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 Topic: polytheism / monotheism

 (Read 16655 times)
  • 12 3 ... 7 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • polytheism / monotheism
     OP - October 19, 2012, 08:11 PM
    Quote
    So Allah the Lord of the Universe gets bored?


    Maybe - But I couldn't possibly know.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #1 - October 19, 2012, 08:17 PM
    Quote from: AminRiaz on October 19, 2012, 08:10 PM
    I have answered this - Previously human societies were further away - and Tech hadn't developed for sufficient communication. Societies were smaller - and often parallel civilizations arose without much or any contact at all.  

    that is a great answer AminRiaz .. Damn why didn't I think about that 10 years back..  Yap you are riot., now we don't need 124000 prophets..  we have internet..   well may be few  Zakir Naik's will be enough..

    How about Google Prophet.. Wiki Prophet AminRiaz?? Can we start with these two species

    Quote
    I am not in touch with God to elicit a personal opinion - but I would guess not.


    You are Not?..... why not .. Stupid god is not giving time..he gave time to those 124000 bums who were living in caves.. Why this
    'HE GOD" can not communicate with me and you Riaz??

    Anyways I am so glad you joined CEMB and you are reading it.. that is more important..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #2 - October 19, 2012, 08:21 PM
    Quote
    Do you personally believe 5 billion good moral non muslims deserve to burn in flames while you sit in heaven indifferent? Are you ok with that?


    There is no one single group of 5 billion non-Muslim people. Islam distinguishes between Mushrik and non-Mushrik for example. Unitarian Chrsitians, Jews, Sikhs and etc are considered differently than say Hinduism or other forms polytheism.

    For Muslims morality IS from Islam - and those earlier faiths that were of similar strand such as Christianity.

    I don't think posing the question to an individual in such a way is fair - I don't necessarily consider myself as moral - or with a ticket to heaven. But unbelief is punished under Islam - I accept that as a Muslim.

    Quote
    Why would an "all powerful" "perfect" God NEED to be praised constantly? Is he insecure?


    I don't think there is any such need. Not on God's side - and that is not how Muslims view this.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #3 - October 19, 2012, 08:22 PM
    Quote
    thank you. Still no one answered. *sigh*


    Is anyone obliged to answer?
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #4 - October 19, 2012, 08:25 PM
    Quote from: AminRiaz on October 19, 2012, 08:11 PM
    Maybe - But I couldn't possibly know.


    You said he got bored, so you asserted he does.

    Remarkable.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #5 - October 19, 2012, 08:25 PM
    Quote
    that is a great answer AminRiaz .. Damn why didn't I think about that 10 years back..  Yap you are riot., now we don't need 124000 prophets..  we have internet..   well may be few  Zakir Naik's will be enough..

    How about Google Prophet.. Wiki Prophet AminRiaz?? Can we start with these two species

    You are Not?..... why not .. Stupid god is not giving time..he gave time to those 124000 bums who were living in caves.. Why this
    'HE GOD" can not communicate with me and you Riaz??


    If this is your attitude - you can play with/by your self. In my experience it is best to avoid smar alecks.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #6 - October 19, 2012, 08:26 PM
    Quote from: AminRiaz on October 19, 2012, 08:21 PM
    There is no one single group of 5 billion non-Muslim people. Islam distinguishes between Mushrik and non-Mushrik for example. Unitarian Chrsitians, Jews, Sikhs and etc are considered differently than say Hinduism or other forms polytheism.

    For Muslims morality IS from Islam - and those earlier faiths that were of similar strand such as Christianity.

    I don't think posing the question to an individual in such a way is fair - I don't necessarily consider myself as moral - or with a ticket to heaven. But unbelief is punished under Islam - I accept that as a Muslim.

    I don't think there is any such need. Not on God's side - and that is not how Muslims view this.

    Hmm good point.. but Riaz.. before saying that we should know what is morality? and how different is that morality from the morality of  Chrsitians, Jews, Sikhs and etc   hindus or or other pagans.. ?

