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Theme Changer

 Topic: America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq

 (Read 9187 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     OP - March 22, 2013, 03:52 AM

    Quote
    Many prominent doctors and scientists contend that DU contamination is also connected to the recent emergence of diseases that were not previously seen in Iraq, such as new illnesses in the kidney, lungs, and liver, as well as total immune system collapse. DU contamination may also be connected to the steep rise in leukaemia, renal, and anaemia cases, especially among children, being reported throughout many Iraqi governorates.

    There has also been a dramatic jump in miscarriages and premature births among Iraqi women, particularly in areas where heavy US military operations occurred, such as Fallujah.

    Official Iraqi government statistics show that, prior to the outbreak of the First Gulf War in 1991, the rate of cancer cases in Iraq was 40 out of 100,000 people. By 1995, it had increased to 800 out of 100,000 people, and, by 2005, it had doubled to at least 1,600 out of 100,000 people. Current estimates show the increasing trend continuing.


    Quote
    In July 2010, Busby released a study that showed a 12-fold increase in childhood cancer in Fallujah since the 2004 attacks. The report also showed the sex ratio had become skewed to 86 boys born to every 100 girls, together with a spread of diseases indicative of genetic damage - similar to, but of far greater incidence than Hiroshima.


    Don't have to be a Islamic extremist to feel bitter towards America.
    http://www.alternet.org/world/falluja-babies-and-depleted-uranium-americas-toxic-legacy-iraq?page=0%2C1

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #1 - March 22, 2013, 03:59 AM

    I'm American and I know the whole Iraq war was horrible piece of shit embarrassment. >:[
    However instead of being angry at my whole country, It's those jackasses that got elected to office.
    that everyone here despises.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #2 - March 22, 2013, 04:14 AM

    Quote
    It will not take much for the saber-rattling over Iran to reach a fever pitch. Disinformation and lies will spread, as they did in the lead up to the war in Iraq.   AlterNet will never swerve from fighting American empire and we hope we have earned your support. 

    Media that supported the invasion included the New York Times, which was among the worst, with Executive Editor Bill Keller, and star columnist Thomas Friedman, arguing vigorously for war. Friedman actually wanted France kicked out of the Security Council because it resisted. And who can forget the role that Times reporter Judith Miller played, providing enormous cover for the invasion by printing a pack of lies?

    The Washington Post was filled with warmongers.  George Packer lobbied for war in the pages of the New Yorker. Andrew Sullivan and Peter Beinart of the Atlantic, Joe Klein of Time, Leon Wieseltier of the New Republic, Jeffrey Goldberg of Newsday, Fareed Zakaria of Newsweek, all pushed us towards war. So did Christopher Hitchens, Anne-Marie Slaughter, Paul Berman, surprisingly Glenn Greenwald, and even the sex columnist Dan Savage. 

      I know it is painful to consider but it is worth contemplating just how horrible and truly heart-breaking this war was and continues to be: 

        -The enormous human toll. In Iraq, nearly one million dead, five million displaced, hundreds of thousands of widows and orphans, untold misery and suffering.

        -As David Swanson has documented, the 2003 invasion included 29,200 air strikes, as the U.S. military targeted civilians, journalists, hospitals, and ambulances.  It also made use of what some might call "weapons of mass destruction," using cluster bombs, white phosphorous, depleted uranium, and a new kind of napalm in densely settled urban areas.

       -The United States military sustaining more than 4,480 deaths.  More than 32,000 U.S. troops were wounded in Iraq. Countless other Americans are forever maimed, while many suffer mental traumas from which they will never fully recover.

        -Brown University’s “Costs of War” project estimates that the total cost of war in Iraq was  $1.7 trillion, with an additional $490 billion in benefits owed to war veterans, expenses that could grow to more than $6 trillion over the next four decades when interest is included.

        -And the result?  Iraq is in turmoil today, allied with Iran, perhaps on the brink of another civil war. There is enormous corruption and profiteering, but very little infrastructure. Millions still suffer every day as a result of our invasion.

    Writing about this is very depressing, in part because clearly not enough has changed. Many of the perpetrators of what the Economist calls "The Grand Delusion," still defend the war, with reality defying statements.


    http://www.alternet.org/world/do-you-want-avoid-next-iraq?page=0%2C0

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #3 - March 22, 2013, 04:23 AM

    It was a total fuckup. Afghanistan is a fuckup too.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #4 - March 22, 2013, 04:34 AM

    Thanks bushie dooosh
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #5 - March 22, 2013, 06:01 AM

    It's even more depressing, when you consider how powerless people were to do anything to stop it. The war was waged without the approval of congress, and without the support of the majority of Americans.

    Freedom is a really wonderful thing.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #6 - March 22, 2013, 11:18 AM

    HURR DURR Iraq has weapons of mass destruction!!

    This is awful, total retards those at the office taking that decision.
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #7 - March 22, 2013, 12:39 PM

    This was a good debate. You guys should watch it.

    Hitchens vs Michael Parenti on Iraq.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nik0273l8K4

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #8 - March 22, 2013, 12:58 PM

    It's even more depressing, when you consider how powerless people were to do anything to stop it. The war was waged without the approval of congress, and without the support of the majority of Americans.

    Freedom is a really wonderful thing.

    Congress passed the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 thereby approving the war. I'm also quite sure there was widespread support in the U.S. for the invasion at first, and in its initial stages (there are opinion polls from the time indicating this). It was only when it lasted longer than the Americans had anticipated (more than a few weeks), no WMD were found, and their soldiers' bodies began piling up that the war started to look like Vietnam and became widely unpopular in the U.S. Most of the rest of the world was against it from the beginning though. It was an illegal invasion IMO, and Bush had designs on removing Saddam and invading Iraq before 9/11 so the whole thing was very sinister right from the beginning. 
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #9 - March 22, 2013, 03:56 PM

    Quote
    I'm also quite sure there was widespread support in the U.S. for the invasion at first

    This was a good debate. You guys should watch it.

    Hitchens vs Michael Parenti on Iraq.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nik0273l8K4


    2 hours <_<' Is it some pro Iraq war stuff though? 2 hours of it?

    Quote
    I'm also quite sure there was widespread support in the U.S. for the invasion at first

    This is true, and these anniversary articles make reference to this as well. My own family supported it. They didn't realise it would last a decade and fuck Iraq worse than Saddam did. Exiled Iraqis just thought once Saddam gets removed, a new govt comes in place and they'd all go home. Instead, 5 million more got displaced.

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #10 - March 22, 2013, 04:02 PM

    It's a debate.

    The political science prof argues against the Iraq war while Hitchens argues in favor of the Iraq war.

    I myself have not yet done enough research about the war to reach a conclusion on it but I must say Hitchens won that debate.



    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #11 - March 22, 2013, 04:09 PM

    Hitchens was plain wrong on the Iraqi war no way around it.

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #12 - March 22, 2013, 04:14 PM

    Even with the evidence, he supports the war? America could have pointed at Kuwait or Jordan or Timbuktu o.O Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. A lie is a lie... Meh <_< I'm half an hour in so far and this other guy is winning for me.

    @TDR btw

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #13 - March 22, 2013, 04:16 PM

    -  On 15 December 2011, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta officially declared the Iraq War over, at a flag lowering ceremony in Baghdad ( Wikipedia)


    - Christopher Hitchens died on December 15, 2011.   

    It's quite symbolic  Smiley

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #14 - March 22, 2013, 04:18 PM

     wacko

    No idea how that has anything to do with anything.

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #15 - March 22, 2013, 04:49 PM

    ^ He died on the same day as the war he cheerleaded for?
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #16 - March 22, 2013, 05:14 PM

    wacko

    No idea how that has anything to do with anything.

     

    Hitchens was the most vocal supporter and advocate of the Iraq war and he died on the same day the war ended.

    The Iraq war ended the same day it's most prominent advocate and supporter died.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #17 - March 22, 2013, 05:26 PM

    America just fucks up everything. Every country gets the government they deserve, and Islamic countries are not ready for democracy and secularism.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #18 - March 22, 2013, 05:31 PM

    Quote
    America just fucks up everything. Every country gets the government they deserve, and Islamic countries are not ready for democracy and secularism.

     

    Well what do you mean by Islamic countries?? You have to look at the situations more carefully than that.

    If you mean Pakistan then I would agree the vast majority of people there are religous extremists and fundamentalists and they will support a theocracy over a secular democracy but in the case of Iran the people are pretty secular minded, hate the theocracy they live under and would love to have a secular democracy in place instead.


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #19 - March 23, 2013, 01:40 AM

    Americans are very polite and gentle

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY7XDAYoTWg

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #20 - March 23, 2013, 05:48 AM

    Oooh ok. I didn't realise he was the most prominent advocate for the war. That's kinda creepy o.O

    @TDR,Alethia btw

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #21 - March 23, 2013, 07:03 AM

    ^ It is pretty creepy. I actually like Hitchens but his support for the invasion of Iraq was wrong.
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #22 - March 28, 2013, 12:55 PM

    Illuminati did it.


    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #23 - March 28, 2013, 02:40 PM

    Well, I wholeheartedly support the Iraq war. I came to a point were I knew too much of Saddam Hussein's secret police, his sadomasochistic purge in 1979, his hunt for psychopathic serial killers and sadists, not to incarcerate them but to use them against the people. Not to mention his complete implementation of one of the most palpable forms of totalitarianism in modern history. As Jalal Talabani briefly but yet disturbingly put it, Iraq was a mass grave beneath the surface and a concentration camp on it.

    And if that wasn't bad enough, Saddam Hussein's planned successor, his son Uday was possibly more sadistic and had a shorter fuse. Iraq was firmly set for centuries of a 1984'ish nightmare state and there was nothing Iraqis could do about it. As Western correspondents would tell you, only the mere mention of the Leader's name would spark a flicker of panic, an impulsive glance above one's shoulder. There were conversations between these correspondents whether or not the fear was so palpable that it could be cut with a knife. So there we go, a population numbed by decades of constant fear trapped in a regime willing to kill them for pronouncing the name of the Leader without enough stealth or conviction. And that is for the daily struggles of the ordinary Iraqi. If you were unlucky enough to be a Kurd or a Shiite on top of a resident of Saddam's regime, well you just happened to have an unfortunate shot at life. Because by then you were so worthless to Saddam's regime that you were made to pay for the bullets used to kill your son or daughter. You most certainly had at least one family member firmly and safely stored away in a mass grave, alongside hundreds of thousands of other Kurds or Shiites. And that was, if you were lucky enough to not be the recipient of that bullet or the occupier of that grave. A mass grave beneath the surface and a concentration camp on it.

    I think Iraq deserved to be emancipated from a regime like that. Or if we stood by and watched Saddam do what he did for 40 years, make sure we didn't stand by and watch what Uday had coming for his 40-50 year spell. Because, for those who knew what this Uday was capable of, it wouldn't be hard to imagine how much uglier his regime would've become.

    So no, I don't see why it is so crystal clear to so many that this war was "unnecessary" or "avoidable". We have now, in a poorly administered war admittedly, made sure that the future generations of Iraq don't have to choose between complete servility or complete annihilation. Isn't that something worthwhile?

    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #24 - March 28, 2013, 03:26 PM

    We have now, in a poorly administered war admittedly, made sure that the future generations of Iraq don't have to choose between complete servility or complete annihilation. Isn't that something worthwhile?

    And quite right too. What're a few dead people when freedom and democracy are at stake? Let Sunni kill Shia and Shia kill Sunni and those others, well.. leave. Or convert. Or just be killed. Who cares if the natural beneficiaries of the last Iraq war may be described uncharitably as sectarian nobodies*? Democracy brought by IED and AK-47 must at least be as valid as the variety brought to you by cruise missile and stealth bomber.. mustn't it?

    * Being honourable men of religion, they have striven to maintain the freedom and democracy gifted Iraq in 2003 in the finest post-Saddamite tradition. Such idealism makes one weep.
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #25 - March 28, 2013, 04:36 PM

    Quote from: toorlink=topic=23664.msg679667#msg679667 date=1364481632
    And quite right too. What're a few dead people when freedom and democracy are at stake? Let Sunni kill Shia and Shia kill Sunni and those others, well.. leave. Or convert. Or just be killed. Who cares if the natural beneficiaries of the last Iraq war may be described uncharitably as sectarian nobodies*? Democracy brought by IED and AK-47 must at least be as valid as the variety brought to you by cruise missile and stealth bomber.. mustn't it?

    * Being honourable men of religion, they have striven to maintain the freedom and democracy gifted Iraq in 2003 in the finest post-Saddamite tradition. Such idealism makes one weep.


    Well there you have it. The absolute bankruptcy of the anti-Americana pacifist.

