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 Topic: Ex muslim reporting in

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  • Ex muslim reporting in
     OP - February 01, 2013, 04:22 AM

    Whats up fellow murtads?

    Originally came across this forum many months ago, I'd say late 2011 or early 2012. Back then I was still a Muslim with many doubts trying to hold onto my faith and viewing the forum never helped Tongue I guess I kept coming back here as a lurker because I was curious to know what Ex-muslims were like and why they left Islam. So I finally decided to join up a few days ago after I left Islam in December 2012.

    I'm a 19 year old guy from the UK, brought up in a religious British Pakistani Sunni Muslim family (my family were never as religious back in the 20th century). My mum enrolled me in Madrassah at the age of 5 where I went every weekday, 2 hours a day for about 9 years. Most of my friends (apart from one) happen to be Muslims, many of them quite religious - jubba, kufi, beard and all that, with the religious garb especially apparent on Fridays. I've been seeing my friends less and less...actually I've hardly seen them in the past 5 months. It was only a few weeks ago when I met a good Muslimah friend of mine who is another extremely devout girl, and a few days ago when I met two of my closest friends whom I grew up with since a toddler, also fairly religious muslims although not fully practicing (as in not praying all their salaah, both smoke weed occasionally etc). While in their company I had this urge to tell them about my beliefs and why I couldn't believe in Islam anymore, but I couldn't because I knew the reaction wouldn't be pleasant and the news would spread like wildfire.

    As a young kid I was always trying to strive to become a better muslim, trying to please Allah courtesy of my upbringing and brainwashing in the madrassah. Especially in my early teens where I started praying 5 times a day and started planning to join hifz classes. This phase lasted for a few years. At the age of 16 I started researching Islam for myself and I loved watching videos on muslim converts. Eventually I stumbled across scientific/mathematical "miracles" in the Quran which I had never heard of before and I was blown away. At the time I finally realised what Allah meant when he said "I give signs to mankind, yet the disbelievers will still not believe" (something similar to that) , and thought to myself, those who read these "miracles" and still don't believe are incredibly arrogant/under the influence of shaitaan, or both - especially Atheists who worship science (which was just a backwards jab towards them) and deserve their punishment since no signs could possibly be more clearer than these. Obviously it was just Islamic propaganda by Youtube Dawah Merchants which managed to deceive me and many others alike. After that I felt even more guilty for missing Fajr Salaah, and committing sins such as maturbation, listening to music etc.

    Before that the concept of Atheism was alien to me until I was 15 when I found out that people who didn't believe in religion/god actually existed! I couldn't get my head around this but understood after a while why people may have such doubts but disagreed anyway as the universe couldn't possibly have existed without a creator. I tried to refute Atheists but ended up hating them instead since their arguments were so hard to refute grin12 However, despite all this I knew of the stories of Aisha, Saffiyah, Banu Quraiza, Sexual slavery, and Shariah punishments such as capital punishments for apostasy. I was always troubled by this dark side of Islam and tried to rationalise it, in the end I accepted the apologist arguments though I tended to avoid these topics anyway because they always left a bad taste in my mouth and deep down, I probably knew that no amount of sugarcoating would change the respective ahadith which were clear and precise. Whenever these topics were brought up, I would either try to change the topic or end up doing something else whistling2

    Apart from the crazy unethical ahadith, I loved reading the ahadith showing the merciful nature of Muhammad and his companions. I also loved reading ahadith pointing to the end of times, Dajjal, Gog and Magog, Isa's comeback, and his sidekick Al-Mahdi. But of course, the more ahadith I read, the more troubling ahadith I came across and this affected my faith big time. I didn't like the bad side and wasn't willing to accept the way certain ahadith pointed towards Muhammad acting like some sort of twisted psychopath so I decided any ahadith that contradicted the Quran should be discarded but after a while I knew that we couldn't pick and choose which Sahih ahadith to follow so I became a Quran Only muslim at 17. I considered Quran Only Islam the true form of Islam and Sunni/Shia Islam as corrupted the same way the Jews corrupted Judaism. But at this point I was a far more liberal person and demanded logical reasons instead of faith. Things such as punishing people in hell seemed barbaric to me. I also wanted to know why Allah forbade pork when the meat is perfectly ok to eat when cooked. This was just the tip of the iceberg and I twisted the Quran to mean all sorts of things to the point where I considered hell a metaphor for something else, pre-martial sex as fine, marrying an Atheist not only ok but preferable (since they weren't bound by dogmatic beliefs) and a whole load of other crap. I still identified as a Muslim...an agnostic muslim. Obviously I didn't go around literally telling people I was an "Agnostic Muslim". Anyways, in late 2012, the idea of God and an afterlife was too hard for me to believe in without some form of evidence. So I ditched the leap of faith that required me to identify as an agnostic muslim, and as of December 2012 I completely left Islam and am now an atheist.

    As for my family, my mum is a no-bullshitting devout muslimah although she doesn't know much about Islam besides the basics. Just mentioning relationships and sex is extremely taboo. Music is avoided. Whenever a song comes on TV, my mum rushes to change the channel and I can't help rolling my eyes and face-palming at the same time. She prays all her salaah as do my grandparents. And my aunty who wears the niqab and has 4 kids, 3 of them young girls who all wear hijab, the youngest being 3 years old. Not only that she plans on getting her daughters married off to religious orthodox muslim men when they hit late teens! wacko Yeah, my family has its fair share of nut-cases, my mum and aunty being the worst offenders. I also have 3 younger sisters who I really feel like helping and somehow getting to know what the life is like outside and without religion as they've had an extremely sheltered upbringing, thanks to my mum. I plan on coming out to my family about my apostasy later this year, or next year depending on how things go to plan since I hate leading a double life and pretending to relatives/friends simply for the sake of family honour. The outcome won't be good but I personally can't wait to leave and become fully independent.

    I could add a lot more but it's already too long as it is, also I'm not sure if I should be posting my story here or in the Bio section...
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #1 - February 01, 2013, 05:13 AM

    Hi sabby! Welcome, I loved reading your intro.

    How do you reckon your family will react when you come out?

    I too have a younger sis, and I can't bear seeing her forced into hijab, but can't exactly tell her anything -.-'

    Looking forward to your posts! parrot

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #2 - February 01, 2013, 05:41 AM

    Hey there Jila! Thanks for the compliments Smiley

    When I come out, my aunty probably wont talk to me again. My grandparents and mother will be extremely angry, disappointed, sad and whatnot, and the'll definitely try to "bring me back to the right path". When they find out that wont work my grandparents might also stop talking to me but I'm not too sure about my mum...she might disown me if I don't come back to Islam but I can't say for sure - after all I am her son. I've never asked anyone what they would do if their kids left Islam since thats not something you bring up in conversation with muslims, especially muslim family Tongue

    I doubt my uncles would stop talking talking to me, they're believers but hardly practice. At most they'll consider me misguided. My dad on the other hand is a secular man, but at the same time he's a stingy bastard. Never has been a family man, hardly ever did anything for my mum or his kids. We don't share much of a relationship - I don't see him much and hardly talk to him. I can't blame him for hating my mother (and vice versa) as they both got an arranged marriage and are the polar opposites of each other (yet they've been living together for 21 years!) but he should have at least done more for his kids. End of rant Tongue

    As for my sisters, yeah. I don't want them to get sucked into this twisted culture/religion that we have. Hopefully they go Uni one day, find haram non-muslim guys, and then break the news to the utter dismay of my family. But thats just a dream, I don't think they're brave enough to take the first step but I'll always remind them that I'm there to support them.

  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #3 - February 01, 2013, 07:06 AM

    I'd recommend what most people hear would say. Don't come out until you're fully independent and out of the house, things can take a very nasty turn if you're always in the company of your family. And I've heard bad stories of ex-Muslims being kept away from siblings and other relatives, in fear your free-thinking will spread  Roll Eyes I'd say tread very carefully.

    Also here is your welcome parrot  parrot
    If you're going to believe in a religion you better do it 100%, any doubts deep in your heart, you know that's your brain telling you something is wrong and more people should listen to that voice, instead of making up supernatural beings like jinn to blame for doubts.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #4 - February 01, 2013, 10:46 AM

    Hi Sabby! Thanks for joining up - its great to have you here  Smiley

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #5 - February 01, 2013, 01:26 PM

     parrot bunny welcome! Great intro!
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #6 - February 01, 2013, 02:46 PM

    Welcome Sabby, have a  parrot
    I second Crunchy's advice, wait until you're totally independent before announcing you're apostacy, in the meantime work towards developing a strong bond and relationship with your younger sisters, let them know that you're a good guy and that you will be there for them always.

    Women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness.
    ―Erica Jong
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #7 - February 01, 2013, 11:22 PM

    Hi!

    I recommend you to do the same thing as the others said. If you want to come out, wait until you'r independent.

