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 Topic: Adultery : is it harmless act ?

 (Read 4714 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     OP - July 31, 2012, 05:10 PM

    Many days back I wrote a blog post

    http://azdahaexmuslim.wordpress.com/2012/03/01/what-in-quran-disturbed-me-as-a-muslim/

    In this blog post I mentioned the punishment for adultery/fornication in Quran and Sunnah. Before posting the verse and commentary I wrote the following

    Quote
    Adultery again is a harmless act , it do not harm anyone if done by consent . Why god is so much intolerant about this act, why the hell he ordered 100 lashes for those who commit it and stone woman if she is married .What loss is caused by those who have sex with consent ?


    Basically the point I was trying to make was that the punishment is barbaric.

    While discussing with someone who read my blog post. He pointed out that adultery is not a harmless act , it can ruin families . Although I tried to defend it but i knew my reasons were hollow and carried no wait. That guy is not a muslim and he do not support lashing and stoning. He is ok with non married people having consensual sex.

    I want to know your opinion on that

    Disbelief doesn't justify getting tortured in eternal hell
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #1 - July 31, 2012, 05:40 PM

    Adultery is of course immoral, as a thing made of deception and betrayal and unique in its ability to cause harm.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #2 - July 31, 2012, 06:17 PM

    I have to agree with that guy. Adultery usually isn't harmless, especially if you have children. It can be harmless if both parties agree to have some kind of open relationship, but I think even that is playing with fire.  But it's definitely harmful to kill people who are adulterers. There is no forgiveness in that, it's just revenge that is way out of proportion to the crime. And it's not just either, justice is basically an eye for an eye, not a thousand eyes for an eye.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #3 - July 31, 2012, 06:28 PM

    WEll adultery as in a spouse cheating on their other spouse without consent? That is definitely harmful mentally, if not physically.

    Obviously the punishment prescribed for adulterers in Islam is utterly barbaric and should not apply in any advanced civilization.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #4 - July 31, 2012, 06:40 PM

    I don't know how you could say Adultery is harmless.

    You've pledged to marry someone.
    To be faithful to them.
    To raise a family with them.
    To merge your life with their.

    They betray that trust... it is a crime.  If you want a more legal perspective, marriage is a contract and adultery breaks that contract.

    On a purely theoretical level, even today, I think adultery should be punished.  I wouldn't even be opposed to jail time for adultery.  Again, that is all on a theoretical level.  I'm against punishing adultery practically simply because it is too hard to prove and just the accusation being brought to a court of law can be problematic.

    If you want to cheat, don't get married.  It's a perfectly valid option.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #5 - July 31, 2012, 06:54 PM

    Jail time? How would you justify that? An adulterer is no risk to society and doesn't need rehabilitation.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #6 - July 31, 2012, 07:04 PM

    It's not a harmless act, its a violation of a contract at minimum, at worst it's unethical just like lying, cheating and stealing etc.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #7 - July 31, 2012, 07:11 PM

    It's a civil crime, there was no threat to society. At the most its breaking a contract, si subject to civil penalties if those are stipulated in the contract aka prenuptial.

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #8 - July 31, 2012, 08:10 PM

    Jail time? How would you justify that? An adulterer is no risk to society and doesn't need rehabilitation.


    Jail is not just for rehab or isolation.  It is also a punishment and a deterrent.  Punishment and Deterrents work well for people who have something to lose.
    Jail is a good deterrent for white collar crime.
    Jail doesn't work so well as a deterrent for a murderer.  Then it's more for isolation/rehab.

    If I rob you for $10000, I might go to jail.
    If I marry you, pledge my life to you... then break this life long trust... you're saying I don't deserve to go to jail?

    All harm is not just physical or financial.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #9 - July 31, 2012, 08:19 PM

    okey ..i have removed that part of "harmless" act....my main aim was to point out the barbarity of the punishment......

    Disbelief doesn't justify getting tortured in eternal hell
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #10 - July 31, 2012, 08:24 PM

    Hi Scamper-22-  question? What if it is the woman that has broken that trust & she has kids? Women can cheat too u know. Surely, you wouldn't send her to jail?

    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #11 - July 31, 2012, 08:44 PM

    Jail is not just for rehab or isolation.  It is also a punishment and a deterrent.

    I'm interested in how you justify it, though. "Punishment is a deterrent". People trot out that popular and crowd-pleasing line all the time, most of them without even putting any thought into it or having any intention of substantiating it. There certainly isn't a consensus as to whether or not punishment is actually effective as a deterrent. It's currently just a majority vote that punishment is a deterrent. So far I've not heard a compelling case. That's why I'm interested in how you'd justify it, at least in the case of adultery.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #12 - July 31, 2012, 08:51 PM

    Well your betraying someone's trust and depending on how long you have been in the relationship and how strong it is I can think of few things short of death that are more emotionally devastating than finding out your spouse/partner is cheating on you.  

    But I am against any legal punishment of it. It is a personal matter with the only legal interference being divorce cases.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #13 - July 31, 2012, 09:16 PM

    Adultery is of course immoral, as a thing made of deception and betrayal and unique in its ability to cause harm.

    This is my own personal view. I do have to add, however, that I don’t consider execution an apt punishment for such a transgression.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #14 - July 31, 2012, 09:24 PM

    I'm interested in how you justify it, though. "Punishment is a deterrent". People trot out that popular and crowd-pleasing line all the time, most of them without even putting any thought into it or having any intention of substantiating it. There certainly isn't a consensus as to whether or not punishment is actually effective as a deterrent. It's currently just a majority vote that punishment is a deterrent. So far I've not heard a compelling case. That's why I'm interested in how you'd justify it, at least in the case of adultery.


    Deterrents do work.  They just tend to work in the cases people don't want.  For example, they don't work in the 'tough on crime' way.  A person who feels they have nothing to lose or is irrational/mental is not going to be deterred by punishment.  So for crimes like murder, street theft... I don't think deterrence works.

    Yet, there are whole areas of life against people who have a lot to lose... to deter them against doing stupid things.
    Things like drinking and driving, driving dangerously/speeding, white collar crimes... and I would put adultery in there as well.  
    You want proof?  Do you think people speed as much when there is photo-radar?  If you must have proof.
    http://ict.illinois.edu/Publications/report%20files/FHWA-ICT-10-064.pdf

    Yes, people with something to lose do double check their behavior if there are penalties involved.  I don't see how you could argue otherwise.
    Imagine you're married but someone at work starts flirting with you.  You would think more than twice if you could be sent to jail for pursuing it.


    Hi Scamper-22-  question? What if it is the woman that has broken that trust & she has kids? Women can cheat too u know. Surely, you wouldn't send her to jail?

    Of course women can cheat too.  I wasn't just implying men.  The law should always take these things into consideration.  I don't believe in fixed sentences.
    If I was the judge, I'd weigh the harm it would cause to her children, which would be substantial... and I wouldn't send her to jail.  But I might give custody to the husband, impose financial penalties on her...
    As I said in my original post.  Theoretically, I wouldn't mind jail time for adultery.  Practically, it is a whole different ball game.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #15 - July 31, 2012, 09:26 PM

    This is my own personal view. I do have to add, however, that I don’t consider execution an apt punishment for such a transgression.

    Yeah, I don't think any crime deserves execution. Unless you count shooting a mad bomber in the head before he detonates to be a form of execution. I don't think any form of capital corporal punishment is ethically defensible. Not even spanking kids.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #16 - July 31, 2012, 09:42 PM

    Deterrents do work.  They just tend to work in the cases people don't want.  For example, they don't work in the 'tough on crime' way.  A person who feels they have nothing to lose or is irrational/mental is not going to be deterred by punishment.  So for crimes like murder, street theft... I don't think deterrence works.

    Yet, there are whole areas of life against people who have a lot to lose... to deter them against doing stupid things.
    Things like drinking and driving, driving dangerously/speeding, white collar crimes... and I would put adultery in there as well.  
    You want proof?  Do you think people speed as much when there is photo-radar?  If you must have proof.
    http://ict.illinois.edu/Publications/report%20files/FHWA-ICT-10-064.pdf

    That's a lot of reading. Quote the relevant part please.

    Yes, people with something to lose do double check their behavior if there are penalties involved.

    All criminals have something to lose. If you want to insist that prison is a deterrent, you also must concede that, at the very least, loss of freedom and privilege is something to lose. And yet, most people in prisons are repeat offenders. So clearly, the criminals who are caught and imprisoned don't seem to see prison as much of a deterrent.  

    I don't see how you could argue otherwise.

    Because a criminologist or psychologist would reject the idea that such a thing is purely rational, well aware that there are many other determining factors in play in the headspace of one who commits or will commit a crime. Mental illness, social and environmental factors, level of education, self-value, all manner of complex nuance. And rationality can just as easy go the other way, to reason someone into committing a crime or rationalise the consequences.