    Without know those two, there is no point of talking Muslims morality and morality from Islam..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #7 - October 19, 2012, 08:26 PM
    Quote
    You said he got bored, so you asserted he does.

    Remarkable.


    I did not assert it - I couldn't possibly know - but it could be one reason . . . as there could be many others.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #8 - October 19, 2012, 08:27 PM
    Quote from: AminRiaz on October 19, 2012, 08:21 PM
    I don't think there is any such need. Not on God's side - and that is not how Muslims view this.


    And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me. 51.56
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #9 - October 19, 2012, 08:27 PM
    Quote from: AminRiaz on October 19, 2012, 08:21 PM
    There is no one single group of 5 billion non-Muslim people. Islam distinguishes between Mushrik and non-Mushrik for example. Unitarian Chrsitians, Jews, Sikhs and etc are considered differently than say Hinduism or other forms polytheism.


    She didn't ask for an Islamic view of 5 billion non Muslims and how Islam ranks them in terms of its own prejudice towards them. She simply asked as to what kind of depraved ideology considers the majority of humanity of being worthy of eternal torture simply because they don't follow your religion. This isn't morality. This is a form of sadistic ideological psychopathy.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #10 - October 19, 2012, 08:28 PM
    Quote from: AminRiaz on October 19, 2012, 08:26 PM
    I did not assert it


    Yes, you did.

    Quote from: AminRiaz on October 14, 2012, 08:00 PM
    Because he became bored of the Perfect Beings.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #11 - October 19, 2012, 08:28 PM
    Quote from: AminRiaz on October 19, 2012, 08:25 PM
    If this is your attitude - you can play with/by your self. In my experience it is best to avoid smar alecks.


    well that is a problem with the web riaz ., these smart alecks.. rascals  play themselves and they poke innocent folks .. That is the reason I am proposing this web should be banned..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #12 - October 19, 2012, 08:30 PM
    Quote
    Is there nothing in your belief about Allah that would lead to think he would give information to his people that he wants them to feel at peace, comforted and have clear direction by means of the prophets he sent? It to me seems like a rather odd idea that a God would send prophets for the purpose of just seeing how people act when they are confessed. You say very little is known about Allah however there are the 99 names of Allah and this concept of observing people in confusion seems to go against most if not all of them.


    Your questions imply that you have somehow inferred your reasoning from my answers - I don't really see that. The way you phrase your questions - I take as putting words in my mouth.

    - - -



  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #13 - October 19, 2012, 08:32 PM
    That is one possible reason I did say it - but I don't assert [that is - state with assurance, confidence or force] it.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #14 - October 19, 2012, 08:35 PM
    Quote from: monstart on October 17, 2012, 01:09 AM
    where was the logic in 124,000 prophets before finally finishing with mohammed? does he enjoy people following the wrong religion?


    By the way, where does it say that 124,000 prophets were sent? is that in the Koran itself?

    Allah really screwed up that noone listened to any of them except Muhammad.

    There is not a single people that were not in contact with Jewish civilization (i.e. in places like East Asia, Australia, Americas, etc.) that got any of the same messages that were sent down to Muhammad, about circumcision, not eating pork, hijab, hating dogs, 4 wives, not worshiping idols, etc. Only people that were in contact with Jewish civilization seemed to have heard that message.

    Does that not seem highly suspicious to you AmniRiaz?
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #15 - October 19, 2012, 08:35 PM
    Quote
    She didn't ask for an Islamic view of 5 billion non Muslims and how Islam ranks them in terms of its own prejudice towards them. She simply asked as to what kind of depraved ideology considers the majority of humanity of being worthy of eternal torture simply because they don't follow your religion. This isn't morality. This is a form of sadistic ideological psychopathy.


    In your view. It isn't just case of following one's religion or not. We believe it to be the truth . . . The Truth.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #16 - October 19, 2012, 08:38 PM
    Quote from: AminRiaz on October 14, 2012, 08:00 PM
    Because he became bored of the Perfect Beings.


