Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
Today at 01:32 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
Today at 09:01 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
Today at 08:53 AM

New Britain
Yesterday at 08:17 AM

Gaza assault
by zeca
November 27, 2024, 07:13 PM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
November 24, 2024, 06:05 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
November 22, 2024, 06:45 AM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
November 19, 2024, 11:36 PM

Dutch elections
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 10:11 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 08:46 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
November 07, 2024, 09:56 AM

The origins of Judaism
by zeca
November 02, 2024, 12:56 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Some help with a Quran translation

 (Read 3231 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Some help with a Quran translation
     OP - May 28, 2012, 08:07 AM

    Hey there, I found a passage in the Quran I am sort of confused about ...

    4:43

    يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَقْرَبُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَأَنتُمْ سُكَارَىٰ حَتَّىٰ تَعْلَمُوا مَا تَقُولُونَ وَلَا جُنُبًا إِلَّا عَابِرِي سَبِيلٍ حَتَّىٰ تَغْتَسِلُوا ۚ وَإِن كُنتُم مَّرْضَىٰ أَوْ عَلَىٰ سَفَرٍ أَوْ جَاءَ أَحَدٌ مِّنكُم مِّنَ الْغَائِطِ أَوْ لَامَسْتُمُ النِّسَاءَ فَلَمْ تَجِدُوا مَاءً فَتَيَمَّمُوا صَعِيدًا طَيِّبًا فَامْسَحُوا بِوُجُوهِكُمْ وَأَيْدِيكُمْ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَفُوًّا غَفُورًا

    Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la taqraboo alssalata waantum sukara hatta taAAlamoo ma taqooloona wala junuban illa AAabiree sabeelin hatta taghtasiloo wa-in kuntum marda aw AAala safarin aw jaa ahadun minkum mina algha-iti aw lamastumu alnnisaa falam tajidoo maan fatayammamoo saAAeedan tayyiban faimsahoo biwujoohikum waaydeekum inna Allaha kana AAafuwwan ghafooran

    In the translated version I have, " لَامَسْتُمُ النِّسَاءَ " is translated as "touch a woman" . But in other translations online I also found "cohabited with women" and "had intercourse with a woman" and a couple more versions.

    I am confused because earlier in the paragraph it already says that if you are sexually unclean (junuban) you should wash before prayer, so I am wondering if the "touch a woman" part refers to (again) something specifically sexual, or if it's any kind of touch. As in, do you have to wash yourself before prayer if you simply touched a woman ?

    Thanks to anyone who can clarify Smiley

  • Re: Some help with a Quran translation
     Reply #1 - May 28, 2012, 08:27 AM

    Hi Criss,,

    Short answer: Some consider Laamastum to mean actual sexual intercourse, others intimate touching and others that it is simply touching.

    Here is a longer explanation:


    7.      Touching Women[22]

    The scholars differed over whether the touching of a woman nullifies wudu`.

    In the Shafi’ee madh-hab[23] the wudu` of a man is nullified if he touches a woman, without a barrier, with his hand or otherwise, regardless of whether she is attractive or not, Muslim or non-Muslim, except a mahram[24] (by blood, nursing or marriage).

    In the Maalikee madh-hab, touching of women nullifies the wudu` of the toucher and the touched if the following conditions are met[25]:

    The toucher has reached puberty
    The subject of the touch is one of the nature from which pleasure is usually derived; even if she is not of age and even if the touch occurs by a nail or hair, or with/without a barrier
    The toucher intends or feels pleasure while touching
    In the Hanafee madh-hab, the touching of a woman, even with desire, does not nullify the wudu`.  They consider the words “laamastum” to refer to intercourse.   

    The favored opinion of the author, that of the Hanbalees, is as follows: (the type of touching that would nullify the wudu` is that which fulfills the following criteria)

    The touch is sensual (arousing sexual feelings)
    Regardless of who is touched (i.e. male touching female or vice verse, or even of the same sex, young or old person, mahram or non-mahram, etc.)
    Regardless of whether or not a barrier is present (i.e. skin to skin or over clothing)
    Both the one touching and the touched would have their wudu` nullified if they derived pleasure from the touch

    Evidence for the correctness of this view:

    Aisha narrated that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) would kiss one of his wives, then he would go out to perform salah and would not renew his wudu`.  This hadith indicates that touching of the woman doesn’t nullify the wudu`.

    Narrated ‘Aisha: “I used to sleep in front of Allah’s Apostle with my legs opposite his Qibla (facing him); and whenever he prostrated, he pushed my feet and I withdrew them and whenever he stood, I stretched them.” ‘Aisha added, “In those days there were no lamps in the houses.”  If touching a woman would nullify the wudu`, then the Prophet (peace be upon) would not have touched his wife and then continue praying. There are many other reports that substantiate this claim.

    http://deenesteem.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/fiqh-tahaarah-p5/
  • Re: Some help with a Quran translation
     Reply #2 - May 28, 2012, 08:35 AM

    Thank you <3

    I was reading this and thinking ...wait a minute ...if you must rub yourself with sand/earth/dust (if you can't find water) after touching a woman, does that mean that women are for all intents and purposes, dirtier than dirt ?
  • Re: Some help with a Quran translation
     Reply #3 - May 28, 2012, 09:00 AM

    To be fair I think it's more about not allowing any sense of "arousal" to break the purity of the state of Wudu. A woman must also re-new her Wudu in such cases.

    btw I rarely post these days but was browsing this morning and saw ur post and simply had to reply. <3

    Thanks also for what you said at the conference in the US  far away hug
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »