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- Hosna
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OP - July 17, 2013, 08:30 PM

Hello everybody im hosna and i have been an apostate sens december 2012 i think. Not long after i had to
move to a speciell home for speciell women :p
I just moves to a new city and in to my own apartment 3 weeks ago.

Everytime i post in a thread on this forum it dies lol
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Reply #1 - July 17, 2013, 08:40 PM

Hi Hosna

Don't worry about threads dying. The action comes and goes around here.

I'm so glad to hear you're out on your own. Congrats! And welcome to the forum!

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Reply #2 - July 17, 2013, 08:42 PM

Welcome to the forum Hosna! Congrats on getting your independence.
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Reply #3 - July 17, 2013, 09:02 PM

Tjänare Hosna

Dansk her. I København Har aldrig været muslim men blev bare træt af den totalt uoplyste, hadefulde og ignorante (anti-)muslim-debat i Danmark og besluttede mig for at blive klogere. Og nu er jeg her

Her er en velkomst-papegøje til dig

I've read through your earlier posts - you must definitely have a story worthy of sharing if you dare to do so

Please note your e-mail is shown on your profile, if that might be an issue for your.

Bedste hilsener fra Danmark

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Reply #4 - July 17, 2013, 09:03 PM

Hello & Welcome

When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
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Reply #5 - July 17, 2013, 09:20 PM

Dom såkallade islam experterna i media kan inte mycket om islam. Min svenska lärare brukade säga till oss beslöjade tjejer att i koranen står det att alltid söka kunskap när vi inte ville delta i undervisning där det talades om sex osv
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Reply #6 - July 17, 2013, 09:24 PM

Hi Hosna

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Reply #7 - July 17, 2013, 09:44 PM

Hello everybody thanks for the warm welcome
I like being independent but at times it can be hard for example one day i was washing my face and had soap in my eyes and i coulnd turn the water on ... Shit was tuff.

I realised i had to run for it after i read the story of two norwegian girls at the age of 25-26 having to lie about were and what they were doing.

I am athiest in this town but i lie to my friends and tell them i fast and stuff. My family don't know but i intend to write them a letter when i feel stonger.
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Reply #8 - July 17, 2013, 10:19 PM

Quote from: Hosna on July 17, 2013, 09:20 PM
Dom såkallade islam experterna i media kan inte mycket om islam. Min svenska lärare brukade säga till oss beslöjade tjejer att i koranen står det att alltid söka kunskap när vi inte ville delta i undervisning där det talades om sex osv

People are - and I actually understand them, because the whole thing is so mentally foreign in this time and age in Scandinavia- so ignorant of what Islam and the more conservative dogmas do to our young population living forced by said dogmas - especially those who happened to be born with a vagina.

But I think I get your point - "experts" on Islam seem to be more into the spiritual sides at best and not the absolutism of the Qur'an and hadiths nor the enforcement of those "values" on the next generation. Please correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding of the above.

Also media here (at least in Denmark) is REALLY bad at telling people that muslim1 is not equal to muslim2. It goes totally binary. And then the fundamentalists move in: "You are not accepted in your country's society. They will never accept you. Come with us. We will show you the way to freedom".

Which is one of the reasons I am here. I know plenty of non-believing Muslims and they are intimidated by both the discourse in the media and the fundamentalists.

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Reply #9 - July 17, 2013, 10:36 PM

Yes you understud my point, its like they are hoping for reforme and asking why qouestions all the time when in islam the answer is because its what Dog wants. I remeber there was a debate on tv about islam and homosexuality and the host said something like "why cant u comprise if christanity can do it".
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Reply #10 - July 18, 2013, 01:50 AM

Hello Hosna and welcome. Unfortunately I don't speak Danish but hopefully that won't be a problem. The "Why can't you compromise if Christianity can do it" comment was interesting and worth thinking about. I would assume it's just that European (and more recently American/Australian/Japanese/Canadian and so on) culture are more open in recent decades to listening to the minority. It's hard to listen to the suffering of homosexuals and the love they have for each other and not be moved, and to think about your own beliefs and prejudices. It's called humanising. Once upon a time mixed race couples were looked down on. Nowadays the majority of people would be horrified to hear these views. I think we're becoming more adult as a society.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #11 - July 18, 2013, 01:51 AM

Sorry, I just checked. You spoke Swedish, not Danish.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #12 - July 18, 2013, 12:08 PM

Thanks for the welcome Quod Sum Eris.
I don't speak Danish eather so there is no need to apologize.

Christianity doesn't have the hadith and things of that nature. in islam there is a lot of statments as "This is the final shit, you don't need to look else where for guidance.

This, indeed, is the biggest favor from Allah to this Ummah, for He has completed their religion for them, and they, thus, do not need any other religion or any other Prophet except Muhammad . This is why Allah made Muhammad the Final Prophet and sent him to all humans and Jinn. Therefore, the permissible is what he allows, the impermissible is what he prohibits, the Law is what he legislates and everything that he conveys is true and authentic and does not contain lies or contradictions.
Quran 5:3
This makes it difficult for a reform to take place
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Reply #13 - July 18, 2013, 12:49 PM

From Leviticus in the Bible: A man shall not lie with a man as a woman. Very explicit. Yet Christianity compromised. A lot of Buddhists had similar beliefs, including the current Dali Lama. He spoke to gay people, listened to them, considered what they said, and set the precedent that homosexuals truly in love with each other should not be discriminated against. Some sects of Hinduism have also become very accepting. The laws of the Jews are almost identical to the laws of the Muslims, yet Israel has a thriving gay community. These are religions which, like Islam, have said it's not permissible. The followers of these religions believe that their holy books are the word of God and true to humanity forever. Yet they compromised. It didn't cost them their faith. I even once was on friendly terms with a man who happened to be a gay Catholic. I asked him how that worked, he said quite well.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #14 - July 18, 2013, 01:12 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on July 18, 2013, 01:51 AM
Sorry, I just checked. You spoke Swedish, not Danish.

Understandable assumption. Written Danish, Swedish and Norwegian are somewhat similar so with a little effort we can read each other's languages (as we did here). It is when we speak our respective languages we have no idea what the others are saying

If Hosna speak the Stockholm dialect it would be easy for me to understand her speak as I grew up with just one Danish and two Swedish TV-channels in the 70's and 80's (living in Greater Copenhagen, near the Swedish coast, so we could take the Swedish TV air signals).
However she would probably have a hard time understanding my Danish (Danes tend to cut their spoken words short and speak in short machine-gun bursts compared to Swedish).

However when I meet people from the southern part of Sweden (Skåne/Scania, old Danish hearthland - lost it in one of the gazillion Danish-Swedish wars) who grew up with Danish TV they understand everything I say and I have no idea what they are on about. One theory is that after the annexation they weren't allowed to speak Danish and they wouldn't speak Swedish, so they made up their own language

The Swedish spoken by some Finns (they learn Swedish in school for cultural and historical reasons and they have a Swedish minority) I also find very easy for me to understand.

When people ask me about learning the Scandinavian languages I always suggest them to start with Norwegian. The spelling is like Danish and the intonation and flow more like Swedish.

Quote from: Hosna on July 18, 2013, 12:08 PM
Christianity doesn't have the hadith and things of that nature. in islam there is a lot of statments as "This is the final shit, you don't need to look else where for guidance.
[...]
This makes it difficult for a reform to take place

Apparently some people are trying. I wonder if they will succeed. Someone allegedly Muslim guy (he is using a pseudonym) here in Denmark has just written a suggestion to reform the Qur'an, denounce Sharia and move (Danish) Muslimhood into the 21st century.

Also see zeca's post here about a Muslim reformist movement in Turkey.

Personally I wish people would just say: "Well - 6000 years of organised religion enforcing its dogmas on people who didn't want it. That must be enough. Fun while it lasted" and move on.

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Reply #15 - July 18, 2013, 05:25 PM

Its nice what the man in turkey is trying to do.
I think if the muslim majorite or muslim scholors accepted that its okej to be gay in islam, it would lead to disaster, muslims would walk away from the religion or kill the scholors

Qouad i havent read the bible but im sure it Has not banned being gay and adding new things to the religion in the same way as islam.

Aishah narrated that:
The Messenger of Allah () said: "Whoever innovates something in this matter of ours (i.e. Islam) that is not part of it, will have it rejected." (Sahih)

“So-and-so sends his Salam to you.” He said: “I have heard that he has introduced innovations (into Islam). If he has indeed introduced innovations, then do not convey my Salam to him, for I heard the Messenger of Allah () say: ‘There will be among my nation – or among this nation – transformations, the earth collapsing, and Qadhf.’ That was concerning Ahlul-Qadar.”

"The Messenger of Allah () said: 'Allah will not accept any fasting, prayer, charity, Hajj, 'Umrah, Jihad, or any other obligatory or voluntary action from a person who follows innovation (Bid'ah). He comes out of Islam like a hair pulled out of dough." (Maudu')
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Reply #16 - July 21, 2013, 03:05 AM

From one newbie to another: welcome, Hosna!

I was in Stockholm once, but not long enough to really learn anything about the culture. Scandinavia has always fascinated me, and I hope to learn at least one Scandinavian language someday. Anyway, it's interesting to hear about the situation of Islam in Sweden.
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Reply #17 - July 21, 2013, 03:51 AM

Quote from: Hosna on July 18, 2013, 05:25 PM

Qouad i havent read the bible but im sure it Has not banned being gay and adding new things to the religion in the same way as islam.

Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Romans 1:26 - For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature.

Romans 1:27 - And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

Just a few examples from the Bible.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #18 - July 27, 2013, 08:01 PM

Yikes christanity is evil, but my friends deny that this is in there scripture.

Thanks iceman
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Reply #19 - July 27, 2013, 08:05 PM

Like I said, Christianity banned homosexuality. They compromised.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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