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Theme Changer

 Topic: UnMosqued, The Movie.

 (Read 5084 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     OP - February 04, 2013, 07:54 PM

    a little food for thought on the demise of the American Masjid!

    http://www.unmosquedthemovie.com/film-unmosqued/

    I guess this is what happens when you stifle thought and criticism and marginalize women and children.  Or, to put it bluntly, "you reap what you sow, assholes"

    it's the chickens coming home to roost....err, or the other way around?  lol.  

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #1 - February 27, 2013, 11:23 PM

    Okay so since everyone is being mute on this topic, I will kick it off. 

    What was the driving factor (if any) that pushed all of you away from the Masjid?  Anyone care to start?  As a women, I know for me it was the utter frustration at he LACK of accommodations made to women and children.  Nothing made me more pissed than watching mothers with infant carriers and strollers having to fumble their way up a huge flight of stairs in order to get to the prayer space.  Having to watch elderly women do the same thing was down right infuriating.  And once they actually MADE it there, it was usually hot and overcrowded and positioned in a way where you had no chance to see the minbar and had to rely on the crappy audio system to work well enough to hear anything. 

    As a woman, I always felt like a second class citizen.  I was embarrassed to have non-Muslims visit the mosque and witness this Friday spectacle of "herding females" into these ridiculous spaces.


    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #2 - February 27, 2013, 11:45 PM

    ^ True, that.

    Plus, most mosques don't even have a place for women to pray.  Praying in congregation for women is discouraged, apparently -- according to some schools of thought in Islam.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #3 - February 27, 2013, 11:53 PM

    As for men, a lot of mosques don't have english-speaking imams, or the imams very south-asian culturally, which makes the youth feel like they don't belong there.  Although this has changed a lot in the last 10 years.

    Anyway, it has to be said that here in the UK in the cities where there are many mosques, the mosques are not being deserted by the youth. Far from it.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #4 - February 27, 2013, 11:57 PM

    The more I learn, the more I am realizing that being a Muslim in America is very different than being Muslim in the UK

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #5 - February 28, 2013, 12:06 AM

    I think the difference is that American Muslims are really proud of their Americaness due to going through schooling with saluting the flag and stuff. In the UK there is no unifying 'patriotic' thing that children all do, leading to much more isolationism into groups. I think even the Amish are affected by this cultural surrounds, and as long as left on their own are quite happy and proud to be Americans.
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #6 - February 28, 2013, 12:20 AM

    What was the driving factor (if any) that pushed all of you away from the Masjid?  Anyone care to start?  As a women, I know for me it was the utter frustration at he LACK of accommodations made to women and children.  Nothing made me more pissed than watching mothers with infant carriers and strollers having to fumble their way up a huge flight of stairs in order to get to the prayer space.  Having to watch elderly women do the same thing was down right infuriating.  And once they actually MADE it there, it was usually hot and overcrowded and positioned in a way where you had no chance to see the minbar and had to rely on the crappy audio system to work well enough to hear anything. 

    This is a spot-on description of my masjid in the states. Narrow, steep staircase, not much space or seating, completely closed off from the rest of the masjid with no view, not even a window, and a crappy audio system. Not to mention the washroom was small and cramped, not convenient at all for wudu, and almost always in disrepair.

    One thing I hated was how the women's area was the dumping ground for children. We all became babysitters just by virtue of being there, and I couldn't stand the constant noise of the children. Many times, men would bring their young boys with them and if they got out of hand, they would just send them upstairs even if their mother wasn't there! And it was extremely annoying when the men would stand at the bottom of the stairs and shout up to their wives when they needed to talk.

