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 Topic: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims

 (Read 15617 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     OP - October 24, 2012, 11:53 PM

    Read the full blog post ->  http://heresyclub.com/2012/10/in-solidarity-with-the-ex-muslims/

    Quote
    In an act of immense solidarity, and an open armed welcome into the community of non-believers, the LSESU Atheist society has renamed itself the Atheist Secularists Humanists & Ex-Muslims Society (ASHES).



    Much kudos to Sundas and the many other awesome London ex-Muslims. Afro
    It's great to see ex-Muslims on university campuses supporting each other. Afro

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #1 - October 24, 2012, 11:56 PM

    Fantastic work folks. Keep it up.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #2 - October 25, 2012, 12:13 AM

    Yeah universities and high schools are where the support is needed most. It is the teenagers and early twenty somethings that are still financially dependent on their parents and thus forced to remain silent about their personal beliefs.

     

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #3 - October 25, 2012, 01:16 AM


    Sundas .............

    huh !.. I thought she visits/writes/reads  CEMB... doesn't she??


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofR2pHvJyNA

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #4 - October 25, 2012, 03:27 AM

    Read the full blog post ->  http://heresyclub.com/2012/10/in-solidarity-with-the-ex-muslims/


    Much kudos to Sundas and the many other awesome London ex-Muslims. Afro
    It's great to see ex-Muslims on university campuses supporting each other. Afro


    This is so awesome!!!

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #5 - October 25, 2012, 04:17 AM

    Great news  Afro Che e fantastico.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #6 - October 25, 2012, 05:27 AM

    Quote

    well .. yes.  It is awesome!... fantastico....

     when she enters in to Land of Pure.. the life could be in trouble.   But what is there in life without troubles., She mentioned LSE,  I was under the wrong impression it is Lahore School of Economics But I now realize it is London School Economics .. Still she is a brave lady..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #7 - October 26, 2012, 12:31 AM

    huh !.. I thought she visits/writes/reads  CEMB... doesn't she??

    I'll embed the video you hyperlinked coz it's awesome!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CmSrLKwZE4

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #8 - October 26, 2012, 01:20 AM

    She does do a good speech. Smiley

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #9 - October 26, 2012, 07:31 PM

    Impressive, I hope this creates a domino effect. I'm getting kind of fed up with Muslim apologists and people doing dawah, while ex-Muslims have to hide. I don't know how true this is but, it seems to me that because ex-Muslims have to go in hiding. Muslims use that to say, "Hey look at how legit we are, no one leaves Islam once you join you are so satisfied you never want to leave." Which is mis-leading to new converts who never have a chance to hear from people who left.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #10 - October 26, 2012, 09:14 PM


    The University just ordered them not to change their name to include ex-Muslims

    ++++++

    Sundas, who’s at the London School of Economics and a member of its atheist group, just posted about them requesting an official name change. Rather than just ‘atheist, secularist and humanist’, its members voted to call themselves the Atheist, Secularist, Humanist and Ex-Muslim Society. (It’s overinflated, agreed, but it does spell ‘ASHES’.)

    Her post quotes an official statement outlining their reasons for this. To summarise:

    The group recognises ex-Muslims face specific challenges and threats, which former members of other faiths by and large don’t, and wants to draw attention to this whilst providing support.
    A large proportion of members, estimated at one fifth, are ex-Muslims, and it’s felt the group name should reflect this.
    The society wants to be as visible as possible to ex-Muslims who aren’t members already.
    At the same time, not all ex-Muslims wish to label themselves ‘atheists’, as that term can bear additional negative baggage, and a purely ex-Muslim society would be unlikely, at least initially, to have stable membership levels.
    One of Sundas’ own additional points is that ex-Muslims face erasure from public consciousness and in the media – so, although there’s no reason ‘atheist, secularist and humanist’ couldn’t include ex-Muslims (indeed it clearly does), explicit use of that term helps create visibility.