    ^^^ That is a plain and unambiguous and clear statement with assurance, confidence and force.

    Obviously you're back pedaling because of the absurdity of a supposed Lord of the Universe being invested with the pathetic human trait of boredom - but it just shows how in apologia for religion believers are happy to improvise reasons when cornered and questioned.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #17 - October 19, 2012, 08:39 PM
    Why kind of tyrant subjects the majority of his subjects to endless torture? Not even Assad is that bad.  
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #18 - October 19, 2012, 08:41 PM
    Quote from: AminRiaz on October 19, 2012, 08:35 PM
    In your view. It isn't just case of following one's religion or not. We believe it to be the truth . . . The Truth.


    Yes, we know that Muslims believe it is the truth. And by even the simplest moral standards as a belief, this is inhuman, sadistic, perverted, cruel, psychotic, and reduces Allah to the status of a torturing cosmic psychopath. This is the end game of this 'truth'. You can believe what you want - non believers (all five billion and counting) are free to describe it for what it is.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #19 - October 19, 2012, 08:43 PM
    Quote
    By the way, where does it say that 124,000 prophets were sent? is that in the Koran itself?


    From Hadith. No - not in the Quran.

    Quote
    Allah really screwed up that noone listened to any of them except Muhammad.


    In there own time to varying degree - yes.

    Quote
    There is not a single people that were not in contact with Jewish civilization (i.e. in places like East Asia, Australia, Americas, etc.) that got any of the same messages that were sent down to Muhammad, about circumcision, not eating pork, hijab, hating dogs, 4 wives, not worshiping idols, etc. Only people that were in contact with Jewish civilization seemed to have heard that message.


    Muslims do not hate dogs - or any other animal. Not all Prophets had exact same law- where things like dietary laws or circumcision. Not worshiping Idols - has ALWAYS been forbidden. Hijab - is concerned with modesty - modesty is tenet of many faiths and has always been part of God's message - however its form tends to be different.

    Quote
    Why does that not seem highly supsicious to you AmniRiaz?


    Why? Do you assume I have not come across such "objections" before - and not thought about it? I have. And not to offend you - but in better form too.  

  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #20 - October 19, 2012, 08:45 PM
    Quote
    Yes, we know that Muslims believe it is the truth. And by even the simplest moral standards as a belief, this is inhuman, sadistic, perverted, cruel, psychotic, and reduces Allah to the status of a torturing cosmic psychopath. This is the end game of this 'truth'. You can believe what you want - non believers (all five billion and counting) are free to describe it for what it is.


    Yes - but 5billion aren't describing it. Here, You are.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #21 - October 19, 2012, 08:50 PM
    Quote
    Yes - but 5billion aren't describing it. Here, You are.


    Five billion people alive today are not only going to be tortured eternally in hell according to your theology, they deserve to be tortured in hell eternally.

    Innocent children, women and men deserve to be tortured without end.

    This is a theology of menacing psychopathy and sadism.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #22 - October 19, 2012, 08:51 PM
    Quote
    ^^^ That is a plain and unambiguous and clear statement with assurance, confidence and force.

    Obviously you're back pedaling because of the absurdity of a supposed Lord of the Universe being invested with the pathetic human trait of boredom - but it just shows how in apologia for religion believers are happy to improvise reasons when cornered and questioned.


    Why do I need to back pedal? This is hardly a hard, ground-breaking question.

    The statement IS
    Quote
    plain and unambiguous and clear statement


    But that does NOT make it . . .

    Quote
    assurance, confidence and force.


    - - -

    I wrote it - and I know I did not mean it to be as such. If questioned further . . . I can make that clearer. . . however - you cannot possibly come to that conclusion.

    Why do you feel the need to assume this a hard 'debate' where you will win some kinda brownie points by er labeling me with something? Or out-doing, proving you are smarter and etc. If it makes you fell better about yourself - sure go ahead.  
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #23 - October 19, 2012, 08:52 PM
    Quote from: Tonyt on October 19, 2012, 08:35 PM
    By the way, where does it say that 124,000 prophets were sent? is that in the Koran itself?