    At functions such as Eid or aqiqas, the men's accommodations always took priority over the women's. This included chairs, tables, dishes/silverware, even food. Several of the women would acknowledge that we always have to hope we get enough of the men's leftovers to feed everyone Roll Eyes

    Another thing, and probably the most pertinent to this thread, is that I never really felt like I belonged there as a Muslim, nor did I even feel welcome unless there was a gathering. The masjid was near my university and I lived out of town, and I decided once that I would like to pray fajr at the masjid on my way to class. There is a hadith that talks about the reward of praying fajr in congregation followed by remembering allah until the sun rises, and I felt with my busy student schedule it would give me much needed meditation time to feel closer to allah. So one morning I showed up for fajr only to find the door to the women's section locked, and I had to find someone to unlock it. Beyond that it was a nice enough morning. I technically prayed in congregation, but I was alone upstairs. Then I read Qur'an until I had to leave for my class. Felt good. Later that day I talked to my friend whose husband had been there for fajr, and he noticed my car in the parking lot. I learned I had been basically laughed at for being there. Silly woman, why would she want to be at the masjid for fajr? I didn't go back.

    Praying in congregation for women is discouraged, apparently -- according to some schools of thought in Islam.

    Yes, this is a widely held standard. While men get the most reward from praying in congregation at the masjid, it is the opposite for women. Women get the most reward from praying at home, where they "belong". There is a hadith about it that basically says, the closer to their private space the better: praying at home is better than in public, and praying in the bedroom is better than in the living room.

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #7 - February 28, 2013, 03:28 AM

    Three out of four mosques that I frequent have really large female sides, meshy type curtains and nice bathrooms. The exception is exactly what you guys mentioned: thin staircase that leads up to a shitty little woman's side. Friday was horrible..
    My family got kicked out of "our mosque" and my parents developed this idea that you don't need to go to mosque to be religious, so  I started going with friends on Fridays.

    Quote
    Several of the women would acknowledge that we always have to hope we get enough of the men's leftovers to feed everyone

    OMG! wow.

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #8 - February 28, 2013, 04:19 AM

    Hearing that makes me wonder how muslim women can tell western woman with a straight face, that islam not only provides women equal rights but puts them on a higher level of dignity.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #9 - February 28, 2013, 07:04 AM

    I think most important point was made by the guy in that clip about retaining second and third generations of immigrants. You see most Muslim majority countries are underdeveloped where its easy to follow centuries old traditions and believe in super natural due to lack of social justice and non existent discussion of personal liberties. Once you move to west, it is nearly impossible to justify treatment of women as second class species, irreconcilable contradictions with science and personal rights. It is bound to happen!

    M
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #10 - February 28, 2013, 08:08 AM

    @Crunchy
    Their honour is being protected and they are not burdened with having to go to mosque to pray. Friday prayers are compulsory for men but effectively discouraged for women so Allah was being nice to us by not forcing us to attend prayers. 
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #11 - February 28, 2013, 08:10 AM

    I just couldn't be bothered, and used the fact that I was a female to avoid it whenever my father tried to get me to go to taraweeh or jum'a. There are Hadith that state that there is more reward for a woman in praying at home rather than at the masjid.
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #12 - February 28, 2013, 02:32 PM

    Besides the issue of women being marginalized in the masjids, what are some of the other reasons you guys feel the American Mosque is failing as a whole?  I think it has to do a lot with the treatment of women, because I feel women are really the glue of religious communities, but other than that, what else?  Could it be perhaps that the first generation is refusing to recognize the reality and the true needs of the second generation?  I believe that is a huge part of it.  I think they really need to come to terms with the reality that all Muslims are not saints and they have to provide support for people going through a broad spectrum of situations in their lives.  They have to find a way to reconcile the fact that the second generation generally is not as "religious" as they want to believe that they are and I feel that it would behoove them to offer creative and supportive programs to help these younger folks maintain a sense of Muslim identity and not feel isolated as soon as that do something "haraam" like drink a drop of beer or stop wearing a hijab. 

    For me it seems to be an embraced member of the community , one has to either live 100% straight laced or at least jump through hoops to put on the appearance that they are.  It is as if there is no middle ground.  A think a reform movement would help a whole lot, but I really can't see that happening in Islam.  Can you?


