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Theme Changer

 Topic: Racism among fellow Muslims

 (Read 8677 times)
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  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #30 - April 02, 2013, 04:46 PM

    There are some women who use "facial bleaching" creams to look lighter and it's sort of a running joke where in pictures you'd notice some women's faces are ghostly white and then their hands are as black as charcoal. It looks silly Tongue Apparently there's actual bleach meant for skin but it's banned here or something; there's a woman in our area whose infamous for regularly "bleaching" her face and she's been nicknamed to as "Michael Jackson". 

    I don't think the obsession with light skin is too OTT with Somalis (though it certainly exists) but idk maybe it's because I'm quite light-skinned (for an African) so I've never felt like my skin colour mattered at all. 

    I've never heard of anyone actually being worried that nobody would marry them for being too dark. That's insane! 
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #31 - April 02, 2013, 04:52 PM

    Islam in and of itself isn't racist. You'd have to look *very* hard to find something blatantly racist in mainstream Islam. I was never racist as a Muslim and I've never encountered anyone using Islam to justify racism BUT Muslims are human and mostly from -- let's face it -- backwards, politically incorrect societies so there were some open racists here and there. In the GCC countries there's a lot of overt racism, as has been mentioned already, usually against non-Arab, non-Western people. I don't know too much about their history or culture so I may be wrong but I think it's motivated by classism in a sense as most non-Arab, non-Western workers in the GCC are poorly educated  labourers from the Third World. 
     
    There were also some tensions between the different ethnic groups at Islamic school. It was quite malicious when I was little. It was more light-hearted banter and a joke here and there about this ethnic group or that ethnic group as we got older; the atmosphere became more racialist than less racist in that you always felt aware of the fact that you were a member of X ethnic group but you weren't necessarily derided for your ethnicity. It wasn't even race, it was national background. Don't get me wrong, everyone had friends of all races/ethnicities and for the most part we got on great but there was the occasional explosion of racism. 

    Being Muslim definitely comes first and in my family, it's all that matters.

    Generally I'd say Muslims in the West -- at least IME -- don't care too much about race and we tend to all get along. 
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #32 - April 02, 2013, 05:14 PM

    Quote
    Islam in and of itself isn't racist.


    But it does promote inequality and the demonisation of non Muslims. That's the thing.

    Muslims make dawah about this 'theoretical' racial equality whilst promoting a hierachy of humanity - non Muslims are not equal to Muslims, to say nothing of the gender hierarchies.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #33 - April 03, 2013, 08:04 AM

    There are some women who use "facial bleaching" creams to look lighter and it's sort of a running joke where in pictures you'd notice some women's faces are ghostly white and then their hands are as black as charcoal. It looks silly Tongue Apparently there's actual bleach meant for skin but it's banned here or something; there's a woman in our area whose infamous for regularly "bleaching" her face and she's been nicknamed to as "Michael Jackson". 

    I don't think the obsession with light skin is too OTT with Somalis (though it certainly exists) but idk maybe it's because I'm quite light-skinned (for an African) so I've never felt like my skin colour mattered at all. 

    I've never heard of anyone actually being worried that nobody would marry them for being too dark. That's insane! 



    i think south asians don't use bleach but rather just stay out of the sun if they think they'll get dark. as a result, women in the subcontinent have the highest rate of vitamin D deficiency (http://www.hindustantimes.com/Entertainment/Wellness/Why-most-Indians-are-vitamin-D-deficient/Article1-1036052.aspx).

    but indians/bangladeshis/pakistanis totally whiten brides during weddings, they kinda look like ghosts sometimes -

    The right to think the unthinkable, discuss the unmentionable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #34 - April 03, 2013, 08:30 AM

