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Theme Changer

 Topic: Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.

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  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     OP - August 10, 2013, 05:33 PM

    I think I've done it right, not sure, my first experience in any type of forum.

    Oh and Hi!

    I'm Jibbs, I joined during Ramadan and kind of regretting not calling myself 'Hungry Hippo'  Over react
    I think I read an introduction daily on this forum during Ramadan, my "holy reading", but I'm not sure where to start now. Well the straw that broke the camels back to join the forum was Seekers intro ( Hi Seeker!), I thought how I feel was very similar to what he described so another lost one.

    I am fucking lost!!! Maybe some background might help. I haven't always been Muslim, well I have one Christian parent and one "Muslim" parent but I was baptized and neither give a shit about religion its just mainly cultural and I wasn't really in touch with the Muslim side. So I was mainly agnostic growing up and believed I could merge the good parts of religion but didn't believe in organized religion. Then I met a Muslim guy when I was 18 and he didn't really take religion seriously, you know drink, smoke, bang but refuse pork and fast most of Ramadan kind of guys. I was with him for 3 years and he always talked about his intention to practice when he was older, so for some reason he used to occasionally talk to me about religion and I used to think it was bullshit and we used to argue about it, that's when I started researching about it partly to help him and partly to refute him with his own material. I really loved this guy and thought we'd be together forever but obviously he couldn't marry me cos I didn't really believe in anything so that ended.

    Like a moron I started having a sort of thing with another Muslim guy in uni, now this guy was so far from Islam so it was really unexpected when he came back to uni with a full grown beard, stopped MOST of the haram stuff he was doing, but he was preaching to me and his other bit. So this took me a bit aback like why would these people give up their freedom for this, there must be something to it. So I researched it more and he introduced me to his family and these other sisters blah blah, long story short, me and his other bit converted to Islam. I was sort of engaged for most of my time as a Muslim, I didn't get married, but I went the whole hog, jabbed up, prayed 5 times a day, fasted Ramadan, sunnah fasts, went to every talk available, active member of the dawah brigade, volunteering, tried to learn Arabic, got rid of most of my friends. I genuinely whole heartedly believed in it, even the stuff that rings alarm bells in your head. I was the if there is sufficient signs to believe in Islam then my knowledge is fallible and God is not, so its my lack of understanding and my culture which makes this seem odd to me, kind of person. I just wanted to be a better person and became a bit of a knob in the process.

    So I became Muslim in early 2010 and last year Ramadan, I don't know what happened it was like a bubble burst, I didn't see everything how I did, I could see what I looked like from an outside perspective. The doubts started and I was thinking how can the doubts start in Ramadan , shaytaan is locked up. It was pretty mild and I brushed it aside, cried a lot, wondering why Allah had taken away my understanding, why would he make me of those who's eyes, ears and heart is sealed. I didn't understand, I don't understand. I sinned a bit but I tried really hard to be a part of something that was the total opposite to my life. Lots of fall outs and arguments with family and friends about it, and Gods just gonna take it away and send me to hell?

    Now a year later, I'm just a big old hypocrite, I did hate being a hypocrite for a bit cos I thought I was the worst of people, and now I just don't give a shit about anything, but I can't let go. I hate my hijab, I fuckin hate it with a vengeance, I feel like a ugly tramp that gets depressed when shopping cos I can't wear anything I like, but I won't do anything about it, I can't take it off. Its not even an issue of family cos my family don't even want me to be like this. I'm holding on to my Muslim identity it brought me a sense of belonging and I still feel it, I do actually want to believe, but I can't. I think I'm a Muslim but by old me's definition i'm a kafir. I don't pray, yes I fasted Ramadan, but I fasted a few years before I even became Muslim, i'm just a control freak and like the idea of it. I don't even know how to explain what is going on in my head, I feel like i'm going insane like theres a little battle going on with one side wanting to be Muslim and the other being like don't  be ridiculous. I think to myself but I felt it once so it must be real, like what is it that these people (practicing Muslims) see that I can't anymore, how do they understand it but I don't. Why don't I care. With the issue of taking of the hijab its not an issue of feeling naked, because I've been covered for a few years, cos if I've taken it off a couple times when I've been out of the city just to see how I feel. I don't know if its cos I'm afraid what people will think of me, but I say it to their face that i'm pretty much a disbeliever. I'm just fake as fuck, I can't be around my Muslim friends cos they piss me off when they come out with bullshit and I have to pretend everything's fine and dandy. And I got rid of most of my old friends, the ones I do have don't get it when I talk to them about it, and think why can't I just take it off. Maybe its because if I take it off its all over, I don't know what I'm holding on to.

