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 Topic: Atheist Census

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  • Atheist Census
     Reply #30 - December 18, 2012, 04:12 AM
    ^

    But after all the mullahs and ayatollahs have croaked wouldn't that automatically end the mullahocracy Huh?
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #31 - December 18, 2012, 04:27 AM
    But the laws and system remain and there'll always be enough religious people to continue the system, which is totalitarian and impossible to change from within. For instance, there's a council of mullahs (the "Guardian council" I think they're called) who must approve of any potential presidential candidate and anyone who's not sufficiently Islamic can't run in an election; this same council must approve of all legislation and guess what happens to insufficiently Islamic bills? Or bills intended to reduce the power of the mullahs?

    IIRC, there was a Pew poll that showed only 14% of Iranians support shari'ah but it's still there despite it's widespread unpopularity. I don't recall that poll being specific to young people but 14% is all that is needed to be tomorrow's mullahs and "guardians" of the mullahocracy.
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #32 - December 18, 2012, 08:41 AM
    Just saw the gender pie chart for the UK, very depressing, 3/4's are all men.

    So many things working against women I guess. Still depressing though, there should be more, so much more.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #33 - December 18, 2012, 08:48 AM
    Or altrnatively, some female atheists in the UK don't give a shit about some online quiz.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #34 - December 18, 2012, 08:50 AM
    Or alternatively, as other studies say, women are still more religious than men, and this is reflected in this small sample too.

    It's hardly like I was stupid enough to believe those stats represented all of the atheists in the UK. 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #35 - December 18, 2012, 08:53 AM
    Yeah but three times as many? I haven't read the studies, but it doesn't seem likely that the sample is an accurate reflection.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #36 - December 18, 2012, 08:56 AM
    I think the large gender difference has to do with a combination of women in general being:
    -more into religion due to community/family expectations
    -not identifying as atheistic even if they are irreligious
    -not being part of online atheist groups as much
    -not caring too much about filling out an online survey about it

    Let's face it, online (and often offline) atheist communities are generally sausagefests...
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #37 - December 18, 2012, 09:04 AM
    Yea probably not, otherwise it would be seriously depressing.

    I'm also way too lazy right now to try to search out the stats for why women are apparently more religious, to see if the gap is just as wide. 
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #38 - December 18, 2012, 09:09 AM
    Quote from: allat on December 18, 2012, 08:56 AM
    I think the large gender difference has to do with a combination of women in general being:
    -more into religion due to community/family expectations
    -not identifying as atheistic even if they are irreligious
    -not being part of online atheist groups as much
    -not caring too much about filling out an online survey about it

    Let's face it, online (and often offline) atheist communities are generally sausagefests...


    Yea for some reason they don't break down their 3/4's men over 1/4 women section. It's just rounded up into those 2 sections.

    also, for the last point, I always thought that women being primary carers or whatever else they have to do as their role as women, prevented them from accessing online forums as much which is why there was such a split.  It's always pissed me off no end and on top of that to be told constantly that having a fanny makes one more religious lol.  Doesn't seem right.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #39 - December 18, 2012, 09:17 AM
    Quote from: BerberElla on December 18, 2012, 09:09 AM
    also, for the last point, I always thought that women being primary carers or whatever else they have to do as their role as women, prevented them from accessing online forums as much which is why there was such a split.  It's always pissed me off no end and on top of that to be told constantly that having a fanny makes one more religious lol.  Doesn't seem right.


    Yeah.. I think women just may have less time to engage in abstract flights of philosophical musings, given that many of them are busy raising children and working and cooking and taking care of the household etc. Not all, but a majority of them, esp. those with families, are just not privileged with the free time it requires to be an (online) atheist activist. I don't think as many are religious as the stereotype goes... they just have different priorities. TBH, I agree... this is the only place I'm involved in, whereas I get invites to join umpteen different atheist groups on facebook, and other places; I just don't have the time or inclination to be that involved, and I'm not even the typical full time working + full time mom type.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #40 - December 18, 2012, 09:27 AM
    I'm the same, this is my one atheist hang out really.  Too busy to spare time, and when not too busy, too tired to give what time is left to anymore groups than this.

    You know though, sad to say but in a lecture on belief and superstition, to my mind, more of the girls stuck their hands up when asked if they believed in god or ghosts.  Not a massive divide but it was there.  Of course that was just one class, and there is that whole macho thing for men where they are conditioned to not show fear, so maybe her (lecturer) lumping it under ghosts or god changed the way people were prepared to respond.

    Well, either way, I just want to see a nice pie chart that shows this to be some sort of mistake; that women believe more than men.

