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Theme Changer

 Topic: Motivations and moral values - where do you get them from?

 (Read 2341 times)
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  • Motivations and moral values - where do you get them from?
     OP - September 02, 2012, 10:26 PM

    IF YOU'RE TOO LAZY TO READ EVERYTHING, JUST READ WHAT'S IN BOLD CHARACTERS

    Hello everyone Smiley

    I'm a new member here on the CEMB forum. This is actually my first message.

    Though I've never really been a muslim, I've always had a spiritual life, and always believed in God. Only this year have I started to watch a lot of videos of The Atheist Experience show on YouTube and boy did that change my viewpoints on a lot of things.

    Since something like January 2012, I started leaning more and more towards atheism. And I don't really think I'm quite there. I've never been religious nor dogmatic, and I almost always hated religions (cause I always felt they were evil - plain and simple) but I always had my new-age hippie beliefs of God, (not the merciless egotistic maniac of Judaism/Christianity/Islam though) Astral Projection, Astrology, Law of Attraction, and the existence of the soul.
    To this day I wouldn't really call myself an atheist (maybe agnostic or theist - I honestly don't know), but since I started watching the Atheist Experience videos on Youtube, I started to question all I believed in and a lot was shattered, and I had to throw out a lot of unfounded beliefs. A lot of questions that I've always wondered about became even more puzzling: Why are we here? What's the whole point? What's the meaning? "Why is there something instead of nothing".

    Those questions don't really matter. And I'm not really expecting an answer from you guys.

    But there is another question that I always wanted to ask to other atheists, I don't know if I can put it correctly: Do you have a moral code or guidebook that you use in your life? I know there is no "one and only correct philosophy" but what do you personnally use? For example, I find Ruyard Kipling's poem, "If", to be a good text to live by.
    Do you get your values from a book ? Or multiple books ? Or movies? (And if so, which ones?) Or have you sat down and thought deeply and wrote your own kind of moral code (which I'm considering)?

    Also, what is your motivation for trying to be good and help other people? And more importantly, where do you get comfort and reassurance from? What do you do when you feel sad? or when you're facing a failure or any tough situation?


    Before, I could think to myself: "I am filled with light. I can connect with God and I'll have plenty of energy and inspiration, and I'll have the force to go on". That was rather comforting. But this is kinda shattered now, and I've found nothing else to replace it.

    So there you go. Sorry for the long post, it wasn't easy writing this.
  • Re: Motivations and moral values - where do you get them from?
     Reply #1 - September 03, 2012, 12:58 AM

    Welcome Infinity Smiley

    Speaking for myself, there is no one book or author that I get my inspiration from; there are several, none of them infallible. From the Tao Te Ching to various early Buddhist texts, to some Hindu philosophical texts, to Omar Khayyam's Rubaiyat, and Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale, to the writings of Sartre, Camus, Nietzsche, Bertrand Russell, James Baldwin, bell hooks, Einstein, Daniel Quinn, Peter Singer, Pema Chodron, Krishnamurti, Bulleh Shah, Joseph Campbell, Carl Jung and many, many more, I have found the motivation and the inner compass to traverse through life.

    There have been countless movies that have shaped my thoughts and ideas too, some directly, many indirectly. Movies like The Men Who Stare At Goats, Harold and Maude, Citizen Kane, I <3 Huckabees, have all inspired me in one way or another. Movies like The Big Lebowski, Pulp Fiction, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, Fight Club, may seem to be strange choices, but they have also played a role in helping me develop my own sense of morality.

    As far as reassurances and reasons to do good in the world, I try to follow the "golden rule" (treat others like you'd want to be treated) and I go by what feels genuinely good to me. So, doing good, helping someone else, who asks for my help, genuinely feels good, so I do it. I don't do unsolicited advice or unasked-for help because that doesn't feel good to me. I have found that I've developed a pretty good inner radar for these things, which, I think, has developed over many many years of reading voraciously, and also by observing human behaviour and trying to place myself in other people's shoes (without assuming that I know them better than they know themselves).

    This is all a complex matter, and this is a rather simplified response to your inquiry, but I hope it gives you a starting point here. Hope to see you around here more in the various discussions. Smiley

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Motivations and moral values - where do you get them from?
     Reply #2 - September 03, 2012, 08:22 AM

    I've been thinking about it and now I think I understand why we hold on to our beliefs: We want to feel that the Universe belongs to us. It's a way of feeling "at home". It's kinda like adding posters and decorations to your room. We project our minds on the whole Universe so that we feel home wherever we go.