    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #13 - February 28, 2013, 04:54 PM

    In my mosque, especially when major programs are going on, I do not even see an inch of space between women. The accomodations of food are nothing compared to the accomodations men receive. It's just horrible and horrendous.

    I feel so bad for muslim women sometimes, just generally. There are so many restrictions, so many potential, blocked pathways that could have enhanced the involvement and creativity in their lives. Most of them would claim that they have enough freedoms, but in my opinion, they are just unforunately brainwashed. They just can't see the nonsense. It's probably because it would seem impossible for a woman to begin to doubt Islam. Doubt would ruin their lives. They would have nowhere to go to, especially since they are recommended to never be financially independent.

    If only all societies could see the true beauty of a woman, a beauty that doesn't involve a man's continuous, physical lust.
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #14 - February 28, 2013, 06:08 PM

    Interesting topic!

    I think the fact that Islam is essentially irrelevant to western living is a huge part of the decline of the mosque.

     Gone are the days when people can rally behind a particular movement and find the energy and zeal that the mosque once provided. After 9/11, mosques are reluctant to become rallying zones for various international causes like Palestine and Kashmir and Kosovo of the 90s.

    The Salafis have essentially self-destructed themselves into extinction by finding fault with virtually anything and everything that anyone does or tries to do in a mosque. They have become so engulfed in their nit-picking and ostracizing that they have made themselves irrelevant.

     From the African American experience, the zeal of the civil rights era has virtually died out as the younger generation does not feel the need to distance itself from American culture.

    So ultimately, I think that the youth are a main reason that the mosque is in decline. The fact that the 5 daily prayers are boring and in all Arabic means that they do very little to inspire the next generation. The Muslim youth are dating, listening to music, and befriending the kuffar. Nothing but total isolation—an unattractive choice for all involved—can change that. Khutbahs of an abstract nature do not address the challenges that real Muslim kids face on a daily basis.  Trying to comb through and sanitize the outdated teachings of the qur’an and the hadith to make them sound more appealing to the Muslim youth is a problem that Imams across the country are facing. Those who are successful must be willing to engage in a deliberate art of deception and sugar coating that belies what Islam has taught for ages. They then face criticism from the conservative crew who know better and who always have dogma on their side.

    The unit of the family is another problem Islam faces. As women are marginalized and the youth are not engaged, the mosque finds itself left to be an institution of old men who are out of touch with western living. Until Islam address the needs of all elements of the Muslim family, its importance will continue to decline.
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #15 - February 28, 2013, 07:00 PM

    Besides the issue of women being marginalized in the masjids, what are some of the other reasons you guys feel the American Mosque is failing as a whole?


    Is it possible to de-link the exclusion of women from why the mosque fails in a society like America?

    That is such a basic thing. For a society like America which has been moving towards ever more inclusivity and integration on every level, it really does seem incredibly backwards to reserve a space where women cannot tread.

    I also have a feeling that problems emanate from that exclusion. Across the board.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #16 - February 28, 2013, 07:02 PM

    In the 50s through the early 80's there were very few mosques in Britain and Muslims weren't attending in mass either.

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #17 - February 28, 2013, 07:04 PM

    That's just because of a low population ^
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #18 - March 01, 2013, 10:08 AM

    I agree with HM (do I ever not?).
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #19 - March 01, 2013, 01:10 PM

    Nostalgia from Friday prayers in school:

    aaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMEEeeeeennnn

    And our convert Muslim head master who used to start prayer with us, and then in the middle of it randomly walks around to check who's talking Cheesy I don't think anyone told him you can't walk around while praying.

    I feel so bad for muslim women sometimes, just generally.



    I always tell my mum that they have not only banned us from haram, but they haven't given us halal options either.

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #20 - March 01, 2013, 02:25 PM

    ... I actually used to enjoy khutbas when I was younger, I felt like I was learning a lot and found them interesting; I still remember some gems ...


    When I was in my early teens, oh more than 20 years ago, none of us kids paid any attention to khutbas, mainly because they were said in a foreign language. Reading this thread just reminded me of an incident that bothered me intensely as a teenager.

    The khutba was about something that was in the local news. A father had been sent to prison for killing his daughter by slashing her throat, the reason he did this was because she had converted from Islam to Jehovah's Witness. It was a big story at the time in the community. So when I heard the Imam start to talk about it I concentrated so that I could understand. I was shocked to hear him say that the father was justified in killing his daughter because she changed her religion and left Islam, I couldn't believe that this guy was condoning murder. I looked at all the other teens in the back of the mosque. None were paying attention, which I guess is a good thing, it's different now though, teens are lapping up this kind of shit. Back then I thought that this imam must be misguided in his understanding of Islam, and that I should not pay attention to him. Now I know what Islam says about apostates, so it seems he was just explaining that to the poor deluded masses.
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #21 - March 01, 2013, 02:43 PM


    Damn =[

    Things like that make me think it's a good thing that khutbahs are watched...puts pressure on the khatib...

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #22 - March 01, 2013, 03:18 PM

    Nostalgia from Friday prayers in school:

    aaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMEEeeeeennnn

    And our convert Muslim head master who used to start prayer with us, and then in the middle of it randomly walks around to check who's talking Cheesy I don't think anyone told him you can't walk around while praying.


    ^ Cheesy walking around while praying; that’s hilarious.

  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #23 - March 01, 2013, 03:26 PM

     Cheesy Cheesy omg I actually have a funny story regarding laughing in Salah. So there was this really weird guy who came into the masjid one day…I mean a complete weirdo, even by Muslim standards. Anyway, we get to praying, and when we go down for the first sujood, like 20 dollars in pennies falls out of this guys pockets—loud as hell. So anyway, we came back up from the first sujood and as we’re sitting there, all of his pennies were rolling all over the floor. Then we went back down for the second sujood, and more pennies fell out, followed by a “thump” on top of them. When we stood back up, there was a DOGGY BISCUIT neatly packaged in a plastic sandwich bag sitting there on top of his huge pile of pennies. Even all the grown men started laughing and chuckling.  Cheesy
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #24 - March 01, 2013, 03:48 PM

    ^ Cheesy Cheesy
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #25 - March 01, 2013, 03:51 PM

    Thank Allah It's Jumma
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhi0pfikOrk

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #26 - March 01, 2013, 04:15 PM

    ^LOL @ Mohammed with the wudu; "Imagine if we couldn't defecate...Allah allows us to defecate" Cheesy

    That video actually got a lot of the issues with mosques. The women praying in a closet, the imam with the foreign accent trying to act hip (“hit me up on myspace” Cheesy), the bored youth, the fire and brimstone preaching, the announcement guy Cheesy , the shoe drama, the annoying guy trying to promote some cause.
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #27 - March 01, 2013, 04:19 PM

    Or Fitnabook.  Afro

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #28 - March 01, 2013, 04:29 PM

    or "Farcebook"

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • UnMosqued, The Movie.
     Reply #29 - March 01, 2013, 04:36 PM

    another quick thing I hated about our mosques was the ridiculous lack of forethought put into our events.  Eid events were a JOKE.  So thrown together last minute with no rhyme or reason.  1,000 misbehaved Arab kids + bounce house+ cotton candy machine= migraine.  There were so many cool, creative things done in the nearby Jewish community here.  Their holiday offerings wer like: going to horse farms, bonfires w/ s'mores, theme parties with costume contests, ice skating, roller skating, hiring magicians, face painters, etc.....

    the Muslim kids? eh, just throw them some crappy junk food, give em some balloon animals and let them run around in a over-crowded gym until they puke. 

    so disappointing.  we desperately lacked creativity in our community and it showed.  No wonder these Muslim kids ended up growing up with such little interest in the mosque and it's offerings.


    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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