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Theme Changer

 Topic: Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London

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  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #90 - January 24, 2013, 08:30 PM

    As much as I don't like Islam I would say a few incidentd shouldn't be reason to paint everyone with the same brush. There have been people leaving pigs heads and pig blood at mosque sites, which is also a form of bullying.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #91 - January 24, 2013, 08:34 PM

    That's what I#m saying though, those people who leave pig's heads outside of mosques and bully muslims, what will they be charged with when caught?

    Not just bullying, they will be charged with racially motivated abuse/harassment, it won't just be "Oh, thugs, they exist everywhere so we are going to overlook the whys of doing it"

    The motivation for the crime matters, not just the crime. 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #92 - January 24, 2013, 08:36 PM

    Islam does not tolerate bullying people on the streets, smacking women for showing hair, harassing men for not having perfect beards. Can you provide me any Hadiths or Quranic verse's that promote this? Yes maybe there have been media reports about Muslims doing these kinda of things in Islamic country's but they are using Islam as an excuse also. No where in Islam it says act like this, don't always judge a religion on the actions of its people. After the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) passed away, the Muslims didn't act like this.

    I agree with you that young Pakistanis feel superior just because they are Muslim and are motivated to bully kaffirs due to hatred of their way of life. This is wrong. Its not even a Muslim country and even if it was you still have no right to do that.
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #93 - January 24, 2013, 08:42 PM

    That's ^^ why I said you couldn't find literal support for the religious moral police, or for these bullies.  I can't give you a hadith i won't even pretend I can.

    I'm simply saying that it's the kaffir thing, where that stems, the superiority etc.

    Not that you can find literal support.

    But I do think it's important to recognise that this isn't just about thugs, just like racial abuse, isn't just abuse.  The motivation matters.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #94 - January 24, 2013, 08:42 PM

    I was a Muslim for 30 years. I am glad that you don't believe that Islam promotes that sort of behavior. Since you are a believer in Islam, I would not want to persuade you that it does. If you could just help to persuade other muslims to understand Islam the way you have, you can help to make the world a better place for all of us.
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #95 - January 24, 2013, 08:46 PM

    Hi BritishMuslim, good to have you here Smiley

    Would you like to introduce yourself in this section?

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?board=2.0

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #96 - January 24, 2013, 09:04 PM

    I was a Muslim for 30 years. I am glad that you don't believe that Islam promotes that sort of behavior. Since you are a believer in Islam, I would not want to persuade you that it does. If you could just help to persuade other muslims to understand Islam the way you have, you can help to make the world a better place for all of us.


    I don't think I need to persuade other Muslims to understand Islam like this, the vast over-whelming majority do. I believe the radicalization of young Muslims is due to the oppressive policy's of the West in the Muslim world. Its their fault why we seeing a world wide awakening of Jihadi movements and radical Muslim party's coming to power in recent events. It works both ways.
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #97 - January 24, 2013, 09:04 PM

    Islam does not tolerate bullying people on the streets, smacking women for showing hair, harassing men for not having perfect beards. Can you provide me any Hadiths or Quranic verse's that promote this? Yes maybe there have been media reports about Muslims doing these kinda of things in Islamic country's but they are using Islam as an excuse also. No where in Islam it says act like this, don't always judge a religion on the actions of its people. After the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) passed away, the Muslims didn't act like this.

    I agree with you that young Pakistanis feel superior just because they are Muslim and are motivated to bully kaffirs due to hatred of their way of life. This is wrong. Its not even a Muslim country and even if it was you still have no right to do that.


    “Do not initiate the greeting of salaam to a Jew or Christian, and if you meet them in the street, push them to the narrowest part of the road."

    [ Narrated by Muslim, 2167, or see Hadith - Sahih Bukhari Book 25, Number 5389, Narrated AbuHurayrah ]

    When hadiths like that one exist its quite easy to see where goons like them get their inspiration. Now you can argue about context or interpretation and even go so far as saying that it should be Quran only but these hadiths have existed for hundreds of years and been used to discriminate against non muslims. Do a little exercise BritishMuslim... skim through the Quran and hadith and see how many things you can find where it speaks ill about Jews and Christians and other non-muslims then you will understand why this sort of thing happens.

