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 Topic: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?

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  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     OP - June 02, 2012, 02:22 PM
    http://technoccult.net/archives/2009/10/16/in-the-beginning-god-separated-the-heaven-and-the-earth-is-correct-translation-says-academic/

    Quote
    Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and author, claims the first sentence of Genesis “in the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth” is not a true translation of the Hebrew
    ....
    The first sentence should now read “in the beginning God separated the Heaven and the Earth”

  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #1 - June 02, 2012, 02:59 PM
    Sorry, what are you saying? :S
    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #2 - June 02, 2012, 03:18 PM
    apparentely the correct translation of bible says that god seperated the heaven and the earth.

    Which gives us one more possible source for the quran's similar version of events. A version of events that Muslims present as accurately, and scientifically, describing the big bang.
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #3 - June 02, 2012, 03:19 PM
    So you're saying Muhammad knew Hebrew? :S
    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #4 - June 02, 2012, 03:21 PM
    I dont know hebrew, nor arabic, and yet I know what both of these books say. it is no miracle
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #5 - June 02, 2012, 03:23 PM
    You thought the Bible said that the Earth and Heaven were 'created', not 'spatially separated', until you read this article right?

    So you're saying that the Arab Jews who Muhammad encountered told him that the actual meaning of that verse in Genesis is 'separate', but the Christian and Jewish translators 900-1400 years later were unable to figure this out.
    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #6 - June 02, 2012, 03:29 PM
    If its possible to interpret the bible verse as separating the heaven from the earth, then i will add it the long list of other possible sources where Muhammed could have plagiarised it from.

  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #7 - June 02, 2012, 03:32 PM
    If I was a Muslim, this would increase my faith in the Qur'an, not detract from it.

    And it would only be seen as "plagiarism" if you come with the bias that the Qur'an is false. If you come with the opposite bias, it would just re-enforce the belief that the Qur'an is true, since it's better at clarifying the OT than the followers of that text themselves.
    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #8 - June 02, 2012, 03:33 PM
    it is false. the 'heavens' were not seperated from the earth
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #9 - June 02, 2012, 03:35 PM
    Okay.....
    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #10 - June 02, 2012, 06:47 PM
    Egyptian
    Ra seperated the eath from sky by placing the air god Shu between the sky god Nut, and the earth god Geb.

    Greek
    The earth (Gaia) gives birth to the sky (Uranus)


    Babylonian
    Marduk splits the corpse of Tiamat into two parts. the heavens and the earth.

    Indian
    Brahma is born in an egg, A year later, he splits the egg into two halves which become the heaven and earth

    Chinese
    Pan Gu is hatched from a cosmic egg. Half the shell is above him as the sky, the other half below him as the earth


    Norse
    Odin and his brothers kill Ymir. they split his body and making the earth from his flesh, and the heavens from his skull.


    Maori
    "It is by the strength of Tane that the sky and Earth were separated, and Light was born."

    Sumerian
    "After heaven had been moved away from earth,
    After earth had been separated from heaven,
    After the name of man had been fixed;"
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #11 - June 02, 2012, 07:01 PM
    Ibn Kathir
    "in the beginning they were all one piece, attached to one another and piled up on top of one another, then he seperated them from one another...placing the air between the earth and the lowest heaven"
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #12 - June 02, 2012, 07:28 PM
    Thanks. Smiley Though can you actually tell me where in Ibn Kathir you found that? Thanks!
    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #13 - June 02, 2012, 07:43 PM
    http://www.theholybook.org/content/view/7920/2/
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #14 - June 02, 2012, 07:46 PM
    It says the page that I'm trying to access doesn't exist. Huh?
    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #15 - June 02, 2012, 08:03 PM
    Quote
    Thanks.  Though can you actually tell me where in Ibn Kathir you found that? Thanks!


    Quote
    It says the page that I'm trying to access doesn't exist.


    go to www.qtafsir.com and read the tafsir of the verse 21:30
    Disbelief doesn't justify getting tortured in eternal hell
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #16 - June 02, 2012, 08:05 PM
    http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2646&Itemid=76
    Disbelief doesn't justify getting tortured in eternal hell
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #17 - June 02, 2012, 08:09 PM
    Thank you! Smiley
    Self ban for Ramadan (THAT RHYMES)

    Expect me to come back a Muslim. Cool Tongue j/k we'll see..
  • Re: seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #18 - June 03, 2012, 08:05 PM
    it looks to me like these verses in the quran are talking about seperating the sky ('the blue bit'), from the (flat and geocentric) earth, raising it up, and placing air in between.
    It reminds of a guy in Asterix books who is scared of the sky falling on his head. After reading the following in the quran, I am more certain:

    Quote
    52: 44   Were they to see a piece of the sky falling (on them), they would (only) say: "Clouds gathered in heaps!"   

    34:9   If We wished, We could cause the earth to swallow them up, or cause a piece of the sky to fall upon them.


  • seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #19 - April 11, 2013, 10:20 PM
    the entire book "creation myths of the world" can be downloaded here:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/39813719/Creation-Myths-of-the-World
    (Islam is rightly treated like all the other myths)

    p.346 "One of the most widespread motifs in creation myths is that of the separation of Heaven (or Sky) and Earth."
    [occurring in the following mythologies]:

    Celtic
    Dhammai (Miji)
    Diegeños
    Egyptian
    Ekoi
    Gilbert Islands
    Gond
    Greek
    Hebrew
    Indian
    Japanese (Shinto)
    Korean
    Krachi
    Maori
    Mariana Islands
    Mayan
    Minyong
    Mongolian
    Mosetene
    Navajo (Dine)
    New Hebrides
    Papago (Tohono OÊodham)
    Polynesian
    Roman
    Snohomish
    Solomon Islands
    Sumerian
    Vietnamese
    Zuni

    creation myth motifs are categorised by type in Stith Thompson's motif -index. This one is motif number A625.

    As far as creation myths go, the quran isn't even an interesting one.
  • seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #20 - April 11, 2013, 10:46 PM
    Nice
  • seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #21 - April 12, 2013, 07:56 AM
    Far more interesting to me in the first line of genesis is the fact that the word used is Elohim - which literally translates as 'the Gods' and not the monotheistic version chosen by the King James bible.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #22 - April 12, 2013, 10:03 AM
    Yes and you'll get no traction with that, because the explanation usually given is that it's the old Hebrew version of the "royal we".
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #23 - April 12, 2013, 10:42 AM
    there are other obvious cases of plagiarism, but I was more interested in the fact that EVEN the supposed scientific miracles are just rehashed pagan myths
  • seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #24 - April 12, 2013, 06:09 PM
    Good Stuff Sloth

    I also found this to be very interesting, opened a topic.

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=23718.msg680624#msg680624
  • seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #25 - July 25, 2013, 12:20 AM
    "Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?" - Qur'an 21:30 

    the heavens and the earth were of one piece?
    I am no Scientist, but there were no earth at the time of Big Bang so how it can be "ONE" with heavens?
    Also, the word "Heaven" is vague. Does he mean simply the Sky or outer Space?


     


    YOLO AND SWAG WILL SET YOU FREE
  • seperating the heavens from the earth. big bang, or yet more plagiarism?
     Reply #26 - July 25, 2013, 03:15 AM
    Or another dimension beyond time and space?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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