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Theme Changer

 Topic: Marriage?

 (Read 12495 times)
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  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #30 - August 03, 2012, 10:04 PM

    Yes, it's an argument primarily against getting married within the current context, but I don't see any law change on the horizon. If the end of marriage was a notification by either party to the state, and not an application, I'd feel it were less bizarre and be willing to consider entering into one if my partner particularly wanted to do so. As it stands though, and whilst marriage remains a discriminatory institution with regards to sexuality, I'd have no part in it.

    Actually, I'm with you on the utility of ceremony. Celebrations of life coming into, going out of and joining together in the world are great, though I'd steer well clear of fathers giving away brides dressed in virgin white, vows of obedience and unrealistic "'till death do us part"s.

    With regards the contract; it wouldn't need to cover children as custody could be decided as it is at present for married and non-married parents alike. For jointly owned material possessions though, yeah I agree - particularly for a house, as even after the decree nisi, wrangling over the house, its value, who gets to stay, etcetera can really drag, during which time all involved are effectively trapped under one roof in a horrible pressure pot.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #31 - August 03, 2012, 10:19 PM

    I think we'll get there eventually. We just need to shake off the vestiges of religion and archaic process.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #32 - August 04, 2012, 08:28 AM

    I know exactly what you stated/are stating which is an obvious moral standpoint in relation to marriage that most people (myself included) would agree with. You're clearly a smart girl or lady & appear to have good debating skill BUT I think that post was just a great little trick to detract from the obvious fact that YOU MISSED THE POINT OF MY ORIGINAL POST. Your response to that orginal post was not relevant to my original assertion that non adherance to a marital contract was often inevitable given the flawed nature of human beings. In effect, your response was a STRAW MAN which was a direct result of actually missing my point.
    It's OK to admit it you know. We're all flawed in some way.  yes


    Once again, you'd have a point IF infidelity was a ubiquitous aspect of the human condition. As Ishina pointed out, a 50-60% infidelity rate is FAR from establishing such ubiquity in married couples. Clearly a good amount of people are still able to successfully remain faithful to the terms of marriage, it's pretty preposterous to suggest otherwise. As such someone can certainly enter into the contract with the reasonable expectation that both sides will remain faithful to it, and the onus is on the one that breaches the terms of the contract as (S)HE is the party that is responsible for either mistakenly breaching it or otherwise entering into it fraudulently. The latter case will certainly be true for someone who felt incapable of being faithful to the terms of a marriage in the first place.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #33 - August 04, 2012, 03:22 PM

    To both of you ladies (Ishina, Asbie) - Nope- I think my original assertion is still perfectly valid in light of the fact that the stats indicate that in approx. 80% of marriages infidelity has occured by one of the partners. My original point stands.  This is fun.  dance

    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #34 - August 04, 2012, 04:50 PM

    Argumentum ad populum. Speeding, illegal music downloads, DUI all don't involve any fault either. How wonderful.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #35 - August 04, 2012, 06:07 PM

    To both of you ladies (Ishina, Asbie) - Nope- I think my original assertion is still perfectly valid in light of the fact that the stats indicate that in approx. 80% of marriages infidelity has occured by one of the partners. My original point stands.  This is fun.  dance

    Nice chicanery.

    Your original point doesn't stand because that wasn't even your original point. Your original point was that marriage is doomed to failure because people are hard-wired to cheat by sexual intercourse. Which is, of course, just an over-reduction and an incredibly simple-minded way of seeing things.

    I pointed out that (according to the unsourced pop-science headline piece you used as proof) only half of people cheat (in some form). And half is not most, and certainly not "nearly all."

    You then abandon your original point, I assume because you saw your schoolboy error, and then move on to a new point, which is that 80% of marriages are affected by infidelity in some form (according to the same unsourced pop-science headline piece you used as proof).

