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Theme Changer

 Topic: Women of the Wall

 (Read 3951 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Women of the Wall
     OP - February 12, 2013, 10:40 PM
    Here's a group of women whom I greatly admire.  They are called "Women of the Wall" and they are Jewish women fighting for the ability to pray as they see fit, at the Western Wall in Jerusalem.  Hearing their struggle I was reminded of how Muslim women in masjid's around the world are fighting for fair access to worship spaces and the ability to pray with the same rights as men.  I find it fortunate for Muslim women that at least in Makkah, they are afforded the same access as men are to the Holy site...(even though they may get sexually harassed whilst trying to get close to the holy spots). 

    I wish these women all the luck in the world, in their battle against Patriarchal abuses within their faith.  http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/02/women_at_the_western_wall_they_should_be_allowed_to_pray_the_way_they_want.html
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #1 - February 12, 2013, 10:43 PM
    Quote from: tabularasa on February 12, 2013, 10:40 PM
    I find it fortunate for Muslim women that at least in Makkah, they are afforded the same access as men are to the Holy site...(even though they may get sexually harassed whilst trying to get close to the holy spots). 


    That is only true in peak times, and by necessity, not deliberation.
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #2 - February 12, 2013, 10:44 PM
    True, true. 
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #3 - February 12, 2013, 11:13 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on February 12, 2013, 10:43 PM
    That is only true in peak times, and by necessity, not deliberation.

    Think again. The majority of stories I heard from women who attended hajj or umrah involved seemingly deliberate sexual harassment, the most memorable being of my friend who had to make the tawaf with someone's erection pressed against her ass the entire time. It was crowded, of course, as there would be no other way he could have had the opportunity to be so close behind her.

    But it seems public sexual harassment is something to be expected in that culture where women are rarely around in public, and the holy site is not immune. There were a handful of times when I would be walking through a semi-crowded market in Kuwait and get my ass or boobs groped by a man in passing. And I was a very modestly dressed Muslim woman, not one of those fashionable Kuwaiti gals.

    It is a dreadful feeling to see a crowd of Arab men in a market and realize you must walk through them, or even nearby. My Muslim friends cited that as one of the reasons they were fine with the Islamic standard that women remain in the home.
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #4 - February 12, 2013, 11:21 PM
    Quote from: tabularasa on February 12, 2013, 10:40 PM
    Hearing their struggle I was reminded of how Muslim women in masjid's around the world are fighting for fair access to worship spaces and the ability to pray with the same rights as men.


    This reminds me of the time my friend and I were out shopping in Kuwait in the evening, and maghrib time came. The sun sets so fast there that you really can't delay maghrib, so we found the nearest masjid and went inside to pray. It was a smaller masjid and there was no apparent women's section, but the main area was empty so we chose a spot and stood to pray. An old man, presumably the imam, came up to us and (at first in Arabic, and then seeing we didn't understand, in very broken English) tried to explain that there was no space for women there, and we should go elsewhere. My friend indignantly declared that masjids were for everyone and that women used to pray in the same area as the prophet, and he had no right to deny us the chance to pray there. He tried to insist that we leave, mostly by gesturing, but I think he was intimidated by two American women arguing with him in English, so he eventually gave up. But had we been locals, there's no way we would have been allowed.
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #5 - February 12, 2013, 11:21 PM
    Quote from: Luthiel on February 12, 2013, 11:13 PM
    Think again. The majority of stories I heard from women who attended hajj or umrah involved seemingly deliberate sexual harassment, the most memorable being of my friend who had to make the tawaf with someone's erection pressed against her ass the entire time. It was crowded, of course, as there would be no other way he could have had the opportunity to be so close behind her.

    But it seems public sexual harassment is something to be expected in that culture where women are rarely around in public, and the holy site is not immune. There were a handful of times when I would be walking through a semi-crowded market in Kuwait and get my ass or boobs groped by a man in passing. And I was a very modestly dressed Muslim woman, not one of those fashionable Kuwaiti gals.

    It is a dreadful feeling to see a crowd of Arab men in a market and realize you must walk through them, or even nearby. My Muslim friends cited that as one of the reasons they were fine with the Islamic standard that women remain in the home.


    Oh no. I must need to be more precise in my quoting. The sexual groping and harassment is TOTALLY deliberate. I meant that giving women access to the holy boxes and hill tops was only done during peak times. Outside of Hajj time, with the acception of tawaf, women are still forced to the back of the mosque.    
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #6 - February 12, 2013, 11:26 PM
    Quote from: Luthiel on February 12, 2013, 11:13 PM
    It is a dreadful feeling to see a crowd of Arab men in a market and realize you must walk through them, or even nearby. My Muslim friends cited that as one of the reasons they were fine with the Islamic standard that women remain in the home.

    Umm, wouldn't it be more logical to make Islamic men stay at home, if they can't behave in public? I mean I like squeezing wench bitz as much as any bloke, but I do wait for an invitation. parrot
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #7 - February 12, 2013, 11:27 PM
    Quote from: Luthiel on February 12, 2013, 11:21 PM
    This reminds me of the time my friend and I were out shopping in Kuwait in the evening, and maghrib time came...


    Yep. I recall often times being out with my wife and stopping to pray, many times the women's section was not even unlocked. At the mosque in our neighborhood, I don't think the women's area was ever unlocked even once.
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #8 - February 12, 2013, 11:29 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on February 12, 2013, 11:21 PM
    Oh no. I must need to be more precise in my quoting. The sexual groping and harassment is TOTALLY deliberate. I meant that giving women access to the holy boxes and hill tops was only done during peak times. Outside of Hajj time, with the acception of tawaf, women are still forced to the back of the mosque.    

    Ah, I see what you meant Grin Yeah that makes more sense.

    But I was going to share that story in response to the op anyway Smiley
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #9 - February 12, 2013, 11:34 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on February 12, 2013, 11:27 PM
    Yep. I recall often times being out with my wife and stopping to pray, many times the women's section was not even unlocked. At the mosque in our neighborhood, I don't think the women's area was ever unlocked even once.

    I'm not sure when masjids started to get women's sections as standard. It makes sense to offer a private area for women if there are enough that use it. In my university town there were always women's halaqas going on, or even if some women want to attend a khutba it's nice for them to have a place they can comfortably relax and listen.

    But if you are just going to pray, and there's room, why get all stuffy about separating men and women? Women are already relegated to the back; is it such a fucking distraction just knowing they are there that you can't concentrate on your prayer for five minutes? Roll Eyes
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #10 - February 12, 2013, 11:35 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on February 12, 2013, 11:26 PM
    Umm, wouldn't it be more logical to make Islamic men stay at home, if they can't behave in public? I mean I like squeezing wench bitz as much as any bloke, but I do wait for an invitation. parrot

     Cheesy You would think!
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #11 - February 13, 2013, 01:52 AM
     Cheesy

    yeah I sort of figured that he meant access to prayer space and not sexual assault when he said "by necessity, not deliberation."  although I had to read it twice, myself. 

    That being said, if I had a nickel for every time I heard a story about some Muslim woman getting poked by a boner next to the Kaabah....I swear......
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #12 - February 13, 2013, 01:56 AM
    Quote
    I mean I like squeezing wench bitz as much as any bloke, but I do wait for an invitation.


    Quote.  Of.  The.  Day.

    Srsly?!    Cheesy
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #13 - February 13, 2013, 06:01 AM
    First time knowing about these Hajj boners. So gross.  no

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #14 - February 13, 2013, 01:45 PM
    Quote
    First time knowing about these Hajj boners. So gross.


    What Jila?  You didn't know that every Hajj package comes with a package?  Wink
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #15 - February 14, 2013, 03:56 AM
     Cheesy
    ew!
    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #16 - February 14, 2013, 04:11 AM
     Cheesy
    pun.
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #17 - February 14, 2013, 08:11 AM
    Come on guys, it's just Halal grinding. It's so Halal, that it only needs consent from one person. Smiley
  • Women of the Wall
     Reply #18 - February 14, 2013, 08:14 AM
    As a general rule of thumb though, I tend to try to keep my wee wee off of other people's bums, especially in crowded spaces and when said wee wee wants to stand up for a better view...
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