    Welcome to the forum by the way.

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #98 - January 24, 2013, 09:07 PM

     mysmilie_977  Now there's one I haven't read before.

    Guess i was wrong, you can find a literal link.   whistling2

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #99 - January 24, 2013, 09:15 PM

    I remember reading that one in the masjid and the more I looked the more nasty hadiths I found and realized how they could be used and are used to oppress minorities in muslim countries and muslim dominated areas. Soon after that I became a "Quran only" muslim for a little while before I finally allowed my critical thinking and common sense to pull me out of this religion.

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #100 - January 24, 2013, 09:19 PM

    Sorry, where are my manners? I did not realize these were your first posts. Welcome to the forum. Please help yourself to a customary rabbit and parrot, my treat. parrot bunny When I was a Muslim, I would have made very similar arguments to the ones you are making now. I was always peaceful, always law abiding, and always felt that Islam was in sync with my own personal values. I have no problems with Muslims who practice Islam that way. I did have the opportunity to study Islam more in depth and in its original language. I began to notice that on a historical level, many of the “misconceptions” that people had about Islam, many of the things that I found personally repulsive and contrary to my internal moral compass, actually have strong precedence in orthodox Islamic sources. Most Muslims are not aware of these things, and had I not seen them in original Islamic texts in Arabic, I would have sworn that they were not a part of Islam. Ultimately, I came to the conclusion that Islam in its earlier and, I would argue, most authentic renditions, is not compatible with my own morals as a human being.   
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #101 - January 24, 2013, 09:35 PM

    Volume 8, Book 81, Number 764:
    Narrated Anas bin Malik:

    The Prophet beat a drunk with palm-leaf stalks and shoes. And Abu Bakr gave (such a sinner) forty lashes.


  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #102 - January 24, 2013, 09:36 PM

    Volume 8, Book 81, Number 765:
    Narrated 'Uqba bin Al-Harith:

    An-Nu'man or the son of An-Nu'man was brought to the Prophet on a charge of drunkenness. So the Prophet ordered all the men present in the house, to beat him. So all of them beat him, and I was also one of them who beat him with shoes.


  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #103 - January 24, 2013, 09:36 PM

    Volume 8, Book 81, Number 768:
    Narrated Abu Salama:

    Abu Huraira said, "A man who drank wine was brought to the Prophet. The Prophet said, 'Beat him!" Abu Huraira added, "So some of us beat him with our hands, and some with their shoes, and some with their garments (by twisting it) like a lash, and then when we finished, someone said to him, 'May Allah disgrace you!' On that the Prophet said, 'Do not say so, for you are helping Satan to overpower him.' "


  • Re: Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #104 - January 24, 2013, 09:40 PM

    “Do not initiate the greeting of salaam to a Jew or Christian, and if you meet them in the street, push them to the narrowest part of the road."

    [ Narrated by Muslim, 2167, or see Hadith - Sahih Bukhari Book 25, Number 5389, Narrated AbuHurayrah ]

    When hadiths like that one exist its quite easy to see where goons like them get their inspiration. Now you can argue about context or interpretation and even go so far as saying that it should be Quran only but these hadiths have existed for hundreds of years and been used to discriminate against non muslims. Do a little exercise BritishMuslim... skim through the Quran and hadith and see how many things you can find where it speaks ill about Jews and Christians and other non-muslims then you will understand why this sort of thing happens.

    Welcome to the forum by the way.


    Yep. Just to correct the citation, that Hadith is from Sahih Muslim Book 026, Hadith Number 5389:

    Sahih Muslim Book 026, Hadith Number 5389.
    Sahih Muslim Book 26. On Salutations and Greetings

    Chapter : Prohibition of saying first as-Salam-u-Alaikum to the people of the book, and how their salutations should be responded.

    Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #105 - January 24, 2013, 09:42 PM

    Volume 8, Book 81, Number 768:
    Narrated Abu Salama:

    Abu Huraira said, "A man who drank wine was brought to the Prophet. The Prophet said, 'Beat him!" Abu Huraira added, "So some of us beat him with our hands, and some with their shoes, and some with their garments (by twisting it) like a lash, and then when we finished, someone said to him, 'May Allah disgrace you!' On that the Prophet said, 'Do not say so, for you are helping Satan to overpower him.' "


    Yes this is also in the Hadiths. Link here.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #106 - January 24, 2013, 10:50 PM

    Interesting find there Pepe, never came across that one before. You as a non-Muslim will take it literately while me as a Muslim will not take it literally and try to find an explanation or a reason behind this. This Hadith is very miner, even if you do take it literally, it still no where near justify s the thugs bullying of drunken kaffirs. Now how many practicing Muslims do you see on the street whenever they see a kaffir they try pushing them towards the narrowest part of the road or of a cliff?  Cheesy There are many Hadith's what many Muslims come across and dont understand but later on find the answer and it doesn't seem so bad after find out the real reason or interpretation of it.

    Give you an example of a hadith I came across which  which I took literally without knowing the reasons behind it. In the Hadith it said that if a non-Muslim says Asalaam Alaykum (Peace be upon you) reply to him with just walaykum (upon you too). I never got this but a took it on with out questioning, without trying to find a reason for it. Many non-Muslims says Assalaam Alaykum to Muslims these days as a sign of respect for them. So every time a non-Muslim used to say Assalaam Alaykum to me I used to reply Walaykum....not "Walaykum Salaam" (Peace be upon you too).

    Years later out of curiosity I had asked my local Imam at a SALAFI Mosque why were we not allowed to respond to a kaffir's Salaam properly? He told me because back in the days, the Jew's and the enemy's of Muslims had spread a habit of saying As-Saam Alay Kum (May death be upon you) instead of As-Salaam Alay Kum (May Peace be upon you). Sounds similer dont  it? So thats why the Muslims was told when a non-Muslim greets you, just say Walykum "Upon you too".  The Imaam said those were in those times and we don't need to do this anymore, we can reply to non-Muslims Salaams as normal.

    91: Volume: 8, Book Number: 74, Hadith Number: 273
    Narrated 'Aisha:

    A group of Jews came to Allah's Apostle and said, "As-samu 'Alaika " (Death be on you), and I understood it and said to them, "Alaikum AsSamu wa-l-la'na (Death and curse be on you)." Allah's Apostle said, "Be calm! O 'Aisha, for Allah loves that one should be kind and lenient in all matters." I said. "O Allah's Apostle! Haven't you heard what they have said?" Allah's Apostle said, "I have (already) said (to them), 'Alaikum (upon you).' "

    There is a misconception among many Muslims who think that a Muslim cannot wish ‘Assalamu Alaykum’ to a Non-Muslim nor can he reply to the salutation. In Sahih Muslim in the "Kitab us Salaam" chapter 904 Hadith no. 5382 Allah’s Messenger (Pbuh) is reported to have said, "when the Jews offer you salutations, some of them say ‘Assam-Alaykum’ (death be on you). You should say (in response to it) ‘let it be upon you’ i.e. ‘Alaykum’.
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #107 - January 24, 2013, 10:56 PM

    Woooo it took me half an hour to reply to that and I already got 6 reply's before I replied lol. Take it easy on me guys, I know you all excited to see me but be realistic. How can one engage in a discussion/debate dialog with people bombarding him with knowing he is out numbered 10 to one and no way has the time to respond. This is what happened on another forum, first it was a couple of guys I could handle and when things started heating up I was mugged by 20 of them, honestly. I ended up leaving the forum because there was no point.
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #108 - January 24, 2013, 10:59 PM

    Welcome BritishMuslim. Smiley Forums can get like that... it's not just you, trust me Grin Just take your time and reply in your free time. If anyone gets abusive towards you, just hit the "Report to Moderator" button.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #109 - January 24, 2013, 11:05 PM

    Yeah bro...We are totally ok with civil discussion. I heard Bill Maher say once that debate is the civilized version of bombing people.  Cheesy I was in your shoes for a long time and I really do understand your point of view. My goal is not to force you to be like me (although I would encourage it because I do feel that I am correct, and I'd like for you to be correct too  Wink) I am more intersted in the sharing of ideas.Take your time, respond at your own leisure.
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #110 - January 24, 2013, 11:08 PM

    ...while me as a Muslim will not take it literally and try to find an explanation or a reason behind this.