    I loved the idea of a Muslim marriage, (the watered down version lol) and now I feel confused, cos I can't be fake and marry a Muslim, cultural Muslims who don't know shit about their religion but think its the best thing since sliced bread piss me off, If I marry a non Muslim he won't get my experience and how I still hold some of the values dear, so i'm going to die alone. 24 and I have a lifetime of celibacy to look forward to, great, bad enough having held off for 3 and a half years, but I know I would feel guilty if I did try to do anything. I do really love aspects of Islam like when I hear it or read it, it makes my heart melt but then there's things that make me think what the fuck was a I thinking.

    Theres lots more little additives to what got me to Islam and what got me to here, but I just don't know what to do, I don't know what I want. Am I a Muslim? If i'm not what am I holding on to, I haven't even been Muslim for that long so why is it so hard to let go? What if it is the truth? What if God is a bit of a dictator and we expect him to be all loving but he's not and that's just the way it is, and you either follow or burn? WHAT THE FUCK! I am wasting my youth in limbo! I feel like a Islamic yo-yo, well mentally, cos at the moment I have no motivation to even try to be a decent Muslim. I'm just rather lonely and depressed about it all and don't feel like anyone really understands.

    And so here I am, on CEMB forum, not quite sure if I believe or not, even though I agree with most of what is said here. A little bit of an insight into my haphazard mind. There are probably loads of mistakes above and it might not make sense cos I literally just attacked my keyboard to get my rant out. But thank you to anyone that takes the time to read or comment  Smiley

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #1 - August 10, 2013, 07:17 PM

    I'm not sure I'd use the word hypocrite to describe you, more torn. There's nothing wrong with wanting to feel you belong, we can all understand that. If you read Seeker's intro I'm assuming you read my reply to him, and there's not much in there I couldn't say to you. If I may ask, from a few comments I'm wondering if what makes you feel torn in part is because you have both an idealised romantic version of islam along with the literal teachings? Just curious. Oh, and wait till you reach my age. I turned 26 last month.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #2 - August 10, 2013, 07:24 PM

    Give it a few months. You'll realise its all bollocks. 

    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #3 - August 10, 2013, 07:31 PM

    Hi Jibbs and welcome,

    I'll post a more thoughtful reply later, but just wanted to tell you this:

    "And so here I am, on CEMB forum, not quite sure if I believe or not, even though I agree with most of what is said here"

    is exactly how I feel.

    Take your time. Don't rush to a decision. I'm almost a decade older than you and I'm still wrestling with the same issues you're wrestling with. At this point in my life, I consider myself a Muslim, even though I'm riven with doubts and that I don't pray and don't fast. I didn't even go to Eid prayer when everybody in my family went. (btw, did you go?)

    Take your time.  We'll get through this storm of doubt, and the sun of contentment will shine out brightly, inshallah.
  • Re: Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #4 - August 10, 2013, 07:32 PM

    Give it a few months. You'll realise its all bollocks. 


    Duuuuuude.......not a helpful reply.
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #5 - August 10, 2013, 07:40 PM

    Give it a few months. You'll realise its all bollocks. 


    Fantastic reply.
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #6 - August 10, 2013, 07:44 PM

    Its what happened to me to put it bluntly.  You have a eureka moment. Its like fuckimg hell the first manon earth wasnt 90 feet tall and a person did not live ina whale. No-one split a moon and no-one flew light years  away on a winged donkey. Beating your wife is wrong under any circumstances and so is marrying a 9 year old.

