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 Topic: Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson

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  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     OP - February 19, 2013, 03:51 AM
    Quote
    Multicultural organisations say anti-Islamic Dutch MP Geert Wilders should use his Australia tour as a learning experience.

    Mr Wilders says Islam and freedom are incompatible and is coming with a warning about the dangers of allowing Muslims to immigrate to Australia.

    But a range of organisations that work in the multicultural sphere are determined to prove him wrong.

    The Q Society is funding Mr Wilders' Australian tour, which will involve speeches in Sydney and Melbourne this month -- about what he calls the Islamisation of Australia.

    Far from calling for Gert Wilders to be banned from Australia for his controversial views, Theo Mackaay from the Victorian Council of Churches says he is welcome to look and learn.

    "Let us extend our hospitality to Mr Wilders, let us engage with him, offer him the opportunity to learn how multiculturalism takes commitment but can be a wonderful wonderful way forward for any society."

    Victoria's Multicultural Affairs Minister Nicholas Kotsiras says Mr Wilders' views are wrong and misinformed.

    Mr Kotsiras says he supports freedom of speech but does not support the incitement of violence or hatred.

    "We are multicultural and we are proud of it, we have embraced it over many years and are a prime example of how it can work. And I find it a bit amazing that someone is ready to travel 16,000 kilometres to tell us why he or his party has failed in his own country."


    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1738440/Geert-Wilders-offered-multiculturalism-lesson

    I wish I could meet this guy. Don't have anything to say to him, but it would be fun to flash him and walk off.  runalong
    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #1 - February 19, 2013, 03:55 AM
    You may practice on me first if you wish, through the medium of private messaging  Tongue
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #2 - February 19, 2013, 04:34 AM
    Well with all the problems the salafi immigrants are causing in Europe he does have a point.


    Those people are causing problems in Europe and it is a direct result of their religious beliefs.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #3 - February 19, 2013, 05:11 AM
    Salafis, yes. Other Muslims, not so much. Salafis are sort of like the skinheads of Islam. Wink
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #4 - February 19, 2013, 02:44 PM
    The salafis even cause other muslims to become uncomfortable.


    Just last week there was a dinner at my relatives house and one of the guys was a hardcore salafi.


    After dinner he said  " look at these cool vids I found"


    When he played it they were vids of taliban going around and blowing shit up with Quran playing in the background.

    Shit got awkward fast. Grin  


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #5 - February 20, 2013, 10:13 AM

    Wilders is a demagogue.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #6 - February 20, 2013, 01:13 PM
    Well Billy, he might be one, but I still think he is unto something. The mass immigration from Muslim countries is a real problem in Europe.

    His failure comes with his inability to use the right terms. Multicultural societies can be successful, given certain sociopolitical conditions. There is nothing inherently impossible with that statement. The reason why the multicultural "experiment" is failing, is two fold.

    I) Immigration of people with disfavorable levels of religiosity and stone-agish world views. Followed by the Western society's failure to unlearn or even challenge these things. Why?

    II) Because of the filth of moral relativism and political correctness. That has given rise to an inability to take a clear stance against those who challenge free speech, those who subjugate women, honor killings, genital mutilation etc.

    This is the problem Geert Wilders and his likes should address and not stumble around on multiculturalism. A secular Muslim from Pakistan or Somalia and a secular Norwegian could live perfectly fine as neighbors of one another. This is a multiculturalism on a micro-level. Make them live with an extreme Salafi and the whole mechanism of peace and prosperity would be disrupted. Enforce a social handcuff on the secular Pakistani and his Norwegian neighbor, hindering them from criticizing the Salafi's demand to close the pub across the street in the name of political correctness and moral relativism and I would guess you would have a fair picture of how things are in Europe.

    The former scenario of successful multicultural experience, maybe euphoric, but occurs across the world. We know this happens. What Wilders should do, is sharpen his critic and terminology, towards those who hold religion higher than any human or governmental faculty there is.

    This is again why I'd prefer the likes of Hitchens over Wilders. Because of the aforementioned things.
    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #7 - February 20, 2013, 02:53 PM
    ^

    Exactly ! That is so True.


    For those who want a Christopher Hitchens take on immigration of muslims here ya go.  Londonistan


    People have to recognize that salafis and muslim fundamentlists are a growing problem in Britain, and Europe and that it has to be dealt with. And that means closing immigration from muslim countries immediately.

