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 Topic: The Makkan Cash Cow

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  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     OP - May 09, 2013, 10:16 PM
    So, the recent conversation about a certain Makkan cave sparked in my memory the acute sense of unease that I felt about the Saudi cash cow that is Makkah.

    It is no secret that the pilgrimage industry has been huge business for the Hijaz region since times untold. It is also not unknown that the sitting caliph, sultans, and kings throughout the ages have flexed their authority through their maintenance of the holy sites.

    What is happening in Saudi Arabia today, however, is an unprecedented example of complete exploitation. We’ve all seen the pictures of the shiny, glass and steel monstrosities that have forever ruined any charm Makkah might have once known. As a Muslim, these modern skyscrapers, flashy hotels, and mega shopping malls were disturbing to see in what was supposedly the most sacred place on earth.

    Beyond that, the sacred sites themselves are littered with some of the worst examples of Saudi vanity. The Saudi coat of arms is shamelessly flaunted in almost every possible way through out the mosque, even on the carpets.

    One morning, sitting in front of the Kaa’bah on one of said carpets, I found myself trying to decipher the verses of calligraphy engraved in gold upon the kiswah.  I got excited each time I could make out, through all the fancy loops and turns, a verse that I had memorized. Doing this, I made out the following phrase hanging right by the door of the Kaa’bah:

    صنعت هذه الكسوة في عهد خادم الحرمين الشريفين الملك فهد بن عبد العزيز آل سعود

    “This Kiswah was made during the reign of the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, King Fahd Bin Abdul Aziz Al-Saud."

    There was already a King Fahd Gate, a King Fahd Stair Case, and a King Fahd Escalator in the King Fahd section of the mosque, but a King Fahd Kiswah? Surely this was taking it a bit too far.

    Even on this, the most sacred spot on earth, the first house of worship appointed for mankind, full of blessing and guidance for all the worlds, we were subjected to the vanity of the Saudi regime.

    This stuck with me. I questioned whether or not the Saudis themselves even believed that this was the house of God that they were administering.

    My question is, with all of the destruction of historical sites, the blatant examples of Saudi narcissism, and the Las Vegas-ification of “the most holy city in the world.” Why aren’t Muslims making more of a fuss?
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #1 - May 09, 2013, 10:30 PM
    Those skyscrapers are so vulgar, so ugly and so dwarfing of the kaaba its almost as if the worst enemy of Islam designed it all.

    Perhaps Muslims aren't fussed because they equate all that money and steel with a feeling of a display of phallic pride and power, insecurity in the face of the modern world? Its almost like a middle aged man who buys a ferrari and dresses in gold chains?

    Anyway it was always a site of commerce. It was coveted because it attracted people. Even so the vulgarity of it all seems taken to another level
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #2 - May 09, 2013, 10:34 PM
    But who does that to their most revered historical/religious site? That’s like India building a sky scraper directly behind the Taj Mahal or the French building a 7 star hotel that dwarfs the Eiffel Tower.

    What’s worse is that the rest of the city of Makkah looks like a third world mess. 
    Attached image is missing * Abraj_Al_Bait.jpg (90.34 KB, 800x600 - viewed 644 times.)
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #3 - May 09, 2013, 10:47 PM
    Quote
    That’s like India building a sky scraper directly behind the Taj Mahal or the French building a 7 star hotel that dwarfs the Eiffel Tower.

    The difference is they don't mandate their entire following/population to make a pilgrimage to the site all at the same time. And they don't revere those sites to the same degree Islam reveres Makkah. If you tell your followers their sins will be wiped clean from performing hajj, you better be prepared to accommodate a mass gathering.

    But anyway, most people I knew who went to hajj or umrah didn't treat it as a solemn religious rite, but rather as a vacation.
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #4 - May 09, 2013, 11:05 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on May 09, 2013, 10:34 PM
    But who does that to their most revered historical/religious site? That’s like India building a sky scraper directly behind the Taj Mahal or the French building a 7 star hotel that dwarfs the Eiffel Tower.

    What’s worse is that the rest of the city of Makkah looks like a third world mess.  



    Its worse than that. The Taj Mahal or Eiffel tower isn't a holy site. The equivalent would be to build skyscrapers and Las Vegas hotels in Benares overlooking the Ganges, or overlooking the Sikh Golden Temple, or in Bethlehem, Jerusalem at the wailing wall, Bodh Gaya where Buddha became enlightened. Or overlooking St Peters Square in the Vatican.

    No other religion does this or would do it. To build on such a scale of monstrosity in the most sacred space in the universe according to them.

    Its incredible.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #5 - May 09, 2013, 11:44 PM
    It just brings all the sleaziness of Gulf Arab decadence right up to the house of Allah, like they just couldn't live without it for just a few days.
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #6 - May 09, 2013, 11:53 PM
    Quote from: Luthiel on May 09, 2013, 10:47 PM
    The difference is they don't mandate their entire following/population to make a pilgrimage to the site all at the same time. And they don't revere those sites to the same degree Islam reveres Makkah. If you tell your followers their sins will be wiped clean from performing hajj, you better be prepared to accommodate a mass


    I don't buy for a minute that it is about accommodation. Most pilgrims cannot afford to stay there. They could have spent that money revamping all the dilapidated hotels throughout the city where most of the people stay. Instead, they chose to cater to the filthy rich who could afford a luxury spiritual experience, complete with all you can eat chocolate buffets and 24 hour room service and shopping as they look down on all their poorer brothers and sisters.

    This of course lines the pockets of the Saudi princes and shows the world just how long Saudi Arabia's metaphorical dick really is.
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #7 - May 10, 2013, 06:24 AM
    Quote from: billy on May 09, 2013, 10:30 PM
    Those skyscrapers are so vulgar, so ugly and so dwarfing of the kaaba its almost as if the worst enemy of Islam designed it all.

    Perhaps Muslims aren't fussed because they equate all that money and steel with a feeling of a display of phallic pride and power, insecurity in the face of the modern world? Its almost like a middle aged man who buys a ferrari and dresses in gold chains?

    Anyway it was always a site of commerce. It was coveted because it attracted people. Even so the vulgarity of it all seems taken to another level


    i would concur with this point, 'opiate of the masses  etc...

    Additionally it would probably be heterodox to criticise the sight of haj hence why populist islam is not an ascetic spiritual practice but a ritualistic one.
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #8 - May 10, 2013, 07:53 AM
    Not so much the building of the skyscrapers, but the fact that they are destroying buildings from the time of the prophet, historical sites that belong to all humans as our shared cultural history, that is heart-wrecking.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #9 - May 10, 2013, 08:46 AM
    Quote from: Luthiel on May 09, 2013, 10:47 PM
    The difference is they don't mandate their entire following/population to make a pilgrimage to the site all at the same time. And they don't revere those sites to the same degree Islam reveres Makkah. If you tell your followers their sins will be wiped clean from performing hajj, you better be prepared to accommodate a mass gathering.


    They could have built decent, affordable hotels outside Mecca for the masses and an efficient transit route into the city if that was the case and left it at that.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #10 - May 10, 2013, 12:27 PM
    My brother is a fan of Hamza Yusuf, and recently when the subject of that ugly clock tower in Mekkah came up, he mentioned that Hamza Yusuf said that it was predicted in one of those end times hadith, something about a building overshadowing the Kabah.
    My brother was like... see? another divine prediction coming true.  I was like... oh so those Saudis saw this hadith and said "We can do this, it's so easy to fulfill this prediction and thus prove for the masses how true the hadiths are."

    It's like self fulfilling prophecies, that's why they love building tall skyscrapers in muslim lands.
    The only one they don't seem to encourage is the one about female singers and big crowds listening to them.
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #11 - May 10, 2013, 02:16 PM
    Quote
    looks like


    ?

    It looks like catholic kitsch has a competitor! 