    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #7 - August 10, 2013, 07:45 PM

    *having sex with

    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #8 - August 10, 2013, 07:45 PM

     
    HM,
    Fantastic reply? For a former Madkhali Neo-Salafite, you sure do sound so self-assured Smiley

    Did it take you a few months? No? Then please take the simplistic tripe somewhere else.
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #9 - August 10, 2013, 07:48 PM

    No. It took me plenty of time. Just wait until the proverbial straw breaks the camel's back.  I was what you are. You very likely will become what I am. Give it time. You'll realize it's all bollocks.
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #10 - August 10, 2013, 07:49 PM

    I think the thing is that for many losing belief in islam brought a sense of freedom and liberty they wouldn't want to trade after the initial soul searching.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #11 - August 10, 2013, 07:49 PM

    That about right?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #12 - August 10, 2013, 07:51 PM

    Hehe. The auto correct feature on my phone obviously didn't like it spelled that way.
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #13 - August 10, 2013, 07:53 PM

    I had a yank try to text me calling me a limey when was as over there. Ended up something with a very different meaning because of auto correct. Almost went knocking on his door, flowers in one hand wine in the other.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #14 - August 10, 2013, 07:54 PM


    HM,
    Fantastic reply? For a former Madkhali Neo-Salafite, you sure do sound so self-assured Smiley

    Did it take you a few months? No? Then please take the simplistic tripe somewhere else.


    You are right. I often do feel I have the conviction of a convert.  grin12
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #15 - August 10, 2013, 07:58 PM

    Or zealously of a convert as I say.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #16 - August 10, 2013, 07:58 PM

    I'm wondering if perhaps this isn't quite the support jibbs was looking for on her intro page.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #17 - August 10, 2013, 08:00 PM

    I'm not sure I'd use the word hypocrite to describe you, more torn. There's nothing wrong with wanting to feel you belong, we can all understand that. If you read Seeker's intro I'm assuming you read my reply to him, and there's not much in there I couldn't say to you. If I may ask, from a few comments I'm wondering if what makes you feel torn in part is because you have both an idealised romantic version of islam along with the literal teachings? Just curious. Oh, and wait till you reach my age. I turned 26 last month.


    I read your reply, but I can't remember, I'll have to go back to have a read again. I'm not sure, I feel like there are some really beautiful aspects, like I feel that a lot of ex-Muslims have this hate filled view of Islam, I can understand what they hate about it but makes me think, can't they see the really lovely parts? The same vice versa with Muslims who talk about Islam like it is the most peaceful liberating thing in the world and its like, dude what about all of these rather awful things. Like what outweighs what?
    I think that's what you meant by "idealised romantic version".

    Give it a few months. You'll realise its all bollocks.  


    Hmm if only it was that simple, I'm not sure if Islam was the phase or if my doubts are the phase, so confused.

    Take your time. Don't rush to a decision. I'm almost a decade older than you and I'm still wrestling with the same issues you're wrestling with. At this point in my life, I consider myself a Muslim, even though I'm riven with doubts and that I don't pray and don't fast. I didn't even go to Eid prayer when everybody in my family went. (btw, did you go?)

    Take your time.  We'll get through this storm of doubt, and the sun of contentment will shine out brightly, inshallah.


    Smiley thanks for the support, I'm just worried about wasting my youth if I'm wrong about Islam and worried about dying like this if my disbelief is wrong. At this moment in time I'm a loser either way, Islamically speaking I'm hellbound, and hiding behind a hijab isn't exactly giving me freedom. I didn't go to the Eid prayer this year, I feel like I'm putting on a front for people and I don't want them to think I'm pious when I'm far from it.

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #18 - August 10, 2013, 08:03 PM

    Lol its fine, not exacty going to join CEMB and get some Islamic support and I guess its all really straight forward to most of you guys. I've got people trying to save me that side, seeing what people have to say over here to either confuse myself more, or make sense of things :S

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #19 - August 10, 2013, 08:10 PM

    Personally I don't care one way or another if you choose to remain a muslim or become an atheist or even a jedi. I joined this site because people in my own home are being bullied, assaulted, and going through hell just for simply being honest.

    If you end up remaining a muslim, all your doubts vanish, and it brings you fulfilment and happiness, I'll be the first one to wish you well. I'm not anti-islam, I'm pro human compassion.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #20 - August 10, 2013, 08:20 PM

    The thing is I've tried I've tried to research my issues in Islam and try to find excuses, but a lot of it comes up as excuses and it doesn't sound good enough, some of the excuses its like "ok, surely you can hear the shit your spewing right now" and most of the time it made it worse, so I just stopped looking into it, out of fear of being a disbeliever. I don't understand why I find it so hard to let go, and that a stranger giving me salams down the street gives me a sense of comfort and belonging, but I wasn't brought up with this. I understand if someone would be scared to lose Islam if they have lived their whole life like it and will loose their family. Which maybe thinks maybe its the truth, but it don't make sense anymore! but why did it at some point.

    A lot of the intro's I've read on here, the ppl are quite young and they saw it as bullshit quite early, but I was drawn into it from a religion free life, which makes me feel a bit like a gullible twat if it is all fake. I can't explain how lost I feel.

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #21 - August 10, 2013, 08:21 PM

    So much to say. Will give a detailed reply back at the ranch

    Don't read all those science books bro, you'll just get more confused.

    That's funny. The more science I read, the less confused I get.
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #22 - August 10, 2013, 08:23 PM

    A lot of the attractiveness of islam is the sense of community and belonging. You can see it with any group, from muslims to goths. It's the same feeling of security and sometimes freedom.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #23 - August 10, 2013, 08:26 PM

    And its now even anything new! its all stuff I accepted before. I don't know.

    I've spent the whole of Ramadan reading through ex-muslim arguments so I know what most people are going to say but I don't feel definitive either way, even though I agree with it.

    I just hate feeling this confused and depressed, and I'm a planner so not knowing where my life is going is giving me anxiety lol. If becoming Muslim didn't throw off my plans enough now I don't know what I'm doing.

    Is there many converts in here?

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #24 - August 10, 2013, 08:28 PM

    A lot of the attractiveness of islam is the sense of community and belonging. You can see it with any group, from muslims to goths. It's the same feeling of security and sometimes freedom.


    Quod you weren't Muslim previously right? I think I remember reading that. I don't know how to explain how or why I became Muslim I don't think it was just a sense of belonging, it might be now.

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #25 - August 10, 2013, 08:29 PM

    A fair few yes. I've given my reasons quite plainly for why I believe allah doesn't exist. Yesterday with Seeker I went so far as to call the god of the abrahamic faiths evil. Only in the sense of the character of course.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #26 - August 10, 2013, 08:31 PM

    Does seem to be a factor now from what you said. Sometimes things make sense to us for a while and then they don't. It's called growth. That isn't to say those who believe all their lives can never grow, just that our growth comes out in different ways.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #27 - August 10, 2013, 08:31 PM

    A lot of the intro's I've read on here, the ppl are quite young and they saw it as bullshit quite early, but I was drawn into it from a religion free life, which makes me feel a bit like a gullible twat if it is all fake. I can't explain how lost I feel.

    Not a gullible twat, a fallible person who takes the search for the truth seriously, makes some wrong turns along the way and has the humility to acknowledge their mistakes. Those are all noble attributes, so don't beat yourself up. Smiley
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #28 - August 10, 2013, 08:41 PM

    Welcome abroad Jibbs ! parrot bunny

    I started having doubts during Ramadan just like you and I'm also kinda lost in all of this,one minute I'll be like fuck it religions are just a bunch of fairytale shit but then the next,I'll go out and see how kind and loving muslim people can be,even when they don't even know you.I'll suggest doing a lot of research,read the Quran(If you didn't already)along with the Torah and the Bible,read about other religions and then make your own conclusions,and lastly I hope you'll find all the answers you're looking for.Welcome again ! Smiley
  • Erm Hello?! Somewhat confused individual here.
     Reply #29 - August 10, 2013, 08:42 PM

    I'm not a muslim, most of the people I know aren't. All kind and loving. Just want to point out islam doesn't have a monopoly on that.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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