    And if the muslims keep causing problems due to their religion than it is entirely reasonable to deport only the problematic muslims back to third world islamic countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan.

     That is the only practical solution. If you don't like this solution than please, suggest a better one.



    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #8 - February 20, 2013, 04:00 PM
    Quote from: Minimow on February 20, 2013, 01:13 PM
    What Wilders should do, is sharpen his critic and terminology, towards those who hold religion higher than any human or governmental faculty there is.


    Wilders is just a politician. The critical scrutiny of reactionary forms of Islam isn't dependent on the political success of one man. It depends on society standing by its secular, liberal principles collectively and institutionally.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #9 - February 20, 2013, 04:03 PM
    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on February 20, 2013, 02:53 PM

    And if the muslims keep causing problems due to their religion than it is entirely reasonable to deport only the problematic muslims back to third world islamic countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan.

     That is the only practical solution. If you don't like this solution than please, suggest a better one.


    You can only deport people who are not citizens of your country.

    The whole issue of deporting people is far-right rhetoric ill fitted to deal with the issue at hand.

    Frankly, anyone who supports Geert Wilders is out of place on a forum like this.

    People are free to say what they want about him, but we do take a definite side, and his ideas and demagoguery are inimical to our work and philosophy.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #10 - February 20, 2013, 04:11 PM
    Deportation is the dumbest, least practical solution. Islam is an idea; it is a belief. You can not deport a belief. I am American born and bred, and yet for a time in my life, I got even more involved in Islam than many if not most "foreign" Muslims. I was never swayed by the violent jihadi arguments, quite the contrary actually. But had I been, where would I have been deported to?

    That type of solution is simply pandering to people's fears of "the other" and creates a racist, xenophobic society under which even most of us on this forum, despite our beliefs, would still suffer.   
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #11 - February 20, 2013, 04:26 PM
    Exactly ^^^


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #12 - February 20, 2013, 04:47 PM
    Ok I think I need to be a bit more clear about this. I am against all form of xenophobia or racism which means I am against  discriminating against people on the basis of their ethnicity, race or national origin etc.

    Having a dislike or fear salafis and similar religious extremists is NOT xenophobia because the dislike and fear of them is due to their actions and behavior alone and not their ethic or cultural backgrounds.

    When you say you can't export an ideology. The point I was trying to make was that by allowing immigration from third world islamic countries Britain and the rest of Europe have unintentionally imported radical and political Islam.  If these people were not brought into the country than this ideology would not be causing a problem on the scale that it is today.

    And I did not advocate deporting all muslims.  I am only advocating deporting salafis who go around marching around the streets calling for the deaths of certain people, creating a nuisance and committing other crimes due to their religious beliefs.

    Europe imported this problem and it can fix the situation by exporting it back to where it came from.  The EU and Britain should pass a law in order to execute this solution.


    So yes by removing the group of troublemakers that have been brought into this society back to their countries of national origin the problem and tensions that exist in Europe would be drastically reduced to a negligible level.


    And once again I pose the question. If you are against this then please provide a better solution.

    If you provide a better solution to this problem instead of just lumping people who support this solution into the same category as rightwing conservatives then I will take back my argument.

     
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #13 - February 20, 2013, 05:12 PM
    You can't 'deport' citizens of your own country just because they're Salafi.

    We've had countless discussions about Wilders on this forum over the years. He is inimical to everything we stand for. Maybe if you feel an affinity for him you're out of place here yourself.

    And since we managed to focus on supporting ex-Muslims and trying to build alliances with other secular liberal people we've started to make a difference. Instead of arguing the toss with Geert Wilders supporters who miss the point completely and wasted our time.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #14 - February 20, 2013, 05:18 PM
    Again, I have to say that I think your position is not very well thought out. It will inevitably lead to the very racism and xenophobia that you are against.

     I am a prime example of why it is a bad idea. I was a salafi and never a Jihadi. There is a huge difference.  In fact, I was actively a part of efforts to denounce groups like al-muhajiroon, hizbut-tahrir, jama’at at takfir wal hijrah, and other, more al-qaeda type organizations for the entire time I was a salafi. Those groups are dangerous and their threat is real, I agree. But when you institute a policy of deportation, it is impossible to discern those who follow an austere version of Islam from those who follow a violent version of Islam until after a crime has been committed. And this is key. What makes a criminal a criminal is not having backwards beliefs, but actually committing, or planning to commit a crime. Until you can establish that, you will inevitably be harassing, intimidating, and possibly even prosecuting people who pose no real threat to society and who are only exercising their right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression.