    But is Blackpool uglier than Monaco?
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #12 - May 10, 2013, 02:31 PM
    That tower is such a disgrace to the Arabian and Islamic culture.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #13 - May 10, 2013, 03:56 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on May 09, 2013, 11:53 PM
    I don't buy for a minute that it is about accommodation. Most pilgrims cannot afford to stay there. They could have spent that money revamping all the dilapidated hotels throughout the city where most of the people stay. Instead, they chose to cater to the filthy rich who could afford a luxury spiritual experience, complete with all you can eat chocolate buffets and 24 hour room service and shopping as they look down on all their poorer brothers and sisters.

    Yeah, that's kind of what I meant, that most people I knew treated hajj and umrah as a vacation. It's the ultimate Muslim getaway (look how pious I am!), and there are plenty of wealthy Muslims to fill it up each year. But you're right, I've also heard stories of the utterly dismal conditions most people experience there. One of the first things I heard about it was from my American friend, who was sickened that the public restrooms in the most holy place on earth could be so disgusting. She couldn't find a place to make wudu that didn't make her feel less clean than before she used it. I regret missing my opportunity to go and experience it myself, but then I also think I'm probably better off.
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #14 - May 10, 2013, 06:34 PM
    I’m not even against the revamping and modernization of Makkah. As a city that caters to millions of visitors each year, it badly needs it.

    The Saudis seem to have put flexing their clout and lining their pockets above providing a pleasant experience for all who visit.

    It is true that they spend a lot on the maintenance and security of the holy site, but Makkah as a city is in deplorable condition. Apart from the towers immediately around the mosque, the rest of the city is full crappy old buildings. One of those buildings collapsed several years ago, killing a multitude of pilgrims.

    As it stands now, when over a million people leave the mosque, they are fed into a maze of towering skyscrapers and treacherous roads. There are no pedestrian only areas once you leave out of the mosque complex. It’s a disaster.

    As billy said, they could have built lots of affordable, decent hotels, on a well planned grid, had dedicated pedestrian areas around the mosque, and built a reliable transit system that caters to the millions of car-less pilgrims.
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #15 - May 11, 2013, 12:22 AM
    I remember being in Mecca exactly this time last year. I remember clearly being dumbstruck by the penis of a building that you guys are talking about. I felt the building was disrespectful, brash, unnecessary, and contrary to other facets of Saudi policy. Why more people who actually believed in Islam didn't feel the same as me about this alien structure, remained a complete mystery to me. So thanks to Billy and HM and Luthiel etc for offering some possible reasons why they have done what they have done, and why Muslims have seemingly accepted this horrendous graffiti in their stride.


    My question is this: why has Medina remained relatively safe from having something similar thrust upon it? Medina looks much more dignified as a result, even after the recent bout of modernisation. All buildings remain reassuringly below the height of The Nabi Masjid there, and therefore nothing outshines the mosque of the holy one. Which, to me, seems fitting. Overall, the city seems well planned, well structured, serene and about as picturesque as something in a barren landscape can get. Are different people responsible for overseeing the paths that the two cities have taken? Is there more space to play with in Medina? Has Mecca's claustrophobic landscape meant that the only way was skywards, in terms of development?

    Hi
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #16 - May 11, 2013, 12:31 AM
    (HM wishes he was on his laptop so he could type more about the differences between Makkah and Madinah.) Much of it is for the reasons you give, musivore. A modern city planning system was used to lay out the grid for Madinah (My old landlord there used to work for the city planning office, he told me that the initial proposals were even more visitor friendly than what is there today.)



  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #17 - May 11, 2013, 12:40 AM
    Ok thanks.

    Why couldn't something similar have been attempted at Mecca?
    Hi
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #18 - May 11, 2013, 12:42 AM
    Because it's Saudi Arabia.
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #19 - May 11, 2013, 12:49 AM
    Forgive me HM, my brain doesn't function at the same proficient frequency that you're does. I don't get what you just said?  Surely Saudi policy, in both Mecca and Medina,  is ultimately dictated by the same despot who sits on his golden throne in Riyadh (or wherever)?
    Hi
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #20 - May 11, 2013, 01:19 AM
    Can you point to any other logical thing Saudi Arabia does?
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #21 - May 11, 2013, 01:41 AM
    My guess would be simply because its Mecca that has the prestige, the focus, the attention, it is the pre-eminent icon, whilst Medina is secondary, so has been spared the phallic symbolism overload.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #22 - May 11, 2013, 06:34 AM
    Quote
    Can you point to any other logical thing Saudi Arabia does?