    Let's forget that Saddam broke all the codes of the genocide convention (he invaded a sovereign state, he developed WMD, he committed genocide and he hosted terrorists), a convention with which armed intervention can be justified under international law. Let's ignore the fact that he projected unto his people, his sadomasochistic craze and bloodthirst. Let's forget the mass graves in the North and the concentration camps in the South. Let's forget his use of physicians like Dr. Mahdi Obeidi to relocate centrifuge components from one place to another, so to confuse UN-inspectors. Facts btw only disclosed by Obeidi in his book "The Bomb in the Garden". Let's ignore the fact that avoiding a war would mean vast oil resources being left to the decision making of a raging psychopathic crime family. Let's forget that Uday Hussein was set to succeed his father, the former being possibly one of the very few persons on this planet capable of more evil than his father.

    Let's forget all that, because USA and their f'ing democracy are so imperialists and so war-loving etc.

    But hey, people can be bothered with the physical removal of the killer of approximately 600 000 all they want. I chose to celebrate his removal, demise and humiliation with those who he inflicted so much pain on. And I salute George Bush for at least getting something right. Iraq will be eternally grateful to this illiterate Bible thumber for the emancipation of Iraq.

    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #26 - March 28, 2013, 04:44 PM

    Well, I wholeheartedly support the Iraq war. I came to a point were I knew too much of Saddam Hussein's secret police, his sadomasochistic purge in 1979, his hunt for psychopathic serial killers and sadists, not to incarcerate them but to use them against the people. Not to mention his complete implementation of one of the most palpable forms of totalitarianism in modern history. As Jalal Talabani briefly but yet disturbingly put it, Iraq was a mass grave beneath the surface and a concentration camp on it.

    And if that wasn't bad enough, Saddam Hussein's planned successor, his son Uday was possibly more sadistic and had a shorter fuse. Iraq was firmly set for centuries of a 1984'ish nightmare state and there was nothing Iraqis could do about it. As Western correspondents would tell you, only the mere mention of the Leader's name would spark a flicker of panic, an impulsive glance above one's shoulder. There were conversations between these correspondents whether or not the fear was so palpable that it could be cut with a knife. So there we go, a population numbed by decades of constant fear trapped in a regime willing to kill them for pronouncing the name of the Leader without enough stealth or conviction. And that is for the daily struggles of the ordinary Iraqi. If you were unlucky enough to be a Kurd or a Shiite on top of a resident of Saddam's regime, well you just happened to have an unfortunate shot at life. Because by then you were so worthless to Saddam's regime that you were made to pay for the bullets used to kill your son or daughter. You most certainly had at least one family member firmly and safely stored away in a mass grave, alongside hundreds of thousands of other Kurds or Shiites. And that was, if you were lucky enough to not be the recipient of that bullet or the occupier of that grave. A mass grave beneath the surface and a concentration camp on it.

    I think Iraq deserved to be emancipated from a regime like that. Or if we stood by and watched Saddam do what he did for 40 years, make sure we didn't stand by and watch what Uday had coming for his 40-50 year spell. Because, for those who knew what this Uday was capable of, it wouldn't be hard to imagine how much uglier his regime would've become.

    So no, I don't see why it is so crystal clear to so many that this war was "unnecessary" or "avoidable". We have now, in a poorly administered war admittedly, made sure that the future generations of Iraq don't have to choose between complete servility or complete annihilation. Isn't that something worthwhile?



    This is a very narrow viewpoint. Our Kurd/Shia community also supoorted the war when it first started. My dad is one of the many here who spent nearly a decade in jail before the gulf war broke out. Then another four years in a refugee camp (most of my friends,including my sister were born in either jail or refugee camps), total of 14 years of being "exiled" (not complaining about this since we are in a safe country now).
    The Shia and Kurd community supported the war and as soon as Saddam was killed, we literally flocked back to Iraq in large groups because our dads were no longer on any most wanted lists.
    Also, after the removal of Saddam, the prisons "opened", meaning that our families went from prison to prison collecting relatives (or in our case, after 14 years of waiting, being told that our men were all recorded to have been murdered in 1991).

    I mean I'm just drawing out a picture of the type of families that support the war, and it's those who really suffered (as you can imagine, the pro Saddam Sunnis are butt hurt that their genocidal leader was taken out).
    Also, under any other circumstance (including now), Kurds and Iraqis don't get along, in fact, Iraqis are against the idea or giving any land to the Kurds, and the Kurds resent Iraq for the mistreatment, but this exile has brought our community together even if temporarily.

    The fact is, *now* after a decade of invasion (everyone was excited and happy by 2004), people who supported this war are the ones saying that under all the horrors of Saddam, there were no random car bombings and suicide bombings and poison in the food and all of these new horrors that have lasted 10 years after Saddam's death. The war lasted 10 years longer than it should have and has induced more suffering than what people had initially gone through. People *hate* Saddam, but the Americans receive the kind of hatred that Saddam would have envied.  

    Saddam executed Shia religious leaders and his men posted videos of high ranking scholar assassinations as warning to dissenters. People talked about that forever after they were free to do so. But now there is a different kind of murder, and it is no longer calculated. Suicide bombers enter into wherever they please: markets, government buildings, holy places, and they just murder dozens each week - 10 years straight of this.
    There is something much scarier about this because now anyone is a target, as opposed to calculated murders and disappearances of anti Saddam citizens in the past - where you know that if you were involved in anti government activity, there is a chance you could "disappear" if a mole tells the police. As you can imagine, those who didn't suffer under Saddam (most of West Baghdad, for example, who collected all the benefits of supporting him) think we are traitors for supporting a war that caused them to lose their security. I wont be a dick and call it karma, but they are still incapable of seeing past their own noses o.O

    Anyway this is my summary/rant about why people's support for the war died about a decade ago. I am extremely anti war. I believe a country needs activism from within. For example in Iraq now, there is not enough push to get people working on infrastructure. This new useless government needs to make programs where people work on roads and rebuild. But the war allowed one other negative aspect, and that is stealing. Everyone drives some hot new car, and yet, there aren't any proper roads! I wonder when they will wake up and start putting their investment into rebuilding...
    Now, the only way this can be fixed is if people get their shit together and start their own activism to rebuild, focus energy on that rather than mourning that damn Hussein 24/7, or at least use that energy to create charity workers or something (yeah right) because the government sure as hell wont do anything .

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #27 - March 28, 2013, 04:53 PM

    Well there you have it. The absolute bankruptcy of the anti-Americana pacifist.

    Let's forget that Saddam broke all the codes of the genocide convention (he invaded a sovereign state, he developed WMD, he committed genocide and he hosted terrorists), a convention with which armed intervention can be justified under international law. Let's ignore the fact that he projected unto his people, his sadomasochistic craze and bloodthirst. Let's forget the mass graves in the North and the concentration camps in the South. Let's forget his use of physicians like Dr. Mahdi Obeidi to relocate centrifuge components from one place to another, so to confuse UN-inspectors. Facts btw only disclosed by Obeidi in his book "The Bomb in the Garden". Let's ignore the fact that avoiding a war would mean vast oil resources being left to the decision making of a raging psychopathic crime family. Let's forget that Uday Hussein was set to succeed his father, the former being possibly one of the very few persons on this planet capable of more evil than his father.

    Let's forget all that, because USA and their f'ing democracy are so imperialists and so war-loving etc.

    But hey, people can be bothered with the physical removal of the killer of approximately 600 000 all they want. I chose to celebrate his removal, demise and humiliation with those who he inflicted so much pain on. And I salute George Bush for at least getting something right. Iraq will be eternally grateful to this illiterate Bible thumber for the emancipation of Iraq.


    Your ability to perceive noble purposes in politics marks you out, but not in the way you might think. Salute away.
  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #28 - March 28, 2013, 05:07 PM

    Yeah the salute thing..... :/ especially since it assumes GWB had Iraq's best interests in mind, when he is a flat out liar (whatever his real motives were). I don't buy into the conspiracy theories either though, and to me, they are irrelevant...I don't know why it happened, and no one can really say why...but now it is what it is.

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • America's Toxic Legacy in Iraq
     Reply #29 - March 28, 2013, 05:15 PM

    And why do you suppose that it was the responsibility of the American tax payer to finance this noble objective? Why must our sons and daughters be martyred for this glorious cause? The world is better off without Saddam, but the same could be said of dictators the world over. Why is it the responsibility of my government to determine which dictators are tolerable and which require immediate deposal? I don't believe that the ends justify the means or that the ends somehow lend nobility to otherwise less than noble intentions.
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