    So I don't if anyone has brought it up yet because I'm about to go to sleep I didn't care to read all of the posts. So I've noticed two things, 1. Non Arabic speakers: even though I'm very Arab I don't speak Arabic. My dad never taught me and really never cared if I learned. I did try to for the longest time (and still do) to learn Arabic and to learn the Quran. Now a lot of Muslim friends of mine never read the Quran (like most religious people) and so don't know many of the stories and so rely on people like Nouman Ali Khan, or Zakir Naik. When I try to show them reasons why they are wrong they immediately say "you don't speak Arabic", as if the translators are completely inept. At that point they immediately shut me out (this is all still when I was a Muslim) of any conversation about the Quran. Another note is if you don't speak Arabic a lot of people avoid conversing with you, it's just down right rude. Them: "Khaef halek"
    Me: "I'm good but I don't speak Arabic"
    Them "ohh" *walks away*
    It's like saying I want to talk with but not in a tongue you understand at all.
    2. People inside of mosque segregate themselves with their race.( I still go due to the fact I'm a closet atheist) I've noticed that all of the Pakistanis sit by each other, all the Arabs next to each other, etc. I've only been to about 6 mosque and 2 of them regularly but, does anybody else notice that phenomenon.

    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #35 - April 03, 2013, 12:27 PM

    Quote
    does anybody else notice that phenomenon.


    @Sam
    What you say is true, and it just shows how this utopia of everyone just mixing in doesn't really work. I think people can get along to an extent, then there are things that people of the same culture just get. Like an inside joke or something. Even among friends, if two are idk, Afghan and one is Lebanese, there will be those moments.
    I think it's totally normal, but Islam has to go that step extra to claim brotherhood over everything. It's like calling out the preacher who doesn't practise or something.

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #36 - April 03, 2013, 05:26 PM

    @jila
    Yeah that's kinda the reason I rejected the umma (even as Muslim). Everybody chose to be with others of their own race. This was even more problematic for me being that I'm an Arab who doesn't speak Arabic. All the Arabs would then avoid conversations with me because of it

    Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.

    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.
    - George Carlin
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #37 - August 25, 2013, 05:05 PM

    the Ummah is very popular in places muslims are a minority.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #38 - January 26, 2014, 06:55 PM

    This thread makes me want to take a holiday in the Middle East.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #39 - January 26, 2014, 08:20 PM

    i think south asians don't use bleach but rather just stay out of the sun if they think they'll get dark. as a result, women in the subcontinent have the highest rate of vitamin D deficiency (http://www.hindustantimes.com/Entertainment/Wellness/Why-most-Indians-are-vitamin-D-deficient/Article1-1036052.aspx).

    but indians/bangladeshis/pakistanis totally whiten brides during weddings, they kinda look like ghosts sometimes -
    (Clicky for piccy!)


    This is true. All my cousins who are married had that face. When I look at their pictures, I just laugh and at the same time  It pisses me off how the give so much importance to the white colour. Every colour is beautiful, why try to change?
    They have this inferiority complex -_-
    And yes they stay out of the sun. My mom used to do that  to me "you'll get darker skin, are you mad?" 


    @topic   Some of my uncles live in Saudia Arabia and they think Arabian are somewhat racist towards Pakistani. 
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #40 - January 26, 2014, 09:11 PM

    1. In different Islamic countries/ communities how do they treat other Muslims of a different race/ethnicity.

    We had a very close community. Friendships across racial/ethnic lines, diverse mosque attendance. Pretty good all and all.

    2. Any personal experiences based on your race about how you were treated? Better, Neutral, or Looked down on.

    There were a few people I hung around with - Somalis - who felt that Arabs in particular looked down on us and therefor they looked down on Arabs. But these people never hung around Arabs all that much and I personally never saw it.

    3. Are racial tensions in Islam, out in the open or silent?

    Never saw any in my community.

    4. How does marriage between Muslims of different races work out? In some cases does being Muslim take priority or does race?

    I only know of one example of this. An old Somali teacher of mine married a black/white Muslim convert and they got divorced. My dad told me it was a lesson for us and that it proved marriages outside of your ethnicity/background never worked.

    5. Or is racism not that big a deal and Muslims see everyone as family and equal.

    I think, rather than race, ethnicity is what matters more to Muslims. My parents didn't care much for other Africans, but they, especially my mom, admired Arabs. Always told me and my sister if we wanted to marry out that they would only allow us to marry Arabs. Although, they did look down on black Americans and used to call them some derogatory term in Somali rather than calling them black, and always reminded us that we were Somali, and therefor better in some way. Whenever I would call myself black or African American, they would correct me immediately. So there is that.