    The second problem of a “deportation” policy is that it can only be applied towards non-citizens. I agree, if a foreign national is found guilty of crimes against our state and deportation is an option, then that should be considered. The biggest spectacles of Islamically-inspired crime in my country, however, have been perpetrated by people who were here legally. And in the case of citizens, deportation is not an option for obvious reasons. It is a very simplistic proposal to solve a very complex problem.


    It’s an old adage, but I think we all have to remember that the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. We all know that there are horrible things in the religion of Islam that we abhor and criticize—as we should. But we must not fall prey to the hatred and bigotry that exists out there. People are Muslims for many different reasons. People are salafi for many different reasons; the least of those reasons is usually hatred or ill intent towards others. When I was a Muslim, I was against being treated unfairly because of my name, my appearance, or my beliefs. Now that I no longer believe in Islam, I am still against such discrimination.

    As for deportation specifically, there is virtually no problem I can think of that deportation would effectively solve. It may sound good to “send them muzzlims on back to where they came from,” but in reality, how many times is that even an effective option?
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #15 - February 20, 2013, 05:42 PM
    Quote from: billy on February 20, 2013, 05:12 PM
    We've had countless discussions about Wilders on this forum over the years. He is inimical to everything we stand for. Maybe if you feel an affinity for him you're out of place here yourself.

    And since we managed to focus on supporting ex-Muslims and trying to build alliances with other secular liberal people we've started to make a difference. Instead of arguing the toss with Geert Wilders supporters who miss the point completely and wasted our time.



    And when did I say I am against building alliances with secular and liberal people??  I am all for working with the secular left.


     I don't know much about Geert Wilders and if he does have socially conservative views on issues such as banning abortion and anti equality for gay people than I will certainly call him out for that and be against him.


    I think you need to stop making sweeping generalizations about people based on one political opinion. If Wilders supports deporting all muslims I would be against him if you took the time to read my previous posts.

    "And I did not advocate deporting all muslims."

     I just stated an opinion slightly different to his.

    Just because someone has a similar political opinion with a conservative politician on a particular issue that doesn't mean you can just lump that person into the " Far right wing " conservative category.


    Billy " Maybe if you feel an affinity for him you're out of place here yourself." 

    As far as I know people on CEMB have a variety of political views and there is nothing wrong with that unless they are advocating prejuidice and bigotry.

    I thought I was pretty damn clear about my opposition to any form of prejuidice and bigotry right in my last post

    " I am against all form of xenophobia or racism which means I am against  discriminating against people on the basis of their ethnicity, race or national origin etc........I did not advocate deporting all muslims." 

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #16 - February 20, 2013, 05:47 PM
    Quote
    I think you need to stop making sweeping generalizations


    That should have set your alarm bells ringing about Geert Wilders straight away.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #17 - February 20, 2013, 05:49 PM
    I get what you are saying TDR, I just think you need to think it through a little more. Religious freedom is extremely important in my view. It allows people to make their choices and develop their beliefs without state intervention. Salafis (and Mormons, Hasidic Jews, and Scientologists) must be allowed that same right. You should be free to be a salafi. You should not be free to be a criminal. And one does not necessarily imply the other. The rhetoric of deportation of salafis panders only to those who are less informed. It will have real consequences for people who have not committed any crimes. We should be against this.
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #18 - February 20, 2013, 06:02 PM
    Okay here's my take on this issue and bear in mind that I am in fact a secularist atheist, not a Christian social conservative and I am most certainly not "far right", but definitely not liberal to the point of tolerating intolerance. (Generally speaking I view myself somewhere in the center and don't really feel like I can identify with any left or right-wing ideology. Some of my views coincide with the right, others with the left.)

    First, why is Salafism and only Salafism blamed and presented as if it were an extremely unpopular view similar to the Islamic equivalent of Westboro Baptist Church?

    Was it not written in surah 9 verse 29: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."? Was that literal interpretation not confirmed by the tafsir of Ibn Kathir and plenty of other scholars that came way before nutters like Anjem Choudary and Al'Qaida came along?

    There's also "Reliance of the Traveller and Tools for the Worshipper", a Shafi'i manual that details how society should be run from civil law to criminal to foreign policy (i.e. very theocratic) and that includes warfare against unbelievers and death for apostasy. I can say the same for the Hanbali manual "Mukhtasar fi 'l-Fiqh" by Al-Khiraqi.


    Now I'm not saying that every single individual Muslim follows that and wants a theocracy or is even aware of that. There's always a wide range of devotion and knowledge within every religion and if the polls are anything to go by, as well as the results of the elections in countries who went through the Arab Spring, there's certainly a large portion (probably between 30% to 70% of Muslims, depending on region, for example Turkish Muslims are overall more likely to be secular than Egyptian Muslims) who want religion to play an important role in politics.


    In light of this, I think western countries should seriously consider a ban on immigration from certain problematic Muslim majority countries, at least until those country pull their act together and stop fostering an anti-western, anti-individual freedom culture and actually start forming an Islamic theology that is not at odds with democracy or the separation of church and state or the equality of rights between all citizens before the law (which the dhimma would deny). Or if they are to allow immigration from those countries, there should be some kind of interviewing process so those who would bring Sharia law (or any other form of totalitarian system) are declined. It really is not in anyone's interest to mix two mutually hostile cultures, it's not compassionate, it's not tolerant, it's just reckless plus immigration has never been a universal human right, if it was then the very concept of border would be illegitimate. This is a policy that should at least be considered without the word "xenophobe" being thrown around without merit.

    Now Muslims already citizens of a European country should stay, nobody should be stripped of citizenship, even if they openly support a theocratic totalitarian system, I think that creates more problems than it tries to solve and gives the government too much power (what's next? atheists deported including ones born there?). They're a minority and it won't really be an issue if the in-flow is stopped now. (Plus some Muslims can't be deported anywhere since they were born in the country or converted.)

    Don't let anyone bully you into accepting mass immigration in circumstances where that clearly is not in your best interest. Borders were made for a reason and your country's interests are more important. It's certainly irrational to fear immigration in general, not when specific immigrants are coming with little to no attention of adopting you core values like freedom or democracy.
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #19 - February 20, 2013, 06:12 PM
    Immigration is an entirely different topic. Quite frankly, it will differ from country to country and I don’t want to use a simple thread entry to discuss a topic as broad as immigration policy.

    My only point is and will always be that people should not be prosecuted for their beliefs alone. Until someone is individually convicted of a specific crime as defined by our secular penal code, they should be accorded all of the rights offered to citizens and non-citizens under the law.
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #20 - February 20, 2013, 06:16 PM
    DogmasDemise, you are aware that in the UK there is much debate going on about the expected wave of immigrants from your country Romania when it joins the EU next year? Much of it predicated on the arguments of a lack of cultural affinity.

    As HM said, immigration is a subject all on its own.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #21 - February 20, 2013, 06:22 PM
    Let’s entertain the thought for a moment. Let’s say the government were to pass a “Deportation of Salafis” bill. How do you propose that we go about implementing it on a practical level?

    Do we round up all men with beards over 2 inches?

    Do we quiz all Muslims on their understanding of every verse in the Qur’an that mentions jihad?

    Do we ban short trousers?

    Seriously. Before we go rallying behind ideas, we need to be sure that we have thought them through.
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #22 - February 20, 2013, 06:24 PM
    Waste of time even debating this nonsense. And that is what Geert Wilders brings to the table with his demagoguery. And you know what? He's done sweet fuck all for ex-Muslims in all his years as a politician, too.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #23 - February 20, 2013, 06:26 PM
    Okay, quick response to above, Romania is already in the EU, but yes I am aware of those discussions. I don't think the same argument can be made, there's really nothing in Romanian culture that can pose a threat to UK's culture and even if it did, the number of people actually emigrating to UK from Romania isn't very high.

    Then again it is their country so I'm not gonna push it.
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #24 - February 20, 2013, 06:34 PM
    That isn't what many people in the UK think mate! They reckon eastern European Romania with its different culture and social issues are not a healthy source of mass immigration.

