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 Topic: Opinions on arranged marriages?

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  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     OP - November 16, 2013, 11:59 PM

    Hey just curious coming from a culture where arranged marriages are outdated. Out of curiousity what is your opinion on them.? Benefits? Negative effects?
    Know any arrange marriage success stories?

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #1 - November 17, 2013, 12:09 AM

    As far as I know, my parents didn't have an arranged marriage, but all of my friends who got married did and my parents tried to set me up, too, until I shot them down.

    As for my opinion on it, I do not like it. It makes NO sense to have marriages arranged today. Why get married to someone you barely know? How awkward is that.  Tongue Also, I know most of the people I went to school with only got married early because they were horny and didn't want to sin.

    It's just outdated and very sexist as it requires the groom-to-be to ask the father for permission before talking to his daughter. Ew. I don't want to be treated like property.  finmad

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #2 - November 17, 2013, 01:50 AM

    I think marriage itself is out dated and society is better off getting rid of it.

    You can be in a monogamous relationship without getting married. You shouldn't need a piece of paper from the state  or church to prove  that you love someone.

    By getting married you also run the completely unnecessary risk of putting yourself through the legal nightmare known as "Divorce". 

    Even if I ever consider being in a committed relationship I'll sure as hell never get married.   


    I mean you can live together with your significant other and do everything that a husband and wife do the only difference would be that you don't have a silly piece of paper that says that your married.




    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #3 - November 17, 2013, 03:50 AM

    It's institutional racism (a phrase I despise and use only when holding my nose against the foul stench of grievance politics).

    I know I said this on another thread. Sorry.
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #4 - November 17, 2013, 04:35 AM

    ^
    How is it institutional racism?  Huh?

    "so now, if you leave (Allahu A?lam is you already have) what will u do??? go out and show ur body to all the men??? sleep with countless men?? maashaAllah if you think think this is freedom or womens right then may Allah guide you to that which is correct."
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #5 - November 17, 2013, 10:06 AM

    I think it depends on the person, many people can spend years getting to know someone and when they marry and live with them they're a totally different person often ending in early divorce because it wasn't the person they thought they were marrying. As they say you don't know someone till you live with them. In regards to those who haven't interacted with the opposite gender and its just as exciting as finding someone you love, they have less expectations so they accept them on how they are when they marry, so they tend to try to work to accept how they are. I know people who chose their own marriage from a relationship and it ended within a year or they are not happy and others who married after a couple of days after meeting and are completely happy. However if you have some sense of the world and have interacted with the opposite gender, it could probably be quite disappointing to have a marriage arranged, because you have something to compare it to.

    In regards of the outdated ritual of asking the father, I don't agree with it solely resting on his word. I think its a respectful gesture, sometimes its hard for men to lose their baby girls, to know that she is going to be with someone that respects your views too is a nice gesture, rather than doing everything behind his back and he just has to accept it, sometimes it may feel nice for the father to feel like he still has a part in her life.

    "Make anyone believe their own knowledge and logic is insufficient and you'll have a puppet susceptible to manipulation."
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #6 - November 17, 2013, 10:09 AM

    ^
    How is it institutional racism?  Huh?


    Because it was used as a tool in the old days for the parents of the children to make sure that everyone marries within their own race and/or tribe. Unless the marriage was for political reasons, like for treaties and whatnot.  It is basically a legal contract at the end of the day.

    I hate marriage.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #7 - November 17, 2013, 10:10 AM

    I'm happy to do what most people do. Fall in love, try living together, and if a few years go by and you find you're still happy together, get married if you want to.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #8 - November 17, 2013, 11:50 AM

    I think it depends on the person, many people can spend years getting to know someone and when they marry and live with them they're a totally different person often ending in early divorce because it wasn't the person they thought they were marrying. As they say you don't know someone till you live with them. In regards to those who haven't interacted with the opposite gender and its just as exciting as finding someone you love, they have less expectations so they accept them on how they are when they marry, so they tend to try to work to accept how they are. I know people who chose their own marriage from a relationship and it ended within a year or they are not happy and others who married after a couple of days after meeting and are completely happy. However if you have some sense of the world and have interacted with the opposite gender, it could probably be quite disappointing to have a marriage arranged, because you have something to compare it to.