    That sums it up really. I believe that words have meanings. While I do believe that allegory and analogy are of course linguistically allowed, if I want my words to be “sublime examples” and “clear explanations of everything,” I will be sure to make my meanings as clear and unambiguous as possible. Why say push them to the side of the road if I really mean be nice to them? 
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #111 - January 24, 2013, 11:46 PM

    BritishMuslim, mate I think most peple on here are pretty fair so you wont have a problem unless you start bashing on us then some of us may not play nice either. We are respectful to those who are respectful towards us.

    One slight problem though when you said "You as a non-Muslim will take it literately while me as a Muslim will not take it literally and try to find an explanation or a reason behind this." I'm not just a non-muslim I am a former muslim and a convert at that. I have spent my time as a muslim to get a better understanding of hadiths and verses of the Quran and came to the conclusion after many years that I just couldnt accept the excuses and the justifications anymore for the vile stuff. I couldnt excuse justifications for ignoring the vile things with "Allah will open your heart to the difficult verses" or "You may not like it but Allah knows best and in time you will understand".

    The hadith you mentioned about the greeting I already knew about and researched it myself years ago and read the same explaination. Thats perfectly fine so thats why I didnt bring up that hadith.

    In the end the proof is in the pudding isn't it? Look at the state of minorities in the muslim world. The institutionalized discrimination gets worse the more sharia based their law is. Now you might excuse it by saying that there are no real muslim countries today and we shouldnt blame Islam because of the actions of muslims but I say look deeper and see why things are the way they are. Look for where they get the feeling of superiority and justification for discrimination and it will lead you to many many verses in the Quran and Hadith.

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #112 - January 25, 2013, 12:54 AM

    LOL. Right stop right here now, no more guys.!! I will reply to these as soon as I can. Most likely tomorrow or on the weekend.  9-5 job 6 days a week. girlfriend/social commitments + family responsibility...busy guy as you can see.  Smiley Right now cant be bothered with replying to anything. Just racked one bed timer up, smoke it, play on my PS3 for abit then bed.!!!
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #113 - January 25, 2013, 01:03 AM

    Take your time no rush.

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #114 - January 25, 2013, 01:38 AM

    @ thread's topic:

    East London Mosque condemns homophobia, yet advertised four anti-gay speakers last month alone.

    More about that here...

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #115 - January 25, 2013, 05:53 PM

    Hello BritishMuslim.
    No where in Islam it says act like this, don't always judge a religion on the actions of its people.

    Now how many practicing Muslims do you see on the street whenever they see a kaffir they try pushing them towards the narrowest part of the road or of a cliff?  Cheesy

    I think you are contradicting yourself a little here Smiley.

    (You don't need to answer right away, but I'm writing this now because I may forget or not have the time later. Sorry if you get too many people that you want to respond at the same time, and not enough time. You don't have to answer me anyway Smiley).
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #116 - January 25, 2013, 10:02 PM

    BritishMuslim, the fact you are referring to non-Muslims as kaffirs shows that you have deep seated prejudice against non-Muslims. Many non-Muslims are believers, they just have different Prophets.

    Also, let me ask you few simple questions:
    1- Why there is no freedom of religion in Muslim countries?
    2- Why Muslims are the most intolerant?
    3- Why Muslims react violently to any percieved insult?

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Re: Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #117 - January 25, 2013, 10:16 PM

    I don't think I need to persuade other Muslims to understand Islam like this, the vast over-whelming majority do. I believe the radicalization of young Muslims is due to the oppressive policy's of the West in the Muslim world. Its their fault why we seeing a world wide awakening of Jihadi movements and radical Muslim party's coming to power in recent events. It works both ways.

