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 Topic: Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says

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  • Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says
     OP - May 01, 2013, 11:14 PM
    Very interesting article here: Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says

    A lot of people don't give bees any thought, but they are actually crucial for agriculture. Basically, no bees equal no food. This is not good.

    Bees in Europe and the UK are in decline, which has scientists and agriculturalists rightly concerned. Over here in Australia, we've so far missed out on your wonderful bee massacre, but are watching developments very closely. Neonicotinoids (the insecticides in question) have recently been in the news here too.

    The pesticides in question were developed with the specific aim of having high toxicity for target species (insects) but low toxicity for mammals (us). The problem is that being systemic, they get right through the plant, inlcuding into pollen and nectar. This means they hit non-target species like bees. The doses concerned don't seem to be lethal, and therefore didn't put up any warning flags during the testing and approval phase.

    However, further testing has found that they apparently cause brain damage and reduced fertility in bees. Bees don't have much in the way of brains to start with, so can't afford much in the way of brain damage before things go south in a big way. Also, the compounds concerned get into waterways and are persistent in the soil, meaning loads are likely to build up over time. All in all, a major fuckup waiting to happen.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says
     Reply #1 - May 01, 2013, 11:32 PM
    "If the bee disappears from the surface of the earth, man would have no more than four years to live"
    - Albert Einstein
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says
     Reply #2 - May 01, 2013, 11:38 PM
    I think the major fuck up may have gone beyond the point of no return over here.  Bees used to be a common sight here, but in the last few years  they've become so uncommon that we all stop and point on the rare occasion that we see one.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says
     Reply #3 - May 01, 2013, 11:46 PM
    Imagine if the end of the world came about not by nuclear war or death from space, but by something as unassuming as bees becoming extinct.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says
     Reply #4 - May 01, 2013, 11:50 PM
    I don't think bee extinction could cause the end of the world, but it could feasibly cause the wipeout of the human race. 
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says
     Reply #5 - May 02, 2013, 12:54 AM
    Yeah, that's what I meant.

    "Just think about your breakfast; if there were no bees, there would be no orange juice on your table, there would be no jam, no honey. I've been to China, to Szechuan, where the bee population was wiped out, and you see men on ladders there using paintbrushes to pollinate the fruit trees. Can you imagine the cost of our food if we had to do that all ourselves? You'd only be able to afford half an olive on a pizza, and the mozzarella – which comes from cows raised on [bee-pollinated] alfalfa – would be absolutely prohibitive."
    - Tim Lovett, a bee guy.

    I just read the list of foods that rely on bees. It's actually really fucking scary. It's, like, everything. The staples of our diet. Apples, pears, citrus fruits, carrots, onions, cabbage, broccoli, leeks, garlic, tea... the list goes on. Plus the 430 million + tons of cow food per year. So no beef, milk, cheese. It would be impossible to replace that sheer volume of produce by artificial means. How on earth could you do it with all our technological marvels?

    I mean Jesus, think about the panic buying. If the bees die out, it's gonna be Mad Max: Beyond Fucked.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says
     Reply #6 - May 02, 2013, 07:00 AM
    Yup, and yet there are still idiots claiming that we can't ban neonicotinoids because....


    wait for it....


    it would be bad for the economy. D'oh.

    ETA: Neonicotinoids aren't the only problem. They're just one significant problem. The really bizarre thing is that testing in the US has found that using them on soya bean crops doesn't do a damned thing to increase crop health or yield.

    I'm not sure if this applies to all crops, and frankly it would probably be a case by case thing, but it seems clear that neonicotinoids are being used in circumstances where they give no benefit at all. In such situations, the only results are that the company producing them makes money out of the farmers, and the farmers make less profit, and beneficial insects (of which bees are by no means the only example) are put at risk.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says
     Reply #7 - May 02, 2013, 07:55 AM
    Ahhh agricultural inputs, lovely things they are.
  • Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says
     Reply #8 - May 02, 2013, 09:35 AM
    This is a very important and widely overlooked issue.
  • Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says
     Reply #9 - May 02, 2013, 11:35 AM
    A principle of European law is the precautionary principle - don't take unnecessary risks.

    Strange how UK govt and business ignores another basic principle.....

    Oh look - a regulation - evil - get rid of it! 

    Why haven't they abolished seat belts, driving tests, car safety standards, aircraft safety standards?  are they not all evil restictions on freedom?
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says
     Reply #10 - May 02, 2013, 01:02 PM
    Just read a detailed article in the Metro paper about how drastically bee populations have decreased and the problems that come with this.

    Just a few years ago i'd see numerous bees surrounding a flowery plant. This year I have seen none.
  • Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says
     Reply #11 - May 02, 2013, 02:55 PM
    It definitely is not just the pesticides, it is way more multi-factorial than that, including the lack of a variety of nectar and pollen for the bee's diets, which scuppers their immune response as are malnourished. It is a bit like a human just eating rabbits, they are not bad to eat but if you just ate it you would get ill.

     
  • Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says
     Reply #12 - May 02, 2013, 02:57 PM
    Humans will be facing a similar multi-factor domino effect if bees die out.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says
     Reply #13 - May 02, 2013, 05:38 PM
    Indeed! Hopefully I can feed this policy into one of my exams later in the month about the need for policy controlling stuff like inputs and also social work involving getting locals involved in conservation work through sustainable agriculture and forest use in terms of answering the question 'Is conservation biology all ecology?', the answer is no no no. Need policy and to get people on side and also research into how to control crop pests without using many inputs and also to help crops grow without using so many fertilisers.
  • Bees need Europe's pesticide ban, whatever the UK says
     Reply #14 - May 22, 2013, 10:54 PM
    Hey this is sorta good news (if you don't look too closely).

    Bees start to buck trend of decline in UK wildlife

    Quote
    It has been a mixed bag for wildlife this week. In a rare piece of good news for pollinators, a study has shown that, in Europe, wild insects and plants are bouncing back after decades of decline.

    But the outlook isn't as bright for wildlife generally, at least in the UK, where 60 per cent of the wild species surveyed have declined over the past 50 years, finds a separate study published by 25 wildlife organisations.

    The pollinator study, led by Bill Kunin of the University of Leeds, UK, found that the years between 1950 and 1989 saw drastic decreases in the richness of species in Belgium, the UK and the Netherlands. But since 1990, lost or new species have reappeared at sampled sites indicating that, for many, the decline has halted or even begun to reverse.

    The diversity of bumblebee species had tumbled by 30 per cent, but it has now stabilised in Belgium and the Netherlands, and slowed to a 10 per cent decline in the UK between 1990 and 2009.

    The range of solitary bee species – so called because they don't live in colonies – rose over the same period by 10 per cent in the UK and 7 per cent in the Netherlands, and hoverfly and wild plant species stopped declining.

    Butterflies haven't fared as well – and are still declining in all three countries. Honeybees weren't included in the study of wild insects because they are considered domesticated.

    More on the link.

    Funny how the more humans you get, the less other critters you get.  Tongue
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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