    Until you actually offer some actual sourced proof of this, I suspect that the 80% figure isn't as supportive to your point as you seem to think. 80% of marriages affected by infidelity doesn't mean that 80% of marriages fail. Nor does it necessarily mean that it is always sexual intercourse outside of marriage. I suspect it can mean anything from long sexual affairs to a bit of flirting online. And that a good slice of that 80% overcome this and do not automatically fail.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #36 - August 04, 2012, 08:08 PM

    Your original point doesn't stand because that wasn't even your original point. Your original point was that marriage is doomed to failure because people are hard-wired to cheat by sexual intercourse. Which is, of course, just an over-reduction and an incredibly simple-minded way of seeing things.


    Straw man I’m afraid. You should seek clarification before jumping to conclusions as to what my original point was. My original point (if  you read it again)  clearly states that it is ‘strict adherance’ to a traditional marital contract (with obviously the normal stipulation of sexual fidelity that goes with it) that is doomed to failure. I never meant or said that the marriage itself is doomed to failure as a result of any infidelity- in fact I believe it should not result in the failure of a marriage.
    Also, I said men are ‘hardwired’ to copulate with other females & women have similar desires. This does not explicitly exclude the possibility of non physical forms of infidelity so I’m not being reductionist.

    I pointed out that (according to the unsourced pop-science headline piece you used as proof) only half of people cheat (in some form). And half is not most, and certainly not "nearly all."


    1)It is best not to selectively make use of that source yourself to illustrate your own point & then immediately after I’ve used it try to discredit it as being weak. What was the word you used – chicanery.

    2) Half is enough to make my point a perfectly valid one but actually if we look at what it says- it says 50% of women & 60% of men have extra marital affairs- this makes my point a perfectly valid one in light of that source which you chose to you use yourself when it suited you This does not prove my point .I haven’t stated that I can prove this without any shadow of a doubt as statistics on this sort of thing are likely to be not reflective of the true position- who wants to admit to cheating? Having said that, what stats there are out there still indicate I have a strong point.

    You then abandon your original point, I assume because you saw your schoolboy error, and then move on to a new point, which is that 80% of marriages are affected by infidelity in some form (according to the same unsourced pop-science headline piece you used as proof).


    Nope. My original point is still a solid one that I have stuck to. That 80% figure from that source is just me using it to highlight & assert the validity of my original point which I have clarified above. I have not moved on or changed to a new point at all.

    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #37 - August 04, 2012, 08:22 PM

    50 and 60 percent infidelity rates only show that marriage is not for everyone. You're abusing statistics and coming off as a dogmatic pseudo-intellectual.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #38 - August 05, 2012, 01:55 AM

    To both of you ladies (Ishina, Asbie)

    I love how asbie hasn't corrected you on that yet.

    Started from the bottom, now I'm here
    Started from the bottom, now my whole extended family's here

    JOIN THE CHAT
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #39 - August 05, 2012, 02:31 AM

    .
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #40 - August 05, 2012, 03:24 AM

    50 and 60 percent infidelity rates only show that marriage is not for everyone. You're abusing statistics and coming off as a dogmatic pseudo-intellectual.


    Nail. Head. Hit.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #41 - August 05, 2012, 03:25 AM

    I love how asbie hasn't corrected you on that yet.


    That's not even the first time it's happened! Grin


    Guys, guys, it's okay. My new avatar should pretty much clear up all uncertainty from this point onward.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #42 - August 05, 2012, 03:37 AM

    .
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #43 - August 05, 2012, 12:32 PM

    ^ Lol! You can't be serious with that?. 50-60 per cent does not mean just 'some' people as you just put it. Tell me- if it was your birthday & the cake was quickly cut in half by someone & one half devoured would you think it was OK coz it was only 'some' of the cake devoured or would you call him/her a greedy git for scoffing half of your cake??

    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #44 - August 05, 2012, 12:33 PM

    Straw man I’m afraid.

    If this:

    My words: Your original point was that marriage is doomed to failure because people are hard-wired to cheat by sexual intercourse. Which is, of course, just an over-reduction and an incredibly simple-minded way of seeing things.