    I have my own soul. My own spark of divine fire.
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #8 - February 02, 2013, 12:23 AM

    Thanks for the warm welcome everyone! dance

    And yeah, first I need to get a decent job before I plan anything else. I'm not sure yet if I'm going to go Uni this year or next year, and my mum and grandparents are extremely strict and overprotective for some reason even though I'm a mature 19 year old guy. Anyway, depending on when I start Uni I may come out in terms of my apostasy...it might make it easier for me to move out out of home and even then I have a good non-muslim friend who I think would be able to help me out if things don't go all according to plan. With that being said I think I might bottle it at the end, it really is hard to announce your apostasy if you're a muslim.

    @Shadow: Yeah I know. I'm sorry to hear the ordeal you're going through and I totally understand where you're coming from - Desi parents often can be twisted and mentally/physically abusive. far away hug
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #9 - February 02, 2013, 12:55 AM

    Welcome mate

    Your situation and story is basically identical to mine, I need to move out before I tell my own parents. If you want to tell your parents before moving out, test the waters first. Ask them a tester questions something which different sects don't agree on. Your pakistani, so I assume you must have celebrated mawlid. You could bring up how it is bidah and observe their reaction. I did this a year ago and was still muslim at the time ending up making half the family cry cousins and all. That prompted me to be careful revealing the whole religion is a sham. First of all play it safe, and soldier through it until you can support yourself, prepare for the worst.

    It good you care for your sisters well bieng, they will get the worse end of the stick in Islam and they will need that support from you.

    About desi parents , A trick I learnt a couple years ago, desi parent especailly mothers often like to attach your failures to themselves and guilt trip you because you obviously care for your mother it works. Remember this, your mother will get over it eventually. Don't be afraid to dissapoint her because alot of desi parents set high expectations which they need to realise are unrealistic. Make you emphasise you are your own man. Once your in the mindset that your not actually hurting her, that its all they built up themselves, you will feel a lot less burden. Then you can go about getting through to your mother and aunts because they will realise the emotional blackmail no longer works. My family don't use it on me anymore, rather I managed to flip it back on them if they try it  Smiley.
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #10 - February 02, 2013, 09:49 AM

    Thank you. Try to find out how they will respond to it. It won't be the same as coming out but maybe it will make it easier for you when you know what they will say and/or do when you tell the you are no longer a Muslim.

    I have my own soul. My own spark of divine fire.
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #11 - February 02, 2013, 10:34 AM

    I'd recommend what most people hear would say. Don't come out until you're fully independent and out of the house, things can take a very nasty turn if you're always in the company of your family. And I've heard bad stories of ex-Muslims being kept away from siblings and other relatives, in fear your free-thinking will spread  Roll Eyes I'd say tread very carefully.




    I agree with Crunchy Cds, I moved out of town before I even took off the hijab.  Its amazing how the "most peaceful religion" allows such hatred to exist just because you chose to denounce your faith. I started viewing following a religion as choosing people you would like to judge you because in reality they are the one's whose approval and praise you actually can measure.
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #12 - February 02, 2013, 02:19 PM

    Welcome Shabby  parrot

    Apart from the crazy unethical ahadith, I loved reading the ahadith showing the merciful nature of Muhammad and his companions.


    Which hadiths are those? I must have missed them...
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #13 - February 02, 2013, 02:37 PM

    Hi Shabby, great intro post - thanks for sharing. Congrats on thinking your way out of religion, and good on you for wanting to help free your younger siblings. As has been said above, tread carefully, but be brave. The primary consideration must always be your welfare, and that of your siblings. Waiting until you have a decent degree of independence (being at uni and living out of the house) is a good idea, as is having contingency plans and knowing that there are people to talk through difficult situations with. Joining the forum was a good move Smiley There are plenty of big hearted and knowledgeable folk here who can give you good advice and know exactly what you're going through as they've been there themselves.

    Take care of yourself, and welcome  Wink
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #14 - February 02, 2013, 03:27 PM

    Welcome to the forum Sabby!! Look forward to reading more posts from you. Lots of sensible posts from other people here, so I'll give you a cute pig instead  piggy

  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #15 - February 02, 2013, 03:56 PM

     signwelcome Sabby have some customary creatures parrot bunny
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #16 - February 02, 2013, 11:02 PM

    Welcome mate

    Your situation and story is basically identical to mine, I need to move out before I tell my own parents. If you want to tell your parents before moving out, test the waters first. Ask them a tester questions something which different sects don't agree on. Your pakistani, so I assume you must have celebrated mawlid. You could bring up how it is bidah and observe their reaction. I did this a year ago and was still muslim at the time ending up making half the family cry cousins and all. That prompted me to be careful revealing the whole religion is a sham. First of all play it safe, and soldier through it until you can support yourself, prepare for the worst.