    In my Islamic experience it was not that way around, men seemed more religious than women. 
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #41 - December 18, 2012, 09:33 AM
    IME, women tended to be more religious, because that is an established way to gain support, and women with less economic power over their lives tend to lean on communities and families for support more, hence they appear to be more religious as religion bonds communities in most parts of the world. Also, yeah women tend to get bullied or silenced when they're in the minority... e.g. I just put out this video, it's the 1st one on our channel specifically addressing how women are abused through shariah laws, and the 1st comment on there was some jackass complaining that the video was too women-focused. I mean, it's everywhere, including in online atheist communities... women tend to get shunned off to the sidelines or mocked for speaking their POV. And probably due to social conditioning of having to appear "feminine" most women don't stand up to it even online. The ones that do, immediately get branded "feminazis" as we've seen here and everywhere else numerous times. So, a lot of women just stay away from known sausagefests.

    I don't think there are reliable studies on how many women vs men are religious... the numbers would be too different based on region, economic class, religion, sect, etc. I don't think it would be the same for all women or all men, even if there was a survey somewhere.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #42 - December 18, 2012, 09:51 AM
    Quote from: allat on December 18, 2012, 09:33 AM
    IME, women tended to be more religious, because that is an established way to gain support, and women with less economic power over their lives tend to lean on communities and families for support more, hence they appear to be more religious as religion bonds communities in most parts of the world.


    Maybe it's because I'm from a Moroccan background, and as Naerys joked a while back, everyone knows we are witches and whores.  Not to mention Moroccan women being turned away from Mecca before out of fear of the naughty things or temptations we might be responsible for.

    Moroccan women just appeared less psychotically religious than their male counterparts.

    I could be wrong though, anecdotal evidence doesn't really count for much.

    Quote

    Also, yeah women tend to get bullied or silenced when they're in the minority... e.g. I just put out this video, it's the 1st one on our channel specifically addressing how women are abused through shariah laws, and the 1st comment on there was some jackass complaining that the video was too women-focused.


    Yea just saw that.   wacko

    Quote
    I mean, it's everywhere, including in online atheist communities... women tend to get shunned off to the sidelines or mocked for speaking their POV. And probably due to social conditioning of having to appear "feminine" most women don't stand up to it even online. The ones that do, immediately get branded "feminazis" as we've seen here and everywhere else numerous times. So, a lot of women just stay away from known sausagefests.


    This is sadly true, was only a few days ago that the demba felt the need to suggest everything I had just criticised him about stemmed from a place of hormones rather than reason.  Wasn't the first time, nor will it be the last.

    Quote

    I don't think there are reliable studies on how many women vs men are religious... the numbers would be too different based on region, economic class, religion, sect, etc. I don't think it would be the same for all women or all men, even if there was a survey somewhere.


    I know.  I read another study that suggested those studies that say women are more religious than men are based primarily on studies of Christian nations, whereas other studies that included Judaism and Islam, showed that cultural differences have an effect since it wasn't the same.

    Men appeared to be more religious than women, which is sort of how I felt too.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #43 - December 18, 2012, 10:01 AM
    Yeah I think that that difference between your Moroccan culture vs. my South Asian culture is an example of how different these things can be. I'm sure what you're saying is true... men are more religious in some places, and women are more in other places. Any generalizing study about some kind of "essential" gender difference in religiosity as a universal trait is most likely going to have some serious methodological problems and biases.

    As far as this census, and online atheist groups, it is an ongoing issue within that women's voices have often been silenced. Not in all places, of course, but in enough places, unfortunately. Many atheists seem to believe that since they "left" religion, all the conditioning and biases have been sucked out of them automatically and they don't need to introspect about issues of privilege anymore, and that they are now "objective".
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Atheist Census
     Reply #44 - December 18, 2012, 10:14 AM
    Quote from: BerberElla on December 18, 2012, 09:51 AM
    This is sadly true, was only a few days ago that the demba felt the need to suggest everything I had just criticised him about stemmed from a place of hormones rather than reason.  Wasn't the first time, nor will it be the last.


    Yeah I remember that. You may have missed the scintillating discussion in this thread too. These are exceptions in this forum, for now (unlike in the past when the sausage fest was more prevalent here, remember?)... many, maybe even most, other atheist groups and sites are saturated with chest thumping macho bully types like these.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #45 - December 18, 2012, 10:23 AM
    Quote from: allat on December 18, 2012, 10:01 AM
    Yeah I think that that difference between your Moroccan culture vs. my South Asian culture is an example of how different these things can be. I'm sure what you're saying is true... men are more religious in some places, and women are more in other places. Any generalizing study about some kind of "essential" gender difference in religiosity as a universal trait is most likely going to have some serious methodological problems and biases.