    Re: Skin Bleaching, I know a few people who've done it but the product doesn't do their skin any good. It makes it obvious that they've done something to it and makes their skin look thin if that makes sense. I think a bigger problem is the relaxing/straightening of hair as skin bleaching isn't that common and plenty of dark skinned women get married and have no problems doing so.

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #41 - January 26, 2014, 09:18 PM

    Quote
    but they, especially my mom, admired Arabs


    Is that an islam or cultural thing do you think? I've read more than once how Arabs are the best of people, sometimes sprinkled with other delights. Basically racial supremacy. Especially in less developed countries the dawah warriors do seem to breed a sort of Arab worship.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #42 - January 26, 2014, 09:24 PM

    Amongst the Pakistani community there is a consensus that Arabs consider themselves superior above all and that the Saudis are the worst cilprits. They treat Pakistani workers worse than scum. Saudis love the white man and his money however.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #43 - January 26, 2014, 09:27 PM

    Most Muslims familiar with Islamic teachings believe it is a religious requirement, to venerate Arabs.
    Let me see..
    This is from another forum, but I like how it is laid out per madhab:
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f20/we-must-believe-arabs-are-master-race-13926/index53.html#post131973

    The nobility of Arabs over other nations isn't something specific to the Salafis but has been the belief of the Muslim Ummah, including the four Madhabs for 1400 years. This belief is reflected well when the scholars discuss kafa'a in marriage.

    Fact: al-Nawawi al-Shafi'i believed in the invalidation of marriage contract between an Arab woman and a non-Arab man.


    Fact: Hanafis consider the Qurayshis to be the most noble, and then the Arabs and then the non-Arabs, and stated that a non-Arab shouldn't be married to an Arab just as a non-Qurayshi shouldn't be married to a Qurayshi. See Bada'i al-Sana'i and Hashiyat Ibn 'Abdin.

    Fact: Shafi'is agree with the Hanafis and go a step further saying that the non-Hashimi from the Quraysh shouldn't marry the Hashimis or Muttalibis. They also argue that the Persians are more noble than the Copts, as the Banu Israel are also more noble than the Copt.

    Fact: Imam Ahmad splits people into two categories regarding Kafa'a; Arabs and non-Arabs. In another opinion he agrees with the Shafi'is that non-Qurayshis shouldn't marry Qurayshis and non-Hashimi Qurayshis shouldn't marry Hashimis, etc.

    Fact: Imam Malik doesn't consider the nobility of the Arabs to be a factor considered in kafa'a not that he denies the nobility of the Arabs over other nations.

    So here we have the Islamic tradition in bulk, not only considering Arabs nobler than others but going to the extent of making it an issue of kafa'a in marriage, with al-Nawawi considering invalidating a marriage between an Arab and non-Arab.

    This is the reality as it exists in our heritage, regardless of it being right or wrong. The facts cannot be denied as they exist, they can only be agreed or disagreed with.

    The neo-con Muslims who do not believe in the nobility of Arabs over all other nations are no doubt heretical according to what al-Bayhaqi and Ibn Taymiyya have to say. Both of them are from different theological schools, first being an Ash'ari and the second being a Salafi/Hanbali.

    The neo-con modernists who deny the nobility of Arabs over the rest of the nations, since they see it as racism, no doubt would also necessarily consider our entire traditional heritage with scholars from the four schools to be racist, too. All because they are too embarrassed of their religion and too proud of their Western heritage.

    Even more dangerous is the view that the Prophet was not noble due to his lineage since nobility only rests on Taqwa.

    I have no doubt about the deviation of such people.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Scary as hell.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #44 - January 26, 2014, 09:30 PM

    Amongst the Pakistani community there is a consensus that Arabs consider themselves superior above all and that the Saudis are the worst cilprits. They treat Pakistani workers worse than scum. Saudis love the white man and his money however.