    In regards of the outdated ritual of asking the father, I don't agree with it solely resting on his word. I think its a respectful gesture, sometimes its hard for men to lose their baby girls, to know that she is going to be with someone that respects your views too is a nice gesture, rather than doing everything behind his back and he just has to accept it, sometimes it may feel nice for the father to feel like he still has a part in her life.


    This.

    It appears as though that some people have certain stereotypes and prejudices in mind when discussing arranged marriages. They are not ALL forced on people. You must accept there are lots of people out there with different personality types. Some are sociable and are able to meet someone whereas others are introvert and may be reluctant to meet someone.  So when considering arranged marriages you must ake into account:

    a) the personality of the individuals concerned. Sure there may be people here who say well 'I find no problem talking to girls'. Well good for you, now fuck off. Not everyone is like you and they appreciate the help they receive from family, friends and the virtual environment (the internet).

    b) the roles of those involved in arranged marriages varies from community to community. Some parents simply introduce prospective partners, or if a partner has been found wish to meet them and talk to them, whilst tohers may have a checklist present to view the compatibility between two people. Not all Muslim parents consider their children to be possessions and auction them off to their family members. They do care about them a  lot and have good, albeit naive, intentions.

    c) the word 'arranged' is an elasticated concept. Are you talking about the arrangement that occured to one of my friends when his whole family was called into a room and told by their grandfather that so and so would later marry so and so? Or perhaps the arrangement in which a mother may say 'look son, aunty so-and-so is coming around for dinner and she has a nice daughter you might consider for marriage'?

    I have seen far more 'successful' arranged marriages than failed. Sure, you could argue that perhaps how are we to know if the marriage is truly succeful? But this applies to all marriage types successful or not.

    Not all arranged marriages are the same and if a person chooses to have an arranged marriage then good for them.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #9 - November 17, 2013, 11:55 AM

    Because it was used as a tool in the old days for the parents of the children to make sure that everyone marries within their own race and/or tribe.

    It still is, isn't it?

    (Rare dynastic exceptions apply, I'm sure.)
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #10 - November 17, 2013, 12:10 PM

    Of course, but I would like to think that it's not being used exclusively for that purpose anymore these days across the world.  Wishful thinking on my part, I know.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #11 - November 17, 2013, 12:12 PM

    a mother may say 'look son, aunty so-and-so is coming around for dinner and she has a nice daughter you might consider for marriage'?


    That's just creepy...

    Please tell me this aunt is a family friend.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #12 - November 17, 2013, 12:29 PM

    Not all arranged marriages are the same and if a person chooses to have an arranged marriage then good for them.


    Ok.  I haven't gotten much sleep, but here we go.  You know why all arranged marriages are bad? Because if the person has an actual choice in choosing their mate, doesn't matter how they are introduced [family suggesting, etc etc], or even let's go so far as to say that the person has a choice in actually saying "why yes, I would love to have you decide who I would marry for me no questions asked or objections made" or "hell no, you must be out of your gourd", then it no longer can be called an arranged marriage. In an arranged marriage, neither participating parties have a choice in the matter at all.  The families do all the deciding. Not ready to get married? Too bad, because everyone BUT YOU will be arranging your future for you.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #13 - November 17, 2013, 12:30 PM

    Of course, but I would like to think that it's not being used exclusively for that purpose anymore these days across the world.

    Does the purpose matter? White 'racists' get tarred and feathered on far flimsier evidence.
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #14 - November 17, 2013, 12:31 PM

     Cheesy

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #15 - November 17, 2013, 12:44 PM

    Your earlier post is bang on the button, by the way.
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #16 - November 17, 2013, 12:54 PM

    Bang on the button.  I like that.  Thank you.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #17 - November 17, 2013, 01:33 PM

    My parents are the worst example ever of an arranged marriage. Obviously they liked each other but they didn't know anything about their different personalities and behaviour. I mean, how can you marry someone you barely know?
    They are committed to live together.
    I find it really stupid, you cant even arrange your own future!
    I think marriage itself is out dated and society is better off getting rid of it.

    You can be in a monogamous relationship without getting married. You shouldn't need a piece of paper from the state  or church to prove  that you love someone.

    By getting married you also run the completely unnecessary risk of putting yourself through the legal nightmare known as "Divorce". 

    Even if I ever consider being in a committed relationship I'll sure as hell never get married.   


    I mