Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →
↑ ↓
CEMB → Forum → Life, The Universe & Everything → Science → Evolution

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts

New Britain
Today at 03:10 PM
German nationalist party ...
Today at 01:11 PM
Do humans have needed kno...
Yesterday at 03:13 PM
Lights on the way
by akay
February 05, 2025, 10:04 PM
Gaza assault
February 05, 2025, 10:04 AM
AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
February 03, 2025, 09:25 AM
The origins of Judaism
by zeca
February 02, 2025, 04:29 PM
Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
February 01, 2025, 11:48 PM
Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
February 01, 2025, 07:29 PM
اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
February 01, 2025, 11:55 AM
News From Syria
by zeca
December 28, 2024, 12:29 AM
Mo Salah
December 26, 2024, 05:30 AM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Evolution

 (Read 20372 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Evolution
     OP - June 03, 2013, 11:57 AM
    Is it absolutely 100% impossible to reconcile human evolution and Islamic belief? Yasir Qadhi seems to think so... interestingly he doesn't mention the 60 cubits tall Hadith.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV3qKNirs38
    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Evolution
     Reply #1 - June 03, 2013, 12:20 PM
    Quote from: jvegas on June 03, 2013, 11:57 AM
    Is it absolutely 100% impossible to reconcile human evolution and Islamic belief? Yasir Qadhi seems to think so... interestingly he doesn't mention the 60 cubits tall Hadith.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV3qKNirs38

    well why Islamic belief?  every religious belief that consider their respective silly books as word of god/allah will have same idea/attitude towards biological evolution.  

    In modern times, the problem is with  fools of Islam like Yasir Qadhi,  because they have big mouth and they know how to shout., Most of these high school dropouts or having high school science  background is, they look everything through Quranic glasses without knowing that Quran isa book of its time and  is nothing to do with Sciences and evolutionary biology.
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Evolution
     Reply #2 - June 03, 2013, 02:05 PM
    You might find this discussion interesting:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22541.msg648960#msg648960
  • Evolution
     Reply #3 - June 03, 2013, 02:31 PM
    This article by Skeptic Shaykh deals with Qadhi pretty definitively

    Quoting al-Ghazali on Yasir Qadhi Digging His Own Grave

    http://skepticshaykh.com/2013/01/yq-evolution/
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Evolution
     Reply #4 - June 03, 2013, 02:55 PM
    So why would God's final, clear, and authoritative revelation to mankind appear to be so at odds with scientific evidence, so much so that to reinterpret it causes so much trouble.

    Either a) God deliberately created the evidence and put it exactly where it would need to be in order to confuse and mislead people so that he could have an excuse to sadistically torture them,

    or b) the words are not really from God and are only the works of human beings with very limited knowledge.
  • Evolution
     Reply #5 - June 03, 2013, 06:48 PM
    i think you misheard or misunderstood what Qadhi said, he said as a muslim you can believe in general evolution, but not in "human evolution" ie human beings evolving from a prior species..
  • Evolution
     Reply #6 - June 03, 2013, 07:00 PM
    The same evidence that exists for general evolution also exists for human evolution. Human evolution does not exist in a bubble.
  • Evolution
     Reply #7 - June 03, 2013, 07:32 PM
    This is the one thing that is eating at me. The ethical stuff could be explained away I guess following mental gymnastics. But this is fundamental. Still having that nagging feeling that I could be wrong though.
    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Evolution
     Reply #8 - June 03, 2013, 07:43 PM
    Quote from: jvegas on June 03, 2013, 07:32 PM
    This is the one thing that is eating at me. The ethical stuff could be explained away I guess following mental gymnastics. But this is fundamental. Still having that nagging feeling that I could be wrong though.

    I still didn't get your point jvegas .. You mean to say this picture of Human evolution bothers you?

     

    If it is., well you are not alone there number is in billions., That is not a big deal . Any way this  is worth watching..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBxmuZJVenU
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Evolution
     Reply #9 - June 03, 2013, 08:00 PM
    Well I know this would be the end of my faith, the nagging feeling is that I COULD be wrong regarding reconciliation of evolution with faith.... and that Islam is true.
    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Evolution
     Reply #10 - June 03, 2013, 08:54 PM
    Evolution or not people change/grow and our religious lives change over time too. Chances are you can reconcile faith and evolution as many have before you but no, the case for a common ancestor with the other apes is overwhelmingly strong.
    I even know proper atheists who don't buy the human evolution.   mysmilie_977
    Here is one clip from a lecture that explains one specific transition that set us aside from those other apes (We are apes too).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk

    Proud ape!  Afro
  • Evolution
     Reply #11 - June 03, 2013, 09:33 PM
    Most people who claim that the theory of evolution is compatible with Islam, or indeed, people who reject the theory of evolution all together, seem to completely misunderstand the idea of evolution by natural selection.