    … is a straw man of this:

    Your words: Strict adherence to a marital contract in the traditional sense is unrealistic & doomed to failure at some point as most men are hardwired to copulate with as many females as possible... I'm saying that most people are like this (deep down)- women too.... given enough time & the right opportunity to transgress most flawed human beings will cheat at some point but most likely when they are in their sexual prime.

    … then I might as well give up now, because you're clearly speaking in an alien language that only superficially resembles English by coincidence.

    You should seek clarification before jumping to conclusions as to what my original point was. My original point (if  you read it again)  clearly states that it is ‘strict adherance’ to a traditional marital contract (with obviously the normal stipulation of sexual fidelity that goes with it) that is doomed to failure. I never meant or said that the marriage itself is doomed to failure as a result of any infidelity- in fact I believe it should not result in the failure of a marriage.
    Also, I said men are ‘hardwired’ to copulate with other females & women have similar desires. This does not explicitly exclude the possibility of non physical forms of infidelity so I’m not being reductionist.

    1)It is best not to selectively make use of that source yourself to illustrate your own point & then immediately after I’ve used it try to discredit it as being weak. What was the word you used – chicanery.

    2) Half is enough to make my point a perfectly valid one but actually if we look at what it says- it says 50% of women & 60% of men have extra marital affairs- this makes my point a perfectly valid one in light of that source which you chose to you use yourself when it suited you This does not prove my point .I haven’t stated that I can prove this without any shadow of a doubt as statistics on this sort of thing are likely to be not reflective of the true position- who wants to admit to cheating? Having said that, what stats there are out there still indicate I have a strong point.

    Nope. My original point is still a solid one that I have stuck to. That 80% figure from that source is just me using it to highlight & assert the validity of my original point which I have clarified above. I have not moved on or changed to a new point at all.

    I've quoted the rest of your post so that I can return to read it whenever I am having trouble sleeping.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #45 - August 05, 2012, 12:36 PM

    ^ Lol! You can't be serious with that?. 50-60 per cent does not mean just 'some' people as you just put it. Tell me- if it was your birthday & the cake was quickly cut in half by someone & one half devoured would you think it was OK coz it was only 'some' of the cake devoured or would you call him/her a greedy git for scoffing half of your cake??

    That's a terrible analogy.

    Frankly, I don't think you're even worth engaging in a discussion with. You obviously lack reasoning skills.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #46 - August 05, 2012, 12:39 PM

    The feelings mutual- I prefer to ignore you as I will be doing.

    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #47 - August 05, 2012, 12:46 PM

    Ishina- it's clear English & I've made my point perfectly clear. Strict adherance means sticking to the terms/norms/stipulations of marriage. What you chose to infer from clear English is entirely up to you & shows a lack of comprehension on your part. Anyway- I'm done with this thread.

    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #48 - August 05, 2012, 12:54 PM

    Your clumsy, ignorant, unsophisticated, black & white, grunt grunt, proto-minded argument just doesn't interest me anyway. It probably wouldn't interest me even if you miraculously managed to prove it correct.

    The statistic you're holding aloft like some kind of winner's prize tells you nothing. It doesn't tell you how many of those married couples had grown apart anyway. It doesn't say how many had their sexual appetite out of sync. Doesn't say how many partners were abusive or jealous or distant or suffocating. It doesn't say if anything caused one person in the relationship to look elsewhere. It doesn't say how many found love or companionship first, and then ended up sleeping with them as a secondary phase.

    Nothing supports your base assumption, which was that marriage is doomed to fail because Tarzan like fuck many many Jane. MAN MUST SEX, ooga booga. Women too, ug ug.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #49 - August 05, 2012, 04:10 PM

    Now you're just being a childish, annoying little girl crying because she can't get the better of a man.
    I' m not holding that stat up as a winners prize- like I said before- it validates my initial claim not proves. Also, that very stat is one you used yourself in one of your posts to argue that my base point was redundant. How does it suddenly become valid when you choose to use it YOU HYPOCRITE?

    You don't even have the intellect to understand my base assumption properly anyhow. You chose to simplify it & misrepresent it to a point that your childish, feeble little mind could attempt to attack.
    Final point - to say 'nothing' supports my base premise is simply a lie. The very figures in the article I posted support my base assumption. Note the word support here as I know your infantile level of comprehension sometimes get confused between the words 'support' and 'Prove'.
    Here is some more support for you :http://www.divorcestatistics.info/latest-infidelity-statistics-of-usa.html
    & more (sourced) http://www.statisticbrain.com/infidelity-statistics/  - all good stats that support my point whether you like it or not.

    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #50 - August 05, 2012, 05:03 PM

    You don't even have the intellect to understand my base assumption properly anyhow. You chose to simplify it & misrepresent it to a point that your childish, feeble little mind could attempt to attack.
    Final point - to say 'nothing' supports my base premise is simply a lie. The very figures in the article I posted support my base assumption. Note the word support here as I know your infantile level of comprehension sometimes get confused between the words 'support' and 'Prove'.
    Here is some more support for you :http://www.divorcestatistics.info/latest-infidelity-statistics-of-usa.html
    & more (sourced) http://www.statisticbrain.com/infidelity-statistics/  - all good stats that support my point whether you like it or not.

    I'm saying that most people are like this (deep down)- women too. When they actually get married they are often naive & see it (marriage) through rose tinted glasses & may have all the best intentions in the world at that time.
    However, given enough time & the right opportunity to transgress most flawed human beings will cheat at some point but most likely when they are in their sexual prime.

    Quote
    Percent of married men who have strayed at least once during their married lives: 22%
    Percent of married women who have strayed at least once during their married lives: 14%


    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #51 - August 05, 2012, 05:13 PM

    Not wanting.g to get involved at a late stage in this thread but people mistaking asbie for a women, well they are half right, biggest mangina on the board.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #52 - August 05, 2012, 05:18 PM

    Be careful where you swing that handbag.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #53 - August 05, 2012, 05:54 PM

    Not wanting.g to get involved at a late stage in this thread but people mistaking asbie for a women, well they are half right, biggest mangina on the board.


    That's not what your mother said.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #54 - August 05, 2012, 06:13 PM

    Straw man I’m afraid. You should seek clarification before jumping to conclusions as to what my original point was. My original point (if  you read it again)  clearly states that it is ‘strict adherance’ to a traditional marital contract (with obviously the normal stipulation of sexual fidelity that goes with it) that is doomed to failure. I never meant or said that the marriage itself is doomed to failure as a result of any infidelity- in fact I believe it should not result in the failure of a marriage.


    This "clarification" only confounds your point further, as you're now not only defending party's willful and knowing breach of contract, you're also defending the act of sexual infidelity as some sort of naturalistic certainty. Your own statistics don't bear this out, let alone the sniff test of common human experience, in which married sexual life clearly isn't the sort of wild swinger's fantasy that you're trying to concoct.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #55 - August 05, 2012, 06:32 PM

    That's not what your mother said.


    Lol. In your dreams.

    Mangina - the best part of your old man dribbled down your mother's  leg.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #56 - August 05, 2012, 06:46 PM

    ^ How did you manage to screw that stock insult up?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #57 - August 05, 2012, 06:48 PM

    Not wanting.g to get involved at a late stage in this thread but people mistaking asbie for a women, well they are half right, biggest mangina on the board.


    Damn, Asbie. How did you manage to piss this guy off ? Grin

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #58 - August 05, 2012, 06:54 PM

    Damn, Asbie. How did you manage to piss this guy off ? Grin


    Called him out for being being a misogynistic, rape and domestic violence apologist seeking to cloak his shitty ideas under the veneer of intellectual skepticism.

    I guess he didn't like it stated all plain-faced like that. Poor him.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Marriage?
     Reply #59 - August 05, 2012, 06:55 PM

    Ishina - yeah it has been a long long time since I heard that, how badly did I mangle that.  Lol

    Cato - think you will find that I wasn't the one to bring mothers into it, ergo using your reasoning it was the mangina that was truly pissed off. Lol.

    PS - ishina , refresh my mind how does the insult go.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
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