    I heard stories about social visits and snubs from Saudi women towards Pakistani guests. In their houses. So much for Arab hospitality in Al Saud. No speak Arabi? Not human, seems to be the consensus I heard.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #45 - January 26, 2014, 09:52 PM

    Is that an islam or cultural thing do you think? I've read more than once how Arabs are the best of people, sometimes sprinkled with other delights. Basically racial supremacy. Especially in less developed countries the dawah warriors do seem to breed a sort of Arab worship.


    I don't know if it's Islam, I think it's cultural. Islam began in Arabia, the Quran is written in Arabic, Arabic is the language spoken in Heaven, people just generally believe that Arabs are the best Muslims (at least that's the feeling that I got). Then again, I do remember hearing about a hadith where Muhammad said Arabs are the best of Muslims and that whoever speaks Arabic is considered an Arab, though I don't think people accept that part anymore.

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #46 - January 26, 2014, 10:12 PM

    I heard stories about social visits and snubs from Saudi women towards Pakistani guests. In their houses. So much for Arab hospitality in Al Saud. No speak Arabi? Not human, seems to be the consensus I heard.


    Out of all the people Allah Ta'allah chose the Arabs to represent the epitome of piety.

    All others are savages.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #47 - January 26, 2014, 10:24 PM

    Amongst the Pakistani community there is a consensus that Arabs consider themselves superior above all and that the Saudis are the worst cilprits. They treat Pakistani workers worse than scum. Saudis love the white man and his money however.


    I've met Saudis in real life. Very full of themselves. There's a supremacy about them. Never actually been to Saudi, but I get the impression that being in Saudi while white is a good thing. Although non white westerners seem to also get good treatment going from the experiences of others.
    "Out of my way!"
    "Watch it mate."
    "Oh, you're English!"
     Roll Eyes

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #48 - January 26, 2014, 10:26 PM

    I don't know if it's Islam, I think it's cultural. Islam began in Arabia, the Quran is written in Arabic, Arabic is the language spoken in Heaven, people just generally believe that Arabs are the best Muslims (at least that's the feeling that I got). Then again, I do remember hearing about a hadith where Muhammad said Arabs are the best of Muslims and that whoever speaks Arabic is considered an Arab, though I don't think people accept that part anymore.


    But when you have parts of the theology that say flat out Arabs are the best of people, it's hard to read that any other way. It's also hard to read the worst muslim is better than the best non muslim and non believers are cattle in any positive light.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #49 - January 27, 2014, 12:09 AM

    Quod where are you getting that info from!? It say exactly the opposite....I know this hadith by heart because of how often it got read at khutbahs back at school

    :

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), during his Last Sermon in Minâ, said: “O people! Your Lord is one Lord, and you all share the same father. There is no preference for Arabs over non-Arabs, nor for non-Arabs over Arabs. Neither is their preference for white people over black people, nor for black people over white people. Preference is only through righteousness.” Then he said: “Have I conveyed the message?” and the people declared that he had. [Musnad Ahmad (22391)]

    And btw, Arabs are snobby to other Arabs. Like in Dubai, all those fancy pansed people will look down on us because we're not dressed as fancy pansed as them. We look like them, speak their language, but they talk down to us (and not to mention us being refugees). And Arabs are extremely nationalistic too (which is another anti Islamic concept).

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #50 - January 27, 2014, 12:19 AM

    There are contradictory Hadith on this:

    http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=9427&CATE=1

    The fact that Allah Most High has chosen the Arabs over other nations is affirmed in rigorously authenticated hadiths of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and give him peace; related by Bukhari and Muslim in their "Sahih" in the beginning of the chapter of merits, # 5897, on the authority of Wathilah ibn al-Asqa` who said, "I heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say, 'Verily Allah has chosen Kinanah from the son of Isma`il, and He has chosen Quraysh from among Kinanah and He has chosen Hashim from among Quraysh and He has chosen me from the Bani Hashim.'"

    So this hadith is a primary text about the preference of Arabs over others and the preference of some Arabs over other Arabs. And this is what the Imams have chosen from the.........of their books, and even in individual books such as the book of Qurb about the merit of Arabs, authored by the great Imam al-Hafiz Zayn al-din al-`Iraqi. And it was summarized by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Hajar al-Haytami and others.