    The theory of evolution proves that while genes mutate randomly, it is nature (environment, climate, food supply, predators, mating options, etc) that determines which mutations will prove beneficial for survival and will in turn be passed on to the next generation. I emphasize: nature determines this, and the sole outcome is survival of those most suited to survive. There is no other purpose.

    To assert that a conscious, supernatural being is behind the whole process, for the purpose of creating beings to worship him or to test who is good and who is bad or whatever, is in direct opposition to the theory of evolution by natural selection.

    To assert any purpose to evolution by natural selection other than survival of the fittest is to completely reject the evidence.

    On the same note, detractors of the theory of evolution love to say things like “A million chimps typing for a billion years would never produce the writings of Shakespeare.” This is true, but it is a false analogy. Again, it overlooks the role of natural selection in the evolutionary process. Sure, the chimps carelessly and haphazardly typing away may be a suitable analogy for random genetic mutation, but it completely ignores the role of natural selection. In order to take natural selection into account in this analogy, you would have to add an external element that would immediately kill any combinations the chimps typed that were not actual words.

    This external element would also pair words together such as nouns, adjectives, verbs, and adverbs, based on their ability to “survive” in a sentence. As these sentences got longer, this external element would also eliminate sentences that could not “survive” in a paragraph, and so on.

    While this would not produce the works of Shakespeare (Shakespeare is a deliberate work that one would expect to find from an intelligent composer with a set purpose) it would produce strange, bizarre, diverse, yet functioning works of literature. That is exactly what we find in the diversity of life on Earth.
  • Evolution
     Reply #12 - June 03, 2013, 09:56 PM
    My christian flatmate used the 747 tornado analogy.
    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Evolution
     Reply #13 - June 03, 2013, 11:35 PM
    the intro is kind of weird but this video cleared my doubt
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaqIWHeeJ30
     
    i study biology at Alevel and was kind of confused for a bit but this cleared my doubt and alhamdulilah i find it easy to believe in god

    because if god created the universe with all those stars that have enough energy to glow for 28 million years the why cant he create adam and eve/hawa

    plus there is no logical proof for god in christianity but for islam we have enough proof and i have talked to dozens of atheist and convinced them all of God its simple really

    ill summaries because it takes long to prove btw im going to use a deductive argument for all the people who live of empirical evidence

    1.the universe can 'pop' into existance and 2. it cannot just be...
    so it has to have a cause
    and the cause has to be infinite because then the two above has to be accepted so some where down the line of causes must be an infinite starting point. and this infinite starting point must have a will because since it is infinite it must have chosen for the universe to come to be and this infinite starting point with a will must have power and knowledge for the universe to exist with laws

    i hope thats enough for you Asalamu alaykum
    Smile Smiley
    its Sunnah
  • Evolution
     Reply #14 - June 03, 2013, 11:38 PM
    Quote from: DahirT on June 03, 2013, 11:35 PM
    plus there is no logical proof for god in christianity but for islam we have enough proof and i have talked to dozens of atheist and convinced them all of God its simple really

    Interesting. I'm an atheist. How would you convince me that your god exists?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Evolution
     Reply #15 - June 03, 2013, 11:39 PM
    Hamza has taught you well, grasshopper. Try it on me and see if you can get it to work.
  • Evolution
     Reply #16 - June 04, 2013, 12:01 AM
    popcorn
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Evolution
     Reply #17 - June 04, 2013, 12:25 AM
    Quote
    because if god created the universe with all those stars that have enough energy to glow for 28 million years the why cant he create adam and eve/hawa


    Of course God can create Adam and Eve/Hawa. He is magical and he can do anything.

    So ask yourself, while we know that God just has to snap his fingers and say “be” and things will magically poof into existence, why did he make the process of evolution by natural selection appear to be such a gradual, random, and natural process?

    Why did he make the genetic make up of Homo sapiens (that means humans) so similar to that of other primates?

    Why did he create the fossils of Homo hibilis, Homo erectus, and Homo ergaster and why did he introduce Homo sapiens into existence in sequence after them?

    It seems like he wants us to believe that humans evolved from those earlier species. Is he just playing a huge prank on us? Is he just planting evidence so that he can have an excuse to torture us in hell? So much for being all merciful.

    This Allah guy is an odd character indeed. He is so magical and so awesome and so powerful but he couldn’t think of a better way of doing things.
  • Evolution
     Reply #18 - June 04, 2013, 05:06 AM
    1. ofcause the main purpose of this life is to test us
    ''Who hath created life and death that He may try you which of you is best in conduct; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving'',
    Al-Mulk 67-2
    and this means we have to be able to learn and adapt to be tested and there is no problem with the small scale evolution but when the phylogeny is included thats when we reject.
    2 for this question ''Why did he make the genetic make up of Homo sapiens (that means humans) so similar to that of other primates? ''
    i dont know the wisdom of allah this is Ilman Ghaib
    but i think this is to ''fit'' into the society
    3. Cheesy this is where i ask you why cant the creator test his creation with this and the truth is that if the quran is true and it is the word of god then obviously it is a bigger proof then the fossils which are seperated out by thousands of years with no linkage
    ps you seem to hate the concept of hell well he isn't all loving like the christians say and he wont just take you into heaven because of this love it requires effort. and there is nothing wrong with that 
    Smile Smiley
    its Sunnah
  • Evolution
     Reply #19 - June 04, 2013, 05:48 AM
    Quote
    1. ofcause the main purpose of this life is to test us
    ''Who hath created life and death that He may try you which of you is best in conduct; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving'',
    Al-Mulk 67-2
    and this means we have to be able to learn and adapt to be tested and there is no problem with the small scale evolution but when the phylogeny is included thats when we reject.

     Honestly no one cares that you reject X or Y it's your reasoning that counts. Why the test? If Allah wants us to go to Jannah why the mouse maze, why not send us all to heaven in the first place?

    Quote
    2 for this question ''Why did he make the genetic make up of Homo sapiens (that means humans) so similar to that of other primates? ''
    i dont know the wisdom of allah this is Ilman Ghaib

     You're concession is accepted


    Quote
    but i think this is to ''fit'' into the society
    3.  this is where i ask you why cant the creator test his creation with this and the truth is that if the quran is true and it is the word of god then obviously it is a bigger proof then the fossils which are seperated out by thousands of years with no linkage
    ps you seem to hate the concept of hell well he isn't all loving like the christians say and he wont just take you into heaven because of this love it requires effort. and there is nothing wrong with that

     Then Allah is an asshole, and why should we worship an asshole? Because he's powerful? So are the tyrants in the Middle East but I don't see "true" Muslims claiming to worship the tyrants. So yes there is something wrong with an all powerful being that creates creatures only to demand them worship him. It sounds petty, pathetic, and weak. No? Inventing (imaginary) friends and making them obey you doesn't sound crazy?
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Evolution
     Reply #20 - June 04, 2013, 06:28 AM
    LOOL allah is what

    1.firstly God has given us freewill and is not unjust and just going to put people in hell and heaven he tests us repetitively

    2. didn't god give you a brain, why would god give me and you a brain to understand that God is cruel?

    3.the middle east tyrants didn't make us and they dont care about us so  Tongue
    Smile Smiley
    its Sunnah
  • Evolution
     Reply #21 - June 04, 2013, 06:52 AM
    what about making us means we have to follow what Allah says? that's just another attempt to say Allah is powerful so he have to obey him. I don't have to obey my parents merely because they gave me birth.
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Evolution
     Reply #22 - June 04, 2013, 07:31 AM
    obviously you have FREEWILL which means you can chose and im not allowed to force you but please think rationally and be openminded because at the end of the day being truthful leads to good whether its this religion or not
    please think carefully and dont make ''assumptions''

    plus from my beliefs since God created us he deserves our worship  and thats his rights.thats why imaan means the belief and worship of God
    just doing good deeds wont get you into heaven there needs to be belief Smiley
    Smile Smiley
    its Sunnah
  • Evolution
     Reply #23 - June 04, 2013, 08:51 AM
    Quote
    just doing good deeds wont get you into heaven there needs to be belief