    I'd say the informed opinions of experts trump the intuition of a layperson.

    Imagine you're married but someone at work starts flirting with you.  You would think more than twice if you could be sent to jail for pursuing it.

    Adultery is a clandestine game. Adulterers are capable of keeping an affair secret from their own partner. Someone they live with, eat with, sleep next to. It's possible to lie and cheat to their face indefinitely. And keep it from friends, family, co-workers too. If they have the capacity to do that, why are they going to be overly concerned about some distant, abstract body of law enforcement? And that 'threat' of punishment becomes almost laughably insignificant in cases of one-night-stands. Who is ever gonna find out about that?

    All prison will do is reduce the number of adulterers who come clean to their partners of their own accord. Oh, and also fill up more prison cells unnecessarily.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #17 - July 31, 2012, 09:48 PM


    Yeah, I don't think any crime deserves execution. Unless you count shooting a mad bomber in the head before he detonates to be a form of execution. I don't think any form of capital CORPORAL punishment is ethically defensible. Not even spanking kids.


    Fixed Wink.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #18 - July 31, 2012, 09:51 PM

    Good catch.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #19 - July 31, 2012, 09:51 PM

    .

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #20 - July 31, 2012, 10:02 PM

    It's a civil crime, there was no threat to society. At the most its breaking a contract, si subject to civil penalties if those are stipulated in the contract aka prenuptial.


    This.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #21 - July 31, 2012, 10:13 PM

    I don't know how you could say Adultery is harmless.

    You've pledged to marry someone.
    To be faithful to them.
    To raise a family with them.
    To merge your life with their.

    They betray that trust... it is a crime.  If you want a more legal perspective, marriage is a contract and adultery breaks that contract.

    On a purely theoretical level, even today, I think adultery should be punished.  I wouldn't even be opposed to jail time for adultery.  Again, that is all on a theoretical level.  I'm against punishing adultery practically simply because it is too hard to prove and just the accusation being brought to a court of law can be problematic.

    If you want to cheat, don't get married.  It's a perfectly valid option.

     If your friend sleeps with the girl you liked after he told you he wouldn't, how much time should he be in jail?

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #22 - July 31, 2012, 10:20 PM

    Punishment and Deterrents work well for people who have something to lose.


    Wrong, punishment doesn't work as a deterrent, its actually the FEAR of punishment. Once the fear of punishment is taken away then punishment within itself is useless, unless you actually have a rehabilitation program. Of course some humans have brain damage, or chemical imbalances especially those who have committed acts of violence/terror those folks need to be kept in an environment where society is protected until there is a proper program to be able to deal with them in the wider community. But I'm against any hard punishments, I think the limit should be detention to solitary confinement and that too with heavy rehabilitation programs, I don't believe in punishment which is carried out as some kind of a ritual just for the sake of punishing someone.  

    Also, I am a strong believer in that, prisons who have committed white collar (paper crime) shouldn't be held in the same prisons as those who have committed violent crimes, or assaults. All soft criminals (i.e. white collar criminals, drink drivers, minor thefts, drug possession) should really only be in a symbolic prison more of a rehabilitation camp. Hard criminals, those who have committed physical crimes against another person should be separated from other criminals.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #23 - August 01, 2012, 09:28 PM

    Interestingly the xian response - he who is without sin cast the first stone - is not found in the earliest versions of the gospels we have, but maybe that is the best way?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #24 - August 01, 2012, 09:40 PM

    Wrong, punishment doesn't work as a deterrent, its actually the FEAR of punishment.

    Hence why Moses or someone like him, inspired the all powerful monopolistic god and the prophet 'improved upon it' by heightening the fear factor.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #25 - August 03, 2012, 12:39 PM

    Did someone say that whoever commits adultery should be locked up in Jail? Thats some weird ass opinion. wacko

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #26 - August 04, 2012, 03:58 PM

    Cheat on your spouse and risk him/her divorcing you. What other deterrent is needed?  wacko

    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #27 - August 04, 2012, 06:58 PM

    Cheat on your spouse and risk him/her divorcing you. What other deterrent is needed?  wacko


    Adultery at the expense of ruining your family life is not worth it.
  • Re: Adultery : is it harmless act ?
     Reply #28 - August 04, 2012, 07:31 PM

    I didn't say it was and I didn't say it wasn't.  It depends on the circumstances imo.

    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

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