    Therefore the preference of Arabs over other nations, and the preference of some Arabs over other Arabs is affirmed in the Sacred Law.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    And surely, racists know best, who is racist and why.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #51 - January 27, 2014, 12:30 AM

    Quod where are you getting that info from!? It say exactly the opposite....I know this hadith by heart because of how often it got read at khutbahs back at school

    :

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), during his Last Sermon in Minâ, said: “O people! Your Lord is one Lord, and you all share the same father. There is no preference for Arabs over non-Arabs, nor for non-Arabs over Arabs. Neither is their preference for white people over black people, nor for black people over white people. Preference is only through righteousness.” Then he said: “Have I conveyed the message?” and the people declared that he had. [Musnad Ahmad (22391)]

    And btw, Arabs are snobby to other Arabs. Like in Dubai, all those fancy pansed people will look down on us because we're not dressed as fancy pansed as them. We look like them, speak their language, but they talk down to us (and not to mention us being refugees). And Arabs are extremely nationalistic too (which is another anti Islamic concept).


    Qur’an 7:176

    Sahih International
    And if We had willed, we could have elevated him thereby, but he adhered [instead] to the earth and followed his own desire. So his example is like that of the dog: if you chase him, he pants, or if you leave him, he [still] pants. That is the example of the people who denied Our signs. So relate the stories that perhaps they will give thought.

    Muhsin Khan
    And had We willed, We would surely have elevated him therewith but he clung to the earth and followed his own vain desire. So his description is the description of a dog: if you drive him away, he lolls his tongue out, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls his tongue out. Such is the description of the people who reject Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.). So relate the stories, perhaps they may reflect.

    Pickthall
    And had We willed We could have raised him by their means, but he clung to the earth and followed his own lust. Therefor his likeness is as the likeness of a dog: if thou attackest him he panteth with his tongue out, and if thou leavest him he panteth with his tongue out. Such is the likeness of the people who deny Our revelations. Narrate unto them the history (of the men of old), that haply they may take thought.

    Yusuf Ali
    If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; So relate the story; perchance they may reflect.

    Shakir
    And if We had pleased, We would certainly have exalted him thereby; but he clung to the earth and followed his low desire, so his parable is as the parable of the dog; if you attack him he lolls out his tongue; and if you leave him alone he lolls out his tongue; this is the parable of the people who reject Our communications; therefore relate the narrative that they may reflect.

    Dr. Ghali
    And if We had decided, We would indeed have raised him thereby, but he clung to the earth and closely followed his prejudice. So the likeness of him is like the likeness of a dog: in case you burden it, it lolls (its tongue out), or (in case) you leave it, it lolls (its tongue out). That is the likeness of the people who have cried lies to Our signs. So narrate (these) narratives that possibly they would meditate..

    Qur’an 7:177

    Sahih International
    How evil an example [is that of] the people who denied Our signs and used to wrong themselves.

    Muhsin Khan
    Evil is the likeness of the people who reject Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses and signs, etc.), and used to wrong their ownselves.

    Pickthall
    Evil as an example are the folk who denied Our revelations, and were wont to wrong themselves.

    Yusuf Ali
    Evil as an example are people who reject Our signs and wrong their own souls.

    Shakir
    Evil is the likeness of the people who reject Our communications and are unjust to their own souls.

    Dr. Ghali
    An odious likeness (is the likeness) of the people who have cried lies to Our signs, and to themselves they were doing injustice..

    Qur’an 2:65

    Sahih International
    And you had already known about those who transgressed among you concerning the sabbath, and We said to them, "Be apes, despised."

    Muhsin Khan
    And indeed you knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday). We said to them: "Be you monkeys, despised and rejected."

    Pickthall
    And ye know of those of you who broke the Sabbath, how We said unto them: Be ye apes, despised and hated!

    Yusuf Ali
    And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

    Shakir
    And certainly you have known those among you who exceeded the limits of the Sabbath, so We said to them: Be (as) apes, despised and hated.

    Dr. Ghali
    And you already know of (the ones) of you who transgressed the Sabbath; so We said to them "Be apes, (miserably) spurned."

