    But the terrorists Q. We've got to stop them!
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #48 - August 29, 2014, 11:47 PM
    Quote from: Al-Alethia on January 20, 2013, 07:20 PM
    I haven't but they're always brought up whenever profiling is being discussed. Do they openly profile Arabs/Muslims? I heard they have an air marshal on every flight too.

    Any non-jew, I've seen them harass young Italian girl on a pilgrim trip.
    Your chances of profiling go down if you're a family, but singles? They're screwed.
    People should educate themselves about 9/11, it's getting ridiculous, of all the nations of the world, the American, that was founded on values of liberty, privacy, and individual rights, is getting sucked into this Orwellian atmosphere.
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #49 - August 30, 2014, 11:09 PM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on August 29, 2014, 07:39 PM
    I agree. Whenever TSA or law enforcement profile, detain, accusingly interrogate, and thoroughly search me and my property, either at an airport security checkpoint or at an immigration/customs checkpoint or a routine traffic stop, I can't help but be appreciative and respectful of a rich white male like Harris who will never have to deal with the consequences of profiling "stirring people's minds"


    Can I kiss your ring for this? grin12
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #50 - September 02, 2014, 09:25 AM
    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on January 21, 2013, 04:33 AM
    So it's not an unreasonable thing to say that someone who looks like a practicing muslim by his dress, behavior should be profiled. Besides a huge proportion of practicing muslims are not moderates and they often hold extreme views even if they haven't committed a crime themselves.  
    And once again he said that all people should be checked throughout it's just that fundamentalist muslims are more likely to be terrorists than any other religious group and it makes sense to pay a bit more attention to them at the airport.
    Note that I mentioned that fundie muslims shoould be profiled where as the sharukh khan type muslims should be checked as well but there not as likely to be terrorists.

    Yes but as A-A points out some of the 9/11 terrorists were wearing western clothes, how do you differenciate between fundies and non fundies. Going on the basis that nearly a quatere of the worlds population is muslim in some shape or form. Okay say we rule out young children and the elderly, that still probably leaves a couple of billion muslim people, how do they profile from there?

  • Sam Harris... In defense of Profiling...
     Reply #51 - September 02, 2014, 09:35 AM
    I think Maajid Nawaz argues against profiling quite well. He makes the piont that there are so many types of muslims around the world, of various shades, including converts who may not be travelling under arabic names that it's really not practical to profile.
    What I disagree with him on is his insistance against not revoking passports to Britains travelling to Syria to fight, to be fair I haven't even read his argument against it but no words anyone could say are likely to change my views on this.

    He describes this as a 'Government knee jerk reaction' and his 'Quilliam' organisation states that we shouldn't leave anyone stateless. In situations dealing with war zones shouldn't governments be allowed to place ban on travel (except in cases humanitarian aid reasons) or travel restrictions and threats of passport removal, to make things at least a little more difficult for would be Jihadis?
    I'm all for this kind of reaction as the way I view it, if you go off and join IS you've basically declared war on humanity and in doing such forfeit your own human rights.
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