    Reasonable stuff, one might have thought. And yet – ironically, given that last point – LSE’s student union have just denied the group’s request for the new name. The message they were sent, posted on the society’s Facebook page, reads as follows (emphasis mine):

    The Activities Committee have decided not to grant the name change that you have requested.

    We decided not to grant the name change because given the email that you sent us as why you would like to change the name, we feel that by adding ‘ex-Muslim’ to the society name it will no longer become a safe space for ex-Muslims; in the sense that it may be an indication as to where ex-Muslims can affiliate to. For this reason would you please consider replacing the ‘ex-Muslim’ part of the proposed name change to either ‘Atheist, Secularist, Humanist and ex-religious’ or ‘Atheist, Secularist, Humanist and ex-religion. This will be in order provide the safe space for all students who join your society and potentially increase your society membership.

    Please remember as far as anything to do with LSE and LSESU then the name will stay as ‘Atheist, Secularist and Humanist Society.’

    ‘It will no longer become a safe space for ex-Muslims [because] it may be an indication as to where ex-Muslims can affiliate’. What does that even mean?

    Of course the name was meant to show ex-Muslims can join the group. Is LSE SU against that? And how would it make the society less safe for them? Are ex-Muslims endangered by joining student bodies which acknowledge their existence? If they are, surely that’s still up to them?

    It’s hard to say what’s worse about this SU: their gutlessness or their grammar. Remember, they’re the ones who’ve made it a campus crime to be mean about the Qur’an, and who accused this same society of ‘racism and discrimination’ when they shared cartoons from Jesus and Mo on their Facebook page, taking disciplinary measures which have only just – breathe out – been written off.

    When I ran an atheist student group, I was lucky enough not to be faced with any of this; Oxford’s societies are, by convention, independent from its student union. If I was the LSE society, I’d have disaffiliated months ago.

    http://heresyclub.com/2012/10/at-lse-you-cant-call-yourself-an-ex-muslim-group/


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #11 - October 26, 2012, 10:03 PM

    Stopping a name change in the name of safety (whether for the university or for SU members) may not be Spartan in nature, but it might be pragmatic. I'm torn on the issue, I understand fully that this might unleash the torrent of fury-we never know what will unleash the torrent, it's very unpredictable-and unnecessary backleash. On the other hand can you really let the fear of it dictate your actions? Like I said, don't like the move much, but I understand it, and it's hard to say I wouldn't make a similar decision.

    I don't blame the university for this move-I blame society at large for treating Muslims as a large group of wild dogs that need to be handled with kid gloves rather than realising that a few vocal trouble makers with some nutty herpderp supporters pretty much have our balls in a vice-at least when it comes to issues regarding blasphemy, sacrilege and free speach.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #12 - October 26, 2012, 10:54 PM

    ‘It will no longer become a safe space for ex-Muslims [because] it may be an indication as to where ex-Muslims can affiliate’. What does that even mean?


    Putative translation: 'You can be a member of an athiest soc, but don't mention that you used to be Muslim because it makes the beardos cry. They burn shit down, you know.'

    Stopping a name change in the name of safety (whether for the university or for SU members) may not be Spartan in nature, but it might be pragmatic. I'm torn on the issue, I understand fully that this might unleash the torrent of fury-we never know what will unleash the torrent, it's very unpredictable-and unnecessary backleash. On the other hand can you really let the fear of it dictate your actions? Like I said, don't like the move much, but I understand it, and it's hard to say I wouldn't make a similar decision.

    I don't blame the university for this move-I blame society at large for treating Muslims as a large group of wild dogs that need to be handled with kid gloves rather than realising that a few vocal trouble makers with some nutty herpderp supporters pretty much have our balls in a vice-at least when it comes to issues regarding blasphemy, sacrilege and free speach.