    Yep, still doesn't stop the huge headlines accompanying all the local studies that do try to suggest it is a universal female trait.

    Was just a bit disappointed to not see this census show that this is wrong.

    But......

    Quote

    As far as this census, and online atheist groups, it is an ongoing issue within that women's voices have often been silenced. Not in all places, of course, but in enough places, unfortunately. Many atheists seem to believe that since they "left" religion, all the conditioning and biases have been sucked out of them automatically and they don't need to introspect about issues of privilege anymore, and that they are now "objective".


    It is like you say, part and parcel of the larger problem of women being silenced and ridiculed, and still carrying the heavier burden of life.

    Sucks really.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #46 - December 18, 2012, 10:52 AM
    Quote from: allat on December 18, 2012, 10:14 AM
    Yeah I remember that. You may have missed the scintillating discussion in this thread too. These are exceptions in this forum, for now (unlike in the past when the sausage fest was more prevalent here, remember?)... many, maybe even most, other atheist groups and sites are saturated with chest thumping macho bully types like these.


    wow, I just read through that thread.  The likely members too.   015

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #47 - December 18, 2012, 10:53 AM


    When it came to practicing Islam (prayer, fasting, etc) I think the guys won but when it came to following the rules (not drinking, partying, etc) the girls took the cake. 

    Edit: I'm not even sure if the above makes sense, lol.
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #48 - December 18, 2012, 11:01 AM
    Quote from: BerberElla on December 18, 2012, 09:27 AM

    Well, either way, I just want to see a nice pie chart that shows this to be some sort of mistake; that women believe more than men.


    That would be great !

    Quote
    In my Islamic experience it was not that way around, men seemed more religious than women.  


    Not surprised ! hehe!


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #49 - December 18, 2012, 11:04 AM
    Quote from: Al-Alethia on December 18, 2012, 10:53 AM
    In my experience at Islamic school, it seemed as though the girls tended to be more "religious" than the boys in the sense that they didn't get up to as much haram shit. Eg: I didn't know any Muslim girls (at Islamic school) who drank alcohol but there were guys who did. But I don't think girls were more into religion, they just didn't break the rules as much. I suspect that that could be down to the fact that in most Muslim families, girls have less opportunity to stray, and the consequences (judging by the Arabs I went to school with) for un-Islamic behaviour tended to be more severe for girls. Eg: I know a girl whose parents got her engaged at 14 because she kissed a guy! Guess what happened to the guy? That's right: nothing.

    "Jew" was a common insult amongst the guys at school; in fact it was so pervasive that the word "Jew" still sounds accusatory and derogatory to me. They were very hostile to the kuffar in general and used to brag about praying and fasting, whilst simultaneously bragging about being gangsta and fingering random "sluts" wacko

    I was considered an oddity for giving a shit about salah and my best friend who was very religious was often mocked for it. Girls were less tolerant of hardcore religious people.

    When it came to practicing Islam (prayer, fasting, etc) I think the guys won but when it came to following the rules (not drinking, partying, etc) the girls took the cake.

    Edit: I'm not even sure if the above makes sense, lol.



    Don't worry, it makes sense.   Afro  I'd agree with you on that actually. 

    You know that's another thing I never experienced when i was growing up, this whole jew thing.  

    The first time I met a muslim who hated jews, it was when I met my ex husband.  I kid you not, after that I met many more.

    Kaffir was the hated word that got tossed around, not Jew.  Jew hating was new and bizarre since my dad doesn't hate jews, nor did anyone in my family, or the moroccans I went to school with.  (Mind you this has changed, even my younger sister hates jews now)

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #50 - December 18, 2012, 11:23 AM
    ^Most of the kids at my school were Lebanese and there were a few Palestinians too so maybe that's why the Jew-hatred was so pronounced. It was the other way round with me; Jew was thrown around a lot, as were the accompanying conspiracy theories (illuminati (sp?), Freemasons, etc were favourites) but kaffir was barely ever uttered.
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #51 - December 18, 2012, 11:38 AM
    Quote from: BerberElla on December 18, 2012, 08:41 AM
    Just saw the gender pie chart for the UK, very depressing, 3/4's are all men.

    So many things working against women I guess. Still depressing though, there should be more, so much more.


    Look at my own country. Apparently I'm the only female atheist there Tongue

    I think this website just can't (or hasn't yet) gained enough exposure to really matter.
    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #52 - December 18, 2012, 07:02 PM
    @Os: mwahahaha  bunny
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #53 - December 18, 2012, 07:06 PM
    Quote from: allat on December 18, 2012, 10:14 AM
    Yeah I remember that. You may have missed the scintillating discussion in this thread too. These are exceptions in this forum, for now (unlike in the past when the sausage fest was more prevalent here, remember?)... many, maybe even most, other atheist groups and sites are saturated with chest thumping macho bully types like these.


    - Links thread where point was raised and absolutely destroyed with not a single response seen thereafter.
    - Claims it's an example of the 'macho bully types'.

    Seems legit.
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #54 - December 18, 2012, 07:16 PM
    Quote from: allat on December 18, 2012, 10:01 AM

    As far as this census, and online atheist groups, it is an ongoing issue within that women's voices have often been silenced. Not in all places, of course, but in enough places, unfortunately. Many atheists seem to believe that since they "left" religion, all the conditioning and biases have been sucked out of them automatically and they don't need to introspect about issues of privilege anymore, and that they are now "objective".


    Quote from: allat on December 18, 2012, 09:17 AM
    Yeah.. I think women just may have less time to engage in abstract flights of philosophical musings, given that many of them are busy raising children and working and cooking and taking care of the household etc. Not all, but a majority of them, esp. those with families, are just not privileged with the free time it requires to be an (online) atheist activist. I don't think as many are religious as the stereotype goes... they just have different priorities. TBH, I agree... this is the only place I'm involved in, whereas I get invites to join umpteen different atheist groups on facebook, and other places; I just don't have the time or inclination to be that involved, and I'm not even the typical full time working + full time mom type.

    Quote from: allat on December 18, 2012, 09:33 AM
    IME, women tended to be more religious, because that is an established way to gain support, and women with less economic power over their lives tend to lean on communities and families for support more, hence they appear to be more religious as religion bonds communities in most parts of the world. Also, yeah women tend to get bullied or silenced when they're in the minority... e.g. I just put out this video, it's the 1st one on our channel specifically addressing how women are abused through shariah laws, and the 1st comment on there was some jackass complaining that the video was too women-focused. I mean, it's everywhere, including in online atheist communities... women tend to get shunned off to the sidelines or mocked for speaking their POV. And probably due to social conditioning of having to appear "feminine" most women don't stand up to it even online. The ones that do, immediately get branded "feminazis" as we've seen here and everywhere else numerous times. So, a lot of women just stay away from known sausagefests.


    Quote from: BerberElla on December 18, 2012, 10:23 AM
    But......

    It is like you say, part and parcel of the larger problem of women being silenced and ridiculed, and still carrying the heavier burden of life.

    Sucks really.


    Quote from: BerberElla on December 18, 2012, 09:09 AM
    also, for the last point, I always thought that women being primary carers or whatever else they have to do as their role as women, prevented them from accessing online forums as much which is why there was such a split. 



    Major white knights/feminazis detected. Oh those poor wimminz, how can they use the internet when all the oh so powerful men of the world are too busy enslaving them in their homes and spending the rest of their time browsing atheist sites. Someone please think of the Wimmin!

    What is this, I don't even....

  • Atheist Census
     Reply #55 - December 18, 2012, 07:20 PM
    Oh stop being a bloody idiot. Roll Eyes
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #56 - December 18, 2012, 07:23 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on December 18, 2012, 07:20 PM
    Oh stop being a bloody idiot. Roll Eyes


    OMG you called me 'bloody' and an 'idiot' solely because I'm a male and hence you equate these savage descriptions with all men. OMG this makes you a misandrist pig!





     Tongue


    (Only kidding!)  dance

    But jokes aside, I'm now patiently awaiting the feminazi/white knights arguments which didn't arrive in a thread linked above. Illogicality come at me bro!
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #57 - December 18, 2012, 07:29 PM
    Nobody is impressed by you or finds you funny. Are you aware of this?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #58 - December 18, 2012, 07:31 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on December 18, 2012, 07:29 PM
    Nobody is impressed by you or finds you funny. Are you aware of this?


    Of course I'm not trying to be funny. What makes you think this?
  • Atheist Census
     Reply #59 - December 18, 2012, 07:45 PM
    Y'know, as a bloke who's not particualrly metro or anything and has been kicking around since women wore beehives, I do find it odd how some blokes freak as soon as women start having an opinion. Frankly I think the term "feminazis", when applied to people who are basically just ordinary women, is bloody idiotic.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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