Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone

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Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone
OP - September 10, 2012, 02:26 PM

So after Muhammad and his followers took Mecca, he had all the statues of the various gods and goddesses destroyed, but he saved the black stone that was worshipped and made it the centrepiece of his faith.

Why?

Of course, I have my understanding about why he did this. Clearly the black stone was revered by the Meccans and he wanted to use it to integrate it into his new narrative.

But Muslims don't ever ponder this or ask why stones and statues were smashed except one which was maintained and continued to be revered.

Has anyone come across an attempted explanation of this if it has ever been asked?

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone
Reply #1 - September 10, 2012, 02:29 PM

I'll have to check what it says in Ibn Ishaq, but I would suspect that it was because the Jews in Medina reverred the black stone. Muhammad got all his information about why Mecca was sacred from the Jews in Medina.

Plus if you get rid of the black stone then what is left? Just an empty cube.
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Re: Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone
Reply #2 - September 10, 2012, 02:31 PM

Way I was taught, growing up, the black stone was white when mo's sky daddy sent it to earth for some reason. Over the years, it turned black because of all the evil in the world.

Yeah, cause whiteness = purity and blackness = degeneracy. No racist undertones there at all.

Of course we know what it is... it's god's vagina

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Re: Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone
Reply #3 - September 10, 2012, 02:31 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

". Islamic tradition holds that it fell from Heaven to show Adam and Eve where to build an altar. Although it has often been described as a meteorite, this hypothesis is now uncertain.[2]"

Like many things Islamic... even though Pagans were using it... apparently, it's true purpose is Islamic. Much like that Hajj was pagan... until it was said to have always been Islamic.
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Re: Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone
Reply #4 - September 10, 2012, 02:48 PM

Quote from: Tonyt on September 10, 2012, 02:29 PM
I'll have to check what it says in Ibn Ishaq, but I would suspect that it was because the Jews in Medina reverred the black stone. Muhammad got all his information about why Mecca was sacred from the Jews in Medina.

Plus if you get rid of the black stone then what is left? Just an empty cube.

True. I was just wondering if anyone had ever written about this specifically, as much to read the twisting and turning of justification for it.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone
Reply #5 - September 10, 2012, 02:49 PM

Quote from: allat on September 10, 2012, 02:31 PM
Way I was taught, growing up, the black stone was white when mo's sky daddy sent it to earth for some reason. Over the years, it turned black because of all the evil in the world.

Yeah, cause whiteness = purity and blackness = degeneracy. No racist undertones there at all.

Of course we know what it is... it's god's vagina

(Clicky for piccy!)

ha

Its astonishing how idol-worship like this manifestation is, isn't it? Its veritably Hindu in its veneration.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone
Reply #6 - September 10, 2012, 02:52 PM

Quote from: scamper_22 on September 10, 2012, 02:31 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

". Islamic tradition holds that it fell from Heaven to show Adam and Eve where to build an altar. Although it has often been described as a meteorite, this hypothesis is now uncertain.[2]"

Like many things Islamic... even though Pagans were using it... apparently, it's true purpose is Islamic. Much like that Hajj was pagan... until it was said to have always been Islamic.

Yes, convenient replacement theology.

Mecca was a centre for paganism. Yet the bulk of theology is a screed against the imperfection of the Jews and Christians in their 'deviation' from true monotheism. Why isn't there more specific engagement with the concepts and theology of the pagans of Mecca? Paganism was not without its own sophisticated philosophy and intellectual, spiritual ancestry, presumably.

Just an absence of ferocity on this issue. He goes in, smashes the statues, but leaves one standing and continues to worship it.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone
Reply #7 - September 10, 2012, 03:08 PM

obvious yoni
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Re: Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone
Reply #8 - September 10, 2012, 03:17 PM

I don't think in our schools children are taught that "Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone." This will confuse them! They're told that Muhammad just destroyed the stone idols.

Maybe one of the reasons why he kept it safe is that he couldn't come up with a religion that is very much different from Arabs' beliefs at that time. Coming up with a whole new religion isn't so easy. I can see that in my first novel that was very much autobiographical.

That was one of the things I thought about when I was still struggling to understand Islam. Why Islam looks so pagan just as much as Arabs used to be. Islam is so Arabic.
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Re: Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone
Reply #9 - September 10, 2012, 03:38 PM

Quote
Maybe one of the reasons why he kept it safe is that he couldn't come up with a religion that is very much different from Arabs' beliefs at that time.

This is what I think too.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone
Reply #10 - September 10, 2012, 06:28 PM

I thought that ibn Ishaq said that he destroyed all the idols apart from one of Mary and Jesus? Which makes me wonder if it secretly resides within the k‘abah.
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Re: Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone
Reply #11 - September 11, 2012, 12:07 AM

Ok I just checked what Ibn Ishaq reported about what the Jews of Medina said about the Kaaba, they made no mention of the black stone. They only say that "the idols that are set around it........presented an unsuperable obstacle".

Later on when he talks about Muhammad conquering Mecca it says that he touched the black stone with his stick before he used the same stick to smash up the idols. Interestingly it says that before he started smashing up the idols he entered the Kaaba and he found a wooden dove inside and smashed it up. Which is pretty prophetic if you think about it, not sure if the dove was a symbol of peace in those times......

Quote from: Kodanshi on September 10, 2012, 06:28 PM
I thought that ibn Ishaq said that he destroyed all the idols apart from one of Mary and Jesus? Which makes me wonder if it secretly resides within the k‘abah.

Yep, you are right Kodanshi, it does say that in Ibn Ishaq (pg. 552 of English translation), in the footnotes it goes on to say that Ibn Hisham removed the part about Mary and Jesus and instead reported that all the images were destroyed.
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Re: Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone
Reply #12 - September 11, 2012, 12:39 AM

Cheers for that Tony

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone
Reply #13 - September 11, 2012, 01:32 AM

Quote from: Yume89 on September 10, 2012, 03:17 PM
I don't think in our schools children are taught that "Muhammad destroyed 300 stone idols but saved the black stone." This will confuse them! They're told that Muhammad just destroyed the stone idols.

Maybe one of the reasons why he kept it safe is that he couldn't come up with a religion that is very much different from Arabs' beliefs at that time. Coming up with a whole new religion isn't so easy. I can see that in my first novel that was very much autobiographical.

That was one of the things I thought about when I was still struggling to understand Islam. Why Islam looks so pagan just as much as Arabs used to be. Islam is so Arabic.

Agreed there. I was taught during my childhood the same: Mo destroyed all the statues.

Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
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