    I don't know if it's true for every one but I think it's true for me.
  • Re: Motivations and moral values - where do you get them from?
     Reply #3 - September 03, 2012, 09:01 AM



    Before, I could think to myself: "I am filled with light. I can connect with God and I'll have plenty of energy and inspiration, and I'll have the force to go on". That was rather comforting. But this is kinda shattered now, and I've found nothing else to replace it.



    To me it's the opposite, now at least.

    I've been an ex muslim for almost 8yrs now and for many years I was lost in anger at time lost to Islam, and an emptiness that I thought I could never get back to filling, since if there is no god, there is nothing but this miserable existence that I have lived so far, and seemed to be continuing to do so.

    But given time, and plenty of interaction or just reading from the great posters we have on CEMB, like allat, or Ishina, billy, hassan and many others, I have slowly come to realise that it's this life itself that is filled with that magic that I thought only came upon my death.

    As for morality, mine never really fit with any actual religion even when I was religious, since my morality came from very black and white good vs evil fantasy books.  I would say it was exposure to them that molded me into someone who never fit in with my muslim family or community.  Islam and other religions have these grey moral vacuums where nothing seems moral.  In a fantasy book good always wins out, but in Islam, Islam is all that wins out, and women particularly come off as losers. 

    A fantasy book would depict a world in which a religion mandates physical punishment of women as the evil society that the good guys must war with, so closing the pages on some epic fantasy book as a child in order to re-enter the real world in which I was being told that this was the good world actually.............well that always left me feeling like this world wasn't worth living in, if that was the case.

    I'm not even going to try and pretend my morality has come from some deep philosophical thinker, since it doesn't, it comes from fantasy books, which are generally idealist, which is what I am.

    But I would attribute my new outlook on life to the members on this forum who have exposed me to more than fantasy worlds.  Who have taught me over time that there is fantasy to be made in this world.  A new way of living that does win out over Islam, in which I am nobody's loser.

    In Islam we are not taught to live in the moment, or to appreciate this life.

    This is actually quite telling, in that it shows Islam does nothing to help people become whole, or peaceful, or content since nothing on this world matters.  Which when you compare it to psychological understandings that over thinking and not living in the moment is actually one of the biggest causes of depression, well that speaks volumes about why you now feel something great has been shattered in you, or why I fought against disbelief believing the alternative was too bleak to learn to live with.

    It's not to bleak to live with actually.  I know I am passionate about this life now.  When I speak to my children about death when they ask me what happens when we die, it is only to tell them that we must accept that when we die it is the end of us, but that we need to live every moment as if it is precious to us.  That we need to appreciate every single good thing that happens around us, to others, to ourselves, to nature.  Learning to appreciate that has been what has slowly been lifting me out of that empty place leaving Islam created within me. 

    I'm an atheist and I am very comfortable with that now, something that wouldn't have ever happened if I had continued to live like Islam taught me to, under the belief that only what happens when I die matters. 


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Motivations and moral values - where do you get them from?
     Reply #4 - September 03, 2012, 10:34 AM

    Quote
    I have slowly come to realise that it's this life itself that is filled with that magic that I thought only came upon my death.


    beautifully said


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Motivations and moral values - where do you get them from?
     Reply #5 - September 03, 2012, 11:11 AM

    Moral code, i think my moral codes or guidebook or whatever it is-but its based on humanism-,transcends the so called "holy books" ranging from philosophy,music,movies and many others that i cant state as im typing now at this moment,its quite vast and it keeps expanding but above all i value rationality,pragmatism,stoicism and open-mindednes.i have a high regard for those values.







    Thats it. Sorry i cant make an essay out of it.

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Motivations and moral values - where do you get them from?
     Reply #6 - September 03, 2012, 11:39 AM

    To me it's the opposite, now at least.

    snip



    what a lovely post  Smiley

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Motivations and moral values - where do you get them from?
     Reply #7 - September 03, 2012, 03:36 PM

    Would you consider reading psychology books to be a good start? If so what do you suggest reading?
  • Re: Motivations and moral values - where do you get them from?
     Reply #8 - September 03, 2012, 04:36 PM

    what a lovely post  Smiley


    I agree.

    "The more powerful and original a mind, the more it will incline toward the religion of solitude."


    "i used to steal my sisters barbies so i could take their clothes off and perv on them" - prince spinoza
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