    Qur'an 25:44

    Sahih International
    Or do you think that most of them hear or reason? They are not except like livestock. Rather, they are [even] more astray in [their] way.

    Muhsin Khan
    Or do you think that most of them hear or understand? They are only like cattle; nay, they are even farther astray from the Path. (i.e. even worst than cattle).

    Pickthall
    Or deemest thou that most of them hear or understand? They are but as the cattle - nay, but they are farther astray?

    Yusuf Ali
    Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle;- nay, they are worse astray in Path.

    Shakir
    Or do you think that most of them do hear or understand? They are nothing but as cattle; nay, they are straying farther off from the path.

    Dr. Ghali
    Or even do you reckon that most of them hear or consider? Decidedly they are (nothing) except as the cattle. (Ancam inclues cattle, camels, sheep and goats) No indeed, they have erred further from the way.

    As for the Arab thing, I thought I'd let actual muslims comment on that.

    http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-8272.html

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #52 - January 27, 2014, 12:37 AM

    ^

    So this is the hadith that person is talking about?
    Quote
    'Verily Allah has chosen Kinanah from the son of Isma`il, and He has chosen Quraysh from among Kinanah and He has chosen Hashim from among Quraysh and He has chosen me from the Bani Hashim.'

    It looks to me like it's comparing and "holifying" some 7th century Arabian tribes. And speaking in biblical terms.

    But yeah, people's perception is their reality. And if this^ hadith is taken as seriously as the one I quoted earlier, then let the confusion begin. I think the place you live in will determine which ideas you end up following.

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #53 - January 27, 2014, 12:38 AM

    @quod, not sure what all those quotes are about, but I wasn't specific: I was surprised at the "Arabs are better than everyone" thing. No idea what the rest is about.

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #54 - January 27, 2014, 01:01 AM

    Sorry Jila, I thought you were also asking about the "the worst muslim is better than the best non muslim and non believers are cattle" thing as well.

    Yeah, the Arabs being the best thing is a few hadiths (I don't remember reading it in the quran). It's not accepted by all but it does seem to be a trend in some places that there's an Arab superiority thing to an extent.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #55 - January 27, 2014, 01:21 AM

    Oh yeah, no doubt that Muslims are the best of all humans.

    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #56 - January 30, 2014, 09:57 PM

    I think it all depends on the background for example: I lived in the UAE majorty of my life, and people there are raciest to an extent Smiley, but i'm from Somalia and Somalis in general are raciest themselves towards other Africans.
     

    Doth some one say that there be gods above? There are not; no, there are not. Let no fool, Led by the old false fable, thus deceive you.
    --Euripides (480 BC - 408 BC)
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #57 - January 30, 2014, 10:47 PM

    Quote
    Neither is their preference for white people over black people, nor for black people over white people. Preference is only through righteousness.


    What is this from?  When is it dated?  Is it a reasonable translation?

    Many years ago I studied the history of racism and was taught it is quite a recent concept, post enlightenment. 

    The classic example is one of the Roman Emperors - Septimus Severus?  It wasn't on the agenda then.

    The classic

    Quote
    Galatians 3:28
    New International Version (NIV)
    28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


    And an earlier alexandrian version do not mention race.

    Racism isn't an Islamic invention is it?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #58 - January 31, 2014, 12:10 AM

    I think it all depends on the background for example: I lived in the UAE majorty of my life, and people there are raciest to an extent Smiley, but i'm from Somalia and Somalis in general are raciest themselves towards other Africans.

    This is excatly why I think people should relax a bit about racism. Let good laws take care of flagrant abuses. Let familiarity, good manners and common sense neuter most prejudice. Shrug off the rest.
  • Racism among fellow Muslims
     Reply #59 - January 31, 2014, 01:24 AM

    Issues like race in antiquity were about culture, religion and ethnic groupings not colour. Many cultures were very open about religion, Rome was more tolerant than many nations until the age of enlightenment. The isolationist nature of the big 3 A's is what I believe started the major change from a cultural conflict into one of skin colour or race based on ethnic groupings.
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