    .....................

     comes from hadith

    Quote
    This number  124,000 prophets comes from a long hadith in Musnad Imam Ahmad, narrated by Abu Umamah al-Bahili relating a conversation that Abu Dharr (ra) had with the Prophet (saws). This is some text from toward the end of that hadith:

        قُلْتُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ كَمْ وَفَّى عِدَّةُ الْأَنْبِيَاءِ قَالَ مِائَةُ أَلْفٍ وَأَرْبَعَةٌ وَعِشْرُونَ أَلْفًا الرُّسُلُ مِنْ ذَلِكَ ثَلَاثُ مِائَةٍ وَخَمْسَةَ عَشَرَ جَمًّا غَفِيرًا‏.‏

    To translate roughly, this says  I said "O Messenger of Allah, how many Prophets were there?" He replied "One hundred twenty four thousand, from which three hundred fifteen were jamma ghafeera."

     
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #24 - October 19, 2012, 08:54 PM
    Quote
    Five billion people alive today are not only going to be tortured eternally in hell according to your theology, they deserve to be tortured in hell eternally.

    Innocent children, women and men deserve to be tortured without end.

    This is a theology of menacing psychopathy and sadism.


    Islam does not hold children to be morally responsible - or those who have not heard of Islam. Only those who have heard the message and rejected it  - willfully or out of inaction. And punishment is for 'disbelief' only.
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #25 - October 19, 2012, 08:55 PM
    Those are weasel word exceptions - but they don't mitigate even in the slightest the moral horror of considering people worthy of eternal pain and torture simply for 'disbelief'
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #26 - October 19, 2012, 08:57 PM
    Quote from: AminRiaz on October 19, 2012, 08:54 PM
    Islam does not hold children to be morally responsible - or those who have not heard of Islam. Only those who have heard the message and rejected it  - willfully or out of inaction. And punishment is for 'disbelief' only.

     Seems like a double edged sword.  If God never would have shared his message we'd only be judged on how good of a person we are. Now are we not only judged on how good a person we are, but if we accept a specific set of beliefs or not.  It could plausibly be said that God doomed millions of people to hell by sharing his message that otherwise wouldn't go there.  
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #27 - October 19, 2012, 08:58 PM
    Quote from: AminRiaz on October 19, 2012, 08:54 PM
    Islam does not hold children to be morally responsible -...

    Riaz is riot .....  That is a fact .. So In Islam intelligent Muslims Must make sure not to play with children and their faith.. For e.g. MGM and FGM





    Leave the children alone.. Let them cut themselves when they grow up..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #28 - October 19, 2012, 09:05 PM
    Quote
    Those are weasel word exceptions - '


    I don't get this - I am stating Muslim beliefs as accurately as I can - you claimed wrong - I set the record straight. I don't get its derision with "weasel word" and etc - that just seems meaningless.

    Quote
    but they don't mitigate even in the slightest the moral horror of considering people worthy of eternal pain and torture simply for 'disbelief'


    I don't consider it "moral-horror" - however I also belief that God is all forgiving - and it is up to him to forgive. However what forms life takes after that is . . . I don't know.

    - - -

    Also - Muslims consider God - to be the creator of Universe - and as an all powerful being - he simply has the authority to do what he likes.  
  • polytheism / monotheism
     Reply #29 - October 19, 2012, 09:10 PM
    Quote
    Seems like a double edged sword.  If God never would have shared his message we'd only be judged on how good of a person we are. Now are we not only judged on how good a person we are, but if we accept a specific set of beliefs or not.  It could plausibly be said that God doomed millions of people to hell by sharing his message that otherwise wouldn't go there. 



    But God has always - sent his message. Else maybe whole life wouldn't exist - be of different forms and under different laws. I don't really see the logic of your repose - when you claim there is a
    Quote
    double edged sword

    .



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