    But you're right. Its a separate issue.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #25 - February 20, 2013, 06:45 PM
    I have noticed over the years being on the internet ...That many in europe have serious issues with gypsies. I learned this when i had an old yahoo account . on my profile i proudly proclaimed my heritage of gypsy (sihnti)and german native american etc... and you wouldnt believe how much hateful pms i recieved from europeans U.K germany, hungary, romania etc.. from the left right and center.... i became so tired of the daily verbal dehumanizing abuse i closed my account.

    The far right neo nazi types would focus on my mixed heritage while all others focused on the GYPSY..
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #26 - February 20, 2013, 06:46 PM
    Granted that you're not addressing militant Jihadists (who should be persecuted and not only deported), I can't really support your call for deportation. You can't deport a global problem, especially when it is rooted in ideology and not demography (as HappyMurtad points out).

    I also believe we have a war of ideas here. A war the clerical, conservative, reactionary, faith-based camp is bound to lose. Which is to say that deportation is counter-productive here. We need transparency, we need openness. Give the so called "extreme" Muslim the mic. Sit down and listen attentively. It is a lot more productive, than when someone like Tarik Ramadan puts on a moderate mask on TV, then calls for a moratorium on corporal punishment (stoning) on his private  webpage.

    This reminds me of the metaphor of "shouting fire in a crowded theater". The foolish metaphor put forward by Oliver Wendell Holmes, to address the issue of "dangerous" or "false" speech. It suggested (bearing the same implications as deportation) that certain ideas are too dangerous for reason and public debate to deconstruct. That there are some ideas or beliefs that should be stored away. A suggestion that is very, very dangerous itself. Because whether the underground gangsterism about which these beliefs then continue to grow unregulated as a cancer lump, is an intended consequence by the likes of Oliver Holmes, I don't know.

    But it is when these extreme views are made prone to open intellectual discourse, it is bound to dissolve. Because these beliefs are fear and shame-based and cannot stand the light of reason and knowledge. If we don't believe in that we might as well announce the capitulation of civil society and start mass deportations of views we don't like. It is when these views are pulled out of the underground gangsterism about which they thrive, that they hopefully (and a bit euphorically) start to lose appeal in those who propose them as well.

    But this is a to way-road. I will not have anyone tell me that I cannot depict Muhammed in a cartoon or criticize him in any other way. The point I'm trying to make though, is that we dig our own graves (in terms of free speech) if we intent to silent/deport those who disagree with us, if they be David Irving, Abdurraheem Green, the IslamNet-organization etc.

    This is when the discourse is on an ideological level. If we are talking about terror-planers, then they ought to be persecuted.
    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #27 - February 20, 2013, 07:33 PM
    The thing is this, concerns over Romanian immigration or gypsy immigration or Eastern European immigration seem to be a totally different nature (crime prevention at best and racism at worst, not a fear that public support for a theocracy will increase or that drastic cultural changes will happen to the point where the west no longer resembles the west or even increased risk of terrorism). I think western nations have the tools to more effectively combat this (deportation of offenders on an individual basis and the encouragement of immigration of qualified workers who are there for job and to earn their keep, not to participate in illegal activities or beggary.)

    Minimow, just curious what would you say about a policy, not to deport anyone, just a policy of not approving any future visas from certain "problematic" countries?
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #28 - February 20, 2013, 07:44 PM
    Well DogmasDemise, the problem Romanian immigration is a much more environmental one. Do we really want immigrants coming to a country for the sole purpose of engaging in illegal activities(littering, theft, beggary)? They are incapable of supporting their families by legal means. They can't contribute in any meaningful way to society and in fact they are exclusively destructive.

    Is your suggestion of not approving any future visas from these types of countries, worthwhile? I think so.
    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
  • Geert Wilders offered multiculturalism lesson
     Reply #29 - February 20, 2013, 08:01 PM
    Seems like you are trying to play devil's advocate but in Romania the unemployment rate is roughly 6% so clearly we can't all be reluctant to work or incapable of supporting our families. There's also a technical issue here, we don't need visas to travel freely in the EU. We are in the EU. Wink

    Anyway, I talk talking about Muslim majority countries (which thankfully none are in the EU). Countries like Egypt in particular trouble me, they had a chance to form a real democracy and most voters went for the Muslim Brotherhood or Al-Noor. (So it's not really hard to believe that once there is a strength in numbers, which will inevitably happen over several generations of continued mass immigration, an Islamic voting block will form.)
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