    This just proves the unethical emptiness of Islam. What a pathetic, narcissistic god and a pathetic, narcissistic belief.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Evolution
     Reply #24 - June 04, 2013, 09:22 AM
    Quote from: DahirT on June 04, 2013, 07:31 AM
    obviously you have FREEWILL which means you can chose and im not allowed to force you but please think rationally and be openminded because at the end of the day being truthful leads to good whether its this religion or not
    please think carefully and dont make ''assumptions''

    plus from my beliefs since God created us he deserves our worship  and thats his rights.thats why imaan means the belief and worship of God
    just doing good deeds wont get you into heaven there needs to be belief Smiley


    Just because god created us he deserves our worship? I didn't ask to be created at any time so why should I worship god when he didn't ask me whether I wanted to be alive? It is a bit like saying I should worship or at least bow down to my parents cause they created me, this could not be further from the truth, if they deserve my respect I will give it to them but if not I will not. Creating something does not give you rights, treating that thing right should gain you respect, but in order for me to respect god if he exists he would have to do a far better job at protecting people.
  • Evolution
     Reply #25 - June 04, 2013, 12:42 PM
    This is like arguing with someone whose main stance is "If the Earth is spinning, how come we don't fly off? If it's round, how come people in Australia aren't upside down??"

    Quote
    3. this is where i ask you why cant the creator test his creation with this and the truth is that if the quran is true and it is the word of god then obviously it is a bigger proof then the fossils which are seperated out by thousands of years with no linkage ps you seem to hate the concept of hell well he isn't all loving like the christians say and he wont just take you into heaven because of this love it requires effort. and there is nothing wrong with that


    If you think "thousands of years" is anything significant in evolutionary terms, then you clearly know next to nothing about evolution. I suggest you read more. Seriously, it's good for you. There is a whole world of information out there far beyond anything the author of the quran could ever have even imagined (who was not a god by the way--sorry to break that to you.)

    Take your own advice and be open minded. I have read and studied the Quran, every bit of it, from suratul fatiha to suratun naas. I am certain it is not divine. Don't be spoon fed nonsense from these slick talking dawah con artists. If you are unsure about evolution, go to your local natural history museum and speak with an evolutionary biologist, an archeologist, or a curator. See the evidence for yourself. Read. Be intrigued. It is sad to see you turning off your curiosity and submitting your logic to the backward, vacuous teachings of the quran.

    As it relates too God's tests, suppose we are wrong. Does it really warrant the grotesque, sadistic torture described in the quran? Couldn't God just prove that he is Ar-Rahman by forgiving us for being flawed and ignorant, the way he created us?

    He doesn't have to admit people to Jannah, but why does he have to torture them for being wrong? He sounds like a sadist and a monster, a Muammar Gaddafi or a Saddam Hussein. Is that really the kind of god you worship?
  • Evolution
     Reply #26 - June 04, 2013, 01:02 PM
    Quote from: billy on June 03, 2013, 02:31 PM
    This article by Skeptic Shaykh deals with Qadhi pretty definitively

    Quoting al-Ghazali on Yasir Qadhi Digging His Own Grave

    http://skepticshaykh.com/2013/01/yq-evolution/

     


    woah Skeptic Shaykh's website is back up.   dance   dance  dance  dance


    Does that mean he's ready to come back and participate on CEMB ?

    This time I'm gonna dowload every article he posts.

    Skeptic Shakykh and Klingschor are the most comprehensive islam debunkers and their work needs to be preserved.



    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Evolution
     Reply #27 - June 04, 2013, 01:08 PM
    Some muslims say that the fossils being uncovered are remains of sabbath breakers who were turned into apes
    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Evolution
     Reply #28 - June 04, 2013, 01:12 PM
     Cheesy Shouldn't they all be found in Israel/Palestine then?
  • Evolution
     Reply #29 - June 04, 2013, 01:17 PM
    Quote from: jvegas on June 04, 2013, 01:08 PM
    Some muslims say that the fossils being uncovered are remains of sabbath breakers who were turned into apes

    Yeah, and I believe that given sufficient self-belief and heroic quantities of lubricant, I could shit out a live donkey. On the sabbath, too, if I'm feeling especially holy.

    Why do I never feature in their mythologies?  Cry
    Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »