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 Topic: Anti-Natalism

 (Read 10146 times)
  • Previous page 1 23 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #30 - May 17, 2012, 11:18 PM
    Actually, I'm not really going to be roped into defending the whole anti-natalist argument, because I don't necessarily believe in their methods. But certainly the overall message that much, much, much more care needs to be taken in order to assure responsible birthing of children on this planet is one that I agree with.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #31 - May 17, 2012, 11:19 PM
    Quote from: Abood on May 17, 2012, 11:17 PM
    Lucky ducky? What's so "lucky" about it? Maybe if people stopped giving into the religious crap that life is meaningless without some objective truth, the universe would be a happier place to exist in.


    Tell that to kids dying as "collateral damage" in senseless wars or due to preventable diseases.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #32 - May 17, 2012, 11:21 PM
    Again with the guilt-tripping. War criminals are the ones responsible.
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #33 - May 17, 2012, 11:22 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on May 17, 2012, 11:18 PM
    So by extension, people who have lived happily and comfortably for generations are ok to have babies, but people too poor to dress themselves shouldn't? Huh?


    I think the world would likely be a better place if such a thing occurred, so yes. Is this a controversial opinion? And if so, why?
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #34 - May 17, 2012, 11:26 PM
    Quote from: Abood on May 17, 2012, 11:21 PM
    Again with the guilt-tripping. War criminals are the ones responsible.


    I still don't see where the guilt comes in. Dude, I'm glad that you're happy and love living your life. This doesn't change the fact that for so many people in the world any sort of changing of perspective about religious crap or objective truth won't make a single bit of difference to their bleak condition.

    Honestly, if innocent kids dying for the aforementioned reasons, or indeed anyone undergoing unbearable amounts of suffering needs to cling to a crappy religious delusion to make their lives more bearable then there's really not much way for me to hold that against them.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #35 - May 17, 2012, 11:27 PM
    Warning: Life may cause death.

     Roll Eyes
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #36 - May 17, 2012, 11:31 PM
    Wow, and I'm the one who scored a 70% on the misanthropy scale. Your inability to appreciate the real suffering of others is downright amazing.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #37 - May 17, 2012, 11:31 PM
    Quote from: asbie on May 17, 2012, 11:22 PM
    I think the world would likely be a better place if such a thing occurred, so yes. Is this a controversial opinion? And if so, why?

    Because it promotes maintaining the status quo and dismisses positive social mobility...
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #38 - May 17, 2012, 11:33 PM
    Quote from: asbie on May 17, 2012, 11:31 PM
    Wow, and I'm the one who scored a 70% on the misanthropy scale. Your inability to appreciate the real suffering of others is downright amazing.

    Do you even know why poor people have a lot of children? It's because they need people to help them with the work. Yeh, I'm the one who's unable to appreciate the suffering of others. Roll Eyes

    Your worldview turns a blind eye to the oppressed. Instead of trying to change the world to make it better for them, you tell them to just stop reproducing, as if that would reduce poverty and suffering.
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #39 - May 17, 2012, 11:36 PM
    Quote from: Abood on May 17, 2012, 11:33 PM
    Do you even know why poor people have a lot of children? It's because they need people to help them with the work.

    That's an over-simplification. There can also be cultural factors that give extra kudos to men who sire lots of children. Ethiopia is an example of this.


    Quote
    Instead of trying to change the world to make it better for them, you tell them to just stop reproducing, as if that would reduce poverty.

    Actually, it might. Labour markets work on supply and demand, just like most things.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #40 - May 17, 2012, 11:36 PM
    Kid is born with AIDS, early in his doomed life a warlord makes him a quadraplegic as he belongs to a rival tribe. As his family attempts to escape from the ongoing civil war, they relocate to strange surroundings in which he gets bit by a mosquito and contracts malaria. As he's slowly dying from the cumulative effect of these diseases (in addition to the infection he contracted from rough handling during the exodus), he and his mother proceed to get hit by a truck.

    Should this child have ever been born?
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #41 - May 17, 2012, 11:38 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on May 17, 2012, 11:31 PM
    Because it promotes maintaining the status quo and dismisses positive social mobility...


    Ok.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #42 - May 17, 2012, 11:38 PM
    Just to clarify, I do think the universe is basically unethical. Being ethical isn't part of its job description.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #43 - May 17, 2012, 11:39 PM
    Thing is having the right to have children is one of the most fundamental biological right a person has.
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #44 - May 17, 2012, 11:41 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on May 17, 2012, 11:38 PM
    Just to clarify, I do think the universe is basically unethical. Being ethical isn't part of its job description.


    Sly philosophical traps aside, I basically agree with you.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #45 - May 17, 2012, 11:41 PM
    And in what circumstances should that right be overridden?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #46 - May 17, 2012, 11:41 PM
    How about instead of telling poor people to stop reproducing, we tell privileged people to stop controlling all the wealth, eh?

    Placing the burden on the victims, now that's fucking rich (pun very much intended).
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #47 - May 17, 2012, 11:45 PM
    Quote from: Abood on May 17, 2012, 11:41 PM
    How about instead of telling poor people to stop reproducing, we tell privileged people to stop controlling all the wealth, eh?

    Placing the burden on the victims, now that's fucking rich (pun very much intended).

    In what way is having too many children an advantage to them? Apart from cultural incentives, some of it comes down to poor medical care and consequent high child mortality. So yes, we should be telling them to stop having so many kids if survival rates are improved.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #48 - May 17, 2012, 11:46 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on May 17, 2012, 11:41 PM
    And in what circumstances should that right be overridden?


    And is it a right at all? And what is a biological right, dustie? I am glad that you didn't say human right.
    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #49 - May 17, 2012, 11:47 PM
    Well that was going to be the next bit. grin12
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #50 - May 17, 2012, 11:47 PM
    Considering rich people use a shitload more resources than poor people, I think a better solution would be to force rich people not to have kids, steal their money, and give it to the poor.
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #51 - May 17, 2012, 11:49 PM
    Quote from: Abood on May 17, 2012, 11:41 PM
    How about instead of telling poor people to stop reproducing, we tell privileged people to stop controlling all the wealth, eh?

    Placing the burden on the victims, now that's fucking rich (pun very much intended).


    Decisions with moral implications never occur in a vacuum. Regardless of who's at fault for the overall situation, the individual still has to come to terms with their personal decision of whether or not to reproduce.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #52 - May 17, 2012, 11:50 PM
    Quote from: Abood on May 17, 2012, 11:47 PM
    Considering rich people use a shitload more resources than poor people, I think a better solution would be to force rich people not to have kids, steal their money, and give it to the poor.

    Go for it. Sounds wonderful.

    By the way though, exactly what would be wrong with my suggestion of improving medical care and simultaneously encouraging people to not have more kids than they can feed?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #53 - May 17, 2012, 11:53 PM
    We should all be responsible to fix the problem of world poverty, not just poor people. If anything, the privileged should be more responsible.
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #54 - May 17, 2012, 11:53 PM
    Quote from: Abood on May 17, 2012, 11:47 PM
    Considering rich people use a shitload more resources than poor people, I think a better solution would be to force rich people not to have kids, steal their money, and give it to the poor.


    Cool, I have no problem with your considering this an ethical course of action. Unfortunately its not one that you as an individual can take, whereas imo the equally ethical decision not to procreate (considering your circumstances) and extend suffering to future generations is.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #55 - May 17, 2012, 11:54 PM
    Oh sure, but you're still evading my question.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #56 - May 17, 2012, 11:55 PM
    Quote from: Al-Ma`arri on May 17, 2012, 11:46 PM
    And is it a right at all? And what is a biological right, dustie? I am glad that you didn't say human right.



    Well, if we take the whole reason of our existence is down to survival of our genes/evolution etc etc, then the right for each individual to have children should never be taken away. It's the core reason of our existence, although we create different reasons etc, meaning to life to 'fill in gaps' which is just fine but reality of it is we are simply machines carrying genetic code and trying to preserve that.
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #57 - May 17, 2012, 11:55 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on May 17, 2012, 11:54 PM
    Oh sure, but you're still evading my question.

    I'm not. Telling people not to reproduce if they can't afford to places responsibility on them for being poor.

    I'm not saying they should reproduce. What I'm saying is that it's up to them. Neither you nor I nor any government has the right to tell them what to do.
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #58 - May 17, 2012, 11:57 PM
    Quote from: Abood on May 17, 2012, 11:53 PM
    We should all be responsible to fix the problem of world poverty, not just poor people. If anything, the privileged should be more responsible.


    What part of personal decision with individual moral/ethical implications do you not understand?
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Anti-Natalism
     Reply #59 - May 17, 2012, 11:59 PM
    Quote from: Abood on May 17, 2012, 11:55 PM
    I'm not. Telling people not to reproduce if they can't afford to places responsibility on them for being poor.

    I'm not saying they should reproduce. What I'm saying is that it's up to them. Neither you nor I nor any government has the right to tell them what to do.

    It's not (generally) unethical to make suggestions to people.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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