    I am going to have to agree with Musivore and do a Spock - that is not logical Captain.

    What do we have, the eighth wealthiest nation on the planet, a religion claiming it is the perfect message of Allah, a history of getting some things right in terms of how things look and feel - OK, the gold on the dome of the rock was only added in the 1930's,

    and a very important city using trucks as its main sewage disposal method.

    Is consistency against Islam?
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #23 - May 11, 2013, 09:24 AM
    moi sometimes your comments here are incredibly obtuse.

    Its not difficult to understand what HM said in the context of Saudi Arabia and its leaders.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #24 - May 11, 2013, 12:22 PM
    It doesn't make sense!  Many of the leaders are very well educated at top world universities, they have the world's resources, and yet....

    The Blackpool v Monaco comment is asking are we looking at a class distinction?  Funfairs versus stately homes?
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #25 - May 11, 2013, 01:26 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3Fm-1NS9lY

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWqNCqcENI
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #26 - August 26, 2013, 09:39 PM
    Taking a look at some of the massive expansion that is taking place in and around Masjid Al Haram. I realize I might be more interested in this topic than some other members given the time I spent there, but this latest project is certainly the most attention worthy and ambitious.

    While I’m sure that lots of factors such as crowd control, accessibility, heat management, and aesthetics were taken into account, I still can’t help but cringe at how hideous the whole thing looks.

    It’s also interesting to see that they are actually adapting the original Saudi expansion, which anyone who has been there can tall you was extremely claustrophobic.

    http://dobuy.co.uk/cbhuk/?attachment_id=3365






  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #27 - August 26, 2013, 09:57 PM
    Quote from: z10 on May 10, 2013, 07:53 AM
    Not so much the building of the skyscrapers, but the fact that they are destroying buildings from the time of the prophet, historical sites that belong to all humans as our shared cultural history, that is heart-wrecking.


    This is spot on.

    It appears as though the Saudis have little regard for history...particularly pre-Islamic history.

    Many an archaeologist has complained of their inability to excavate around the region and get some insight as to what pre-Islamic Arabia may have been like and the formation of Islam.

    That parts of the mosque were bulldozed, the grave uprooted and some important artefacts destroyed is a travesty for the whole of humanity.

    This is not just muslim history, it's OUR history. And it is being pimped out for the sake of vanity and £££££'s.

    I dare say that the lack of any vocal, serious reaction from Muslims is because you do not criticise the Saudi's because that's where the House of Allah is and they are able to speak the Prophet's language. Subhan'Allah!
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #28 - August 26, 2013, 10:04 PM
    I’m not sure how much of what was purported to have existed from the time of the Prophet actually did. From what I understand, many of the sites such as the “prophet’s birth spot” and “homes of the companions” were actually built much later on as deliberate tourist traps. Even in some of the pre-Wahhabi invasion images I have seen, it’s obvious that the shrines (usually huge mausoleums and tombs) were later additions. In any event, the whole thing is rather disheartening.   
  • Re: The Makkan Cash Cow
     Reply #29 - August 26, 2013, 10:42 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on August 26, 2013, 09:57 PM
    I dare say that the lack of any vocal, serious reaction from Muslims is because you do not criticise the Saudi's because that's where the House of Allah is and they are able to speak the Prophet's language. Subhan'Allah!

    Perhaps it also stems from helplessness or futility? I don't think the Saudi royals give a rat's ass what anybody else thinks, does, or says. They have extremely deep pockets, and operate in Saudi Arabia with complete impunity. Nobody can make them do anything--they have free reign, in every sense of the word, to do anything within the borders of their country, and they aren't really accountable to anybody.
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