    It good you care for your sisters well bieng, they will get the worse end of the stick in Islam and they will need that support from you.

    About desi parents , A trick I learnt a couple years ago, desi parent especailly mothers often like to attach your failures to themselves and guilt trip you because you obviously care for your mother it works. Remember this, your mother will get over it eventually. Don't be afraid to dissapoint her because alot of desi parents set high expectations which they need to realise are unrealistic. Make you emphasise you are your own man. Once your in the mindset that your not actually hurting her, that its all they built up themselves, you will feel a lot less burden. Then you can go about getting through to your mother and aunts because they will realise the emotional blackmail no longer works. My family don't use it on me anymore, rather I managed to flip it back on them if they try it  Smiley.


    Hey there e-raja.

    I read your introduction a few weeks when you posted it and I also quickly noticed how similar our stories were, in fact almost identical.

    My family is actually going towards more the more hardline Sunni approach. No one cares about Mawlid, rather many oppose it, especially my aunty, mum and grandparents, and my youngest sister. Not to mention there isn't much of a difference between my aunty and a salafi. She's a full time 'housewife' (she's actually a lazy bum who lives with my grandparents with her four kids), and a full time niqabi whenever she goes outside, does all the Islamic rituals and avoids everything 'unIslamic', and only ever socialises with her other Salafi-esque friends online. She barely leaves the house and her husband is another lazy bum who has a huge beard and lives on benefits. So yeah, my family aren't like the typical Barelwi types who you find in many Pakistani/Indian muslim families. Not only that, most of my friends happen to be South Asian muslims and are either strict orthodox Sunnis, or less religious but with little Barelwi influence. Honestly I get the impression that most British South Asian muslims are becoming more hardline Sunni.

    And yeah, I completely agree about the Desi parents thing, my mother does it all the time. I've had enough and will be moving out this year or next year even though my mum and grandparents are vehemently against it. But I dont care anymore. Just need to find the right time to come out, and if my family don't want anything to do with me after that, then I'll accept that and move on with life.
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #17 - February 02, 2013, 11:11 PM

    And thanks for the warm welcome everyone else. bunny parrot

    @Tonyt: I'm not sure, its been a while and it's not like I can remember the exact references from off the top of my head Tongue But I'm sure you could find some of those ahadith on Google/Youtube.

    Btw its Sabby, not Shabby Tongue

    And also for those saying I should test the waters, its not that easy...I think it would be a bit awkward to ask a muslim what they would do if their kids left Islam. Need to set it up somehow...
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #18 - February 02, 2013, 11:57 PM

    You don't have to ask about apostates to test a reaction. Ask them their reaction to shias, Ahmadiyya etc and decide how badly they react. My family found out I didn't follow hadiths and the whole thing about mawlid stemmed from this, so when they flipped at me, I found out that by their reaction they would not go out and kill me for apostating when I tell them, thats why I will move out. I want them to clear their thoughts without me being around. They eventually accepted my stance on hadiths and that I would not budge, so I know eventually they may accept my veiw on Islam as a whole. I hold a hope that my parents will keep contact with me but I'm prepared for the worst.
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #19 - February 03, 2013, 12:08 AM

    I hold a hope that my parents will keep contact with me but I'm prepared for the worst.


    That right there would just kill me. I feel like my parents (especially my mum) are the only people I have in life who really love me and care about me; I'm a sucker who can't live without them or with them hating me. I literally think it'd drive me to suicide. If you're anything like me (you're probably not), I pray to FSM for your sanity. I sincerely hope it all works out for you with your family and you still maintain a relationship with them. 
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #20 - February 03, 2013, 01:07 AM

    thanks al alethia. My hope stems from the fact that my family all these years have always known me as sincere and honest. They know from experience I'm not easily minipulated, so my leaving islam will lead to alarm bells for a lot of family members as they would be hard pressed to believe I have an ulterior motive. Been built up as the family geek and intellectual has set me up in a position where me revealing Islam as sham and explaining why will rock a lot of family members faith but I can not see any of my family hating me at all, I think they will all just fear and worry for me bieng duped by the devil Roll Eyes.
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #21 - February 03, 2013, 01:12 AM



    Good luck with your family  Afro
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #22 - February 03, 2013, 04:54 PM

    You don't have to ask about apostates to test a reaction. Ask them their reaction to shias, Ahmadiyya etc and decide how badly they react. My family found out I didn't follow hadiths and the whole thing about mawlid stemmed from this, so when they flipped at me, I found out that by their reaction they would not go out and kill me for apostating when I tell them, thats why I will move out. I want them to clear their thoughts without me being around. They eventually accepted my stance on hadiths and that I would not budge, so I know eventually they may accept my veiw on Islam as a whole. I hold a hope that my parents will keep contact with me but I'm prepared for the worst.


    According to my family, Ahmadis (or Qadianis as they're commonly referred to) are non-muslims and extreme deviants. My aunty sees Shia as non-muslim but no where near as bad as Ahmadis. Apart from that, no one has much knowledge on the differences of Shia, and no one really cares.

    Another thing is that my aunt enthusiastically told me that apostates receive death in an Islamic state when it almost came out that I was a Quran Only muslim Cheesy On the other hand my mum doesn't know much about Islam despite being a fully committed Muslimah. So it's quite hard to predict what will happen when coming out as an atheist...
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #23 - February 03, 2013, 06:37 PM

    I think it's funny that Shias and Ahemedis aren't considered Muslim, unless it's when showing off to non-Muslims how many Muslims in the world there are. Then suddenly they're counted in the general 'Muslim' category. I always found that so sad in Islam that you believe in the same prophet but you wouldn't be considered Muslim by the main Sunni sect.  Cry what about the whole brothers and sisters thing, and Islam uniting everyone.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #24 - February 03, 2013, 10:29 PM

    It is funny. Because all 3 have a set of stupid beliefs but the sect with majority of adherents will be quick to call everyone else kuffar.

    Sunnis will call out Shias for practicing Mutah and other crap such as cursing the Sahaba, yet having sex with female captives is perfectly fine! When you read shit like that in sahih ahadith, you wonder how bloody hypocritical Sunnis and Muslims in general can be. Mutah is a million times better than raping slaves, and the Sahaba deserve all the shit they get for being fucking savages.

    And don't even get me started on the hate Sunnis have towards Ahmadis! You'll be hard pressed to find something worse.
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #25 - February 03, 2013, 10:41 PM

    Welcome Sabby!
    Your story was almost like an exact progression of my life.
    Anyways, what are your opinions on those scientific miracles now?
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #26 - February 03, 2013, 10:47 PM

    When it comes to irrational hatred of others heres the ranking I have observed among sunni Muslims.
    Jews, Qadiani's, Shia, Hindus, Homosexuals, Atheist, Christians, Quranist, Buddhist, then any other belief system that doesn't agree.
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #27 - February 03, 2013, 10:52 PM

    In my circle it'd be Jews, Christians, homosexuals, Buddhists, atheists. Shi'a and other "deviant" Muslim groups aren't really hated as such, other than by a few people (one aunt ranks Shi'as worse than Jews). Other religious groups aren't really hated.
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #28 - February 03, 2013, 10:56 PM

    Welcome Sabby!
    Your story was almost like an exact progression of my life.
    Anyways, what are your opinions on those scientific miracles now?


    A bunch of vague verses, add a twist here, a mistranslation there, somehow fit in the findings of modern science and Ta Daa! Real Quranic Scientific Miracle baby!

    Basically just a bunch of bullshit. If a dawah merchant ever comes knocking on your door and he (yes it will always be a he - female dawah merchants don't really exist Roll Eyes ) starts blabbering on about Quranic scientific miracles, then just ask him why Muslims themselves, no scrap that, why Mo and the Sahaba never figured out these supposed miracles for themselves and as a result missed an opportunity to become pioneers of science in 7th century Arabia.

    @e-raja + Al-Alethia:

    Theres a much higher irrational hatred for Ahmadis and Hindus among many South Asian muslims. I also remember an instance involving an extremely devout friend of mine, British South Asian guy who wears the kufi almost everyday, never shaves his beard, wants a niqabi wife, basically does nothing haram. One day this dude was having a conversation with 2 other muslim guys, the topic of Shias came up. He said he hates Shias and that they're not muslim blah blah oblivious to the fact that one of the guys he was talking to was an Afghan Hazara Shia himself Cheesy

    Imagine if I brought up the topic of Ahmadis with him, he'd probably go nuts.
  • Sabby reporting in
     Reply #29 - February 03, 2013, 11:01 PM

    hahaha, and not even just that.
    why didn't God just make it clear; if He is All-knowing, He must have known that people would get confused in the future, so why not just make claims that would make more sense and not vague?
    Also, since most of the interpretations are more modern, why didn't He just make all the scholars from the 7th century until now have the same interpretations? It is no surprise that the modern interpretations of verses that lead to miracles are drastically different from the interpretations scholars had in the past. No surprise at all Smiley
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