    Understandable, perhaps, but such gutlessness is inexcusable; caving in to blackmailers once is to commit to caving in in perpetuity. Better to expose them to as much sunlight as possible, and if that fails, to meet like with like. The SU is clearly in thrall to some imaginary fear; how do we prove it baseless?
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #13 - October 26, 2012, 10:57 PM

    I think of all reasons to reject the name change, this one is a bit dumb. They need to grow a pair, seriously.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #14 - October 26, 2012, 10:59 PM


    Its weird. Lets leave aside the idea that in all seriousness, the ex-Muslim society probably wouldn't be targeted.

    What LSE are saying is that they believe some Muslims are incapable of not reacting violently to what they would deem to be a 'provocation'

    But at the same time they would call you an 'Islamophobe' if you said that as a criticism of Islam.

    What a muddle people have got themselves in.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #15 - October 26, 2012, 11:15 PM

    It's unfortunate that they couldn't get the name changed but I'm sure they can still advertise that they have ex muslim members.

    Here's a better name for them " The Atheist, Naturalist, Skeptic, Humanist, Secularist, ex christian, ex jew, ex muslim society. "

    Seriously though just call themselves " Secular Skeptics" And just mention on their page or advertisements that they have ex muslim members.

    Group name should be short and sweet.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #16 - October 26, 2012, 11:28 PM

    Edit: bad idea is bad.
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #17 - October 27, 2012, 04:23 AM

    Putative translation: 'You can be a member of an athiest soc, but don't mention that you used to be Muslim because it makes the beardos cry. They burn shit down, you know.'

    Understandable, perhaps, but such gutlessness is inexcusable; caving in to blackmailers once is to commit to caving in in perpetuity. Better to expose them to as much sunlight as possible, and if that fails, to meet like with like. The SU is clearly in thrall to some imaginary fear; how do we prove it baseless?


    Unfortunately businesses make decisions on risk-reward (usually short-sighted) rather than on principle.

    And like Billy said, this is such a madly two-faced and bigoted line many institutions have now taken: ''we want to avoid offending Muslim sensitivities because (1) We are 'tolerant' (2) Muslims have no self-control and will violently attack us''

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #18 - October 27, 2012, 05:43 AM

    Its weird. Lets leave aside the idea that in all seriousness, the ex-Muslim society probably wouldn't be targeted.

    What LSE are saying is that they believe some Muslims are incapable of not reacting violently to what they would deem to be a 'provocation'

    But at the same time they would call you an 'Islamophobe' if you said that as a criticism of Islam.

    What a muddle people have got themselves in.

    Someone seriously needs to get in their faces and ask them to explain this.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #19 - October 28, 2012, 02:06 PM

    Oh bah, at least they tried. I hate how fear always wins. Yet Muslims Societies can continue to do as much dawah as they want with all their lies and mis-information. 

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #20 - October 28, 2012, 02:24 PM

    ^

    Well they do lie alot in their dawah. Every day I pass by a muslim dawah booth and the slogan is " Millions read it.Unchanged for 1400 years ago." 

    And literally two meters away from them is this crackpot Christian guy on a microphone telling/yelling to all the passerby they will go to hell if they don't accept jesus.

    And i walk by them thinking this


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #21 - October 29, 2012, 12:36 AM

    I will never understand how “It has never changed” is supposed to be something good. It just means that nobody ever improved it, how is that great ?
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #22 - October 29, 2012, 12:46 AM

    Yeah, apparently some people are inclined towards valuing what is called "continuity" i.e. some people (who are probably culturally primed to value the past over the present or the future) see it as a positive that the Quran has (ALLEGEDLY) not changed. This is one of the reasons given for conversions into Islam (of women in particular) by this Cambridge study.

    I never got why something not changing is a "good" thing. It only means that it is stuck in time, outdated, outgrown, overstayed, unrefined, etc.

    I think in some ways though, the rapidly shifting, fad-based culture of today's popular media, fashion etc., makes people mistakenly think that tradition/continuity is what they need. In fact there are lots of other ways to have that sense of connection to something timeless; religion (and other dogmas like nationalism) is only the most crudest and oppressive form. Better ways are: connect with the natural world, with fellow humans, and engage with the world in artistic and creative ways.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #23 - October 29, 2012, 12:51 AM

    Quote
    This is one of the reasons given for conversions into Islam (of women in particular) by this Cambridge study.


    Oh boy. They have their dawah-ganda organised on a high level. They really have.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #24 - October 29, 2012, 12:57 AM


    allat

    I can personally understand the appeal of tradition. I can understand the appeal of conservatism. Of the value of certain things that speak of continuity. I think its part of human nature. However I just think they are hitching their dawah-ganda to that impulse to be honest.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #25 - October 29, 2012, 01:02 AM

    Yeah I see the value of tradition too. I just don't see it as being unquestionable, though. Traditions that are adaptable are better. Religion is a form of tradition that does not want to change, it'll kill but won't change (nationalism tends to be next dogma like that - arguably, nationalism is a secular form of religion). By nationalism I mean things like white-nationalism, fascism, nazism, the nationalism show by various ethnic and cultural groups around the world, etc., not just having a level of pride in one's country, but feeling like any criticism of it is an affront.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #26 - October 29, 2012, 01:26 AM


    Of course - nothing should be unquestionable. That is the problem with Islam. In it, tradition becomes a pathology. Questioning becomes a kind of Satanic disruption, and an evil. So it isn't really tradition at all.

    For me, tradition suggests formation of ways - which meant that it was formed and shaped itself in the past - it came out of something - it had some value and hence was useful in some way. Conservatism sees this formation as gradual and cautious.

    So even in conservatism there is an inherent acceptance of change. This impulse believes change should be contingent and slow and subject to testing.

    What Islam does is the opposite of that. It freezes things and seeks to drag everything back to its year zero. Its an entirely different thing than conservatism or tradition. What is the word for it?


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #27 - October 29, 2012, 01:30 AM

    I'd say that it is a radical conservatism that Islam (like orthodox judaism or literalist christianity) proposes. Or at least MOST versions of Islam either promote or idealize the radical conservatism of Islamic scripture/oral traditions. By radical conservatism, I mean that all these types of ideologies (most brands of Islam, orthodox judaism, literalist christianity etc.) are all throwbacks to what they see as having been BETTER in the past (i.e. all these types of religions value what happened in the past MORE than what is happening now and what could happen in the future). The kind of cautious change model you're talking about is a more moderate form of conservatism, which allows for some change but does not trust change at first or for a long time. Radical conservatism (orthodox religions) actively works against change.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #28 - October 29, 2012, 01:36 AM

    The ideal world for conservatism would be: a world that did not NEED to or HAVE to change (hence that slow, cautious acceptance of change, if accepted at all). In Islam, conservatism reaches its peaks as Islam is constructed as that ideal, unchanging thing. That is why most Muslims are so conservative when it comes to just about every issue, for better and for worse. Islam is a radically conservative tradition. Not all traditions are as radically conservative, but they are all oriented towards this thinking that there could or should exist situations or things that do not ever have to change.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: University student union atheist society name changes to include ex-Muslims
     Reply #29 - October 29, 2012, 01:47 AM


    I'd go along with that analysis broadly speaking allat.

    I'm just interested in this aspect of radical conservatism.

    That there is a fixed ideal towards which society and individuals should orientate themselves.

    And that this is actually a pathology - the primacy of a divine judgment and punishment for questioning this - makes it incredibly difficult to even start to reform.

    This is such a force multiplier it goes beyond conservatism. Its more than being ultra-conservative. Its extreme in as much as it doesn't even allow for the slightest acknowledgment of progression in any sphere.

    You know allat, at some point the liberal secular consensus has become, or will become this century, the tradition to be defended - and those defenders will be conserving these ideas and their institutional, social continuation.

    That's what I mean by liberal conservatism.





    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

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