    Your comment is utterly outrageous. If it weren't for the West, the Saudi kings would still be living in tents. It is the West which extracted the oil from the Saudi Sands. If the West is so oppressive, why millions of Muslims have migrated to the USA, Europe and Canada? Muslims are thriving in the West.

    Actually, it is Muslims who are oppressive. Muslims are mired in mutual slaughter (Shias and Sunnis killing each other) in Pakistan, Iraq, Iran and Syria.

    Why there is no freedom of religion in Muslim countries?

    Remember Saddam Hussein and Moumar Gadhafi? What about Bashar al-Assad?


    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #118 - January 26, 2013, 03:42 AM

    Ram what are you smoking? You think Saudi royals are loved by Muslims? Sunni and Shia alike come back from hajj with horror stories about the authorities. The fact that there is a friendship between USA and the traitorous Saudis irks most Muslims. It seems that the neo Salaf are the minority that glorify the Ahl Saud. Don't you know that USA keeps those dictators in power until it no longer serves them purpose? Hilary Clinton calls Hosni Mubarak her friend, until the revolution when she suddenly wasn't his buddy anymore..

     I don't think you're wrong on your observations but you've got some facts mixed up, and your generalising doesn't help.
    I mean, do you know how many Muslims condemned/apologised for the violence that happened, hanging their head in shame? It sucks that those rioting fools have taken over, but idiots are always the loudest.

    Quote
    BritishMuslim, the fact you are referring to non-Muslims as kaffirs shows that you have deep seated prejudice against non-Muslims. Many non-Muslims are believers, they just have different Prophets.


    True, but if you think about it, you are either a Christian or an unbeliever, a Jew or a gentile (and the hebrew word also has negative connotations). So it's kind of naive to think Muslims also don't have an Arabic word for unbeliever .
    Being a kafir in my eyes is awesome; a lifestyle choice and freedom, but to a Muslim it's wrong. Why does it bother you? (No disrespect to you btw, just genuinely wondering why it bothers you, it's like a Jew calling me a gentile, it's like, yeah I'm not a Jew, and?).

    @British Muslim, before Pepe said it, that saying about "fixing something with your hand, your tongue and then hating it with your heart" came to mind.
    You seem like a smart well mannered guy, I don't have beef with people like you.
    You can't deny that these guys believe they can justify their actions with Islamic sayings whether you knew them or not.

    Do you reckon that the problem with Islam is that they have no unity and each sect wants to reign supreme? Eg. I can't remember where I saw this, but there was a Shia group in London calling themselves "moderates" and then it was hijacked by Salafis that were yelling at the "moderates" calling them traitors and so on, and of course, it was all caught on camera, probably confusing the fuck out of everyone.
    Who do we listen to? This group wants to assimilate and they are bullied by their own fellow Muslims, and they both don't consider one another "real Muslims". They've had 1500 years to figure their shit out but I assure you, with the way things are, even in another 1500 years, things will be the same unless there is some revolutionary change.

    Here...I went to this concert a few years ago. In my interpretation, an injustice was like seeing someone get bullied, or stolen from etc. But I guess the keyword is interpretation
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0B0WcdgnRc

    Lyrics:
    Quote
    If you see an injustice, act on it
    If you cant do that then speak on it
    And if you can't do that then feel it in your heart
    It's the weakest form of faith but at least it's a start


    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Muslim Patrol harrasing white people in London
     Reply #119 - January 26, 2013, 07:28 PM

    I live in a small town in the Northwest called Burnley. I can tell you this is nothing new, youngsters here go around on weekend night "patrolling" the streets, standing outside pubs threatening the locals. This has nothing to do with Islam, little young thugs use Islam as an excuse to bully people.


    This has everything to do with fundamentalist Islam. Liberal muslims like you might be against it but unfortunately you are the minority when you look at Islam from a global perspective.  The video represents the ideology of mainstream Islam because if you asked the opinion of most people living in islamic countries like Pakistan they would not agree with you. 

    Instead of saying "this is not Islam" I think it would be better for moderate muslims such as you to officially separate themselves from the rest of the so called "ummah".

    That way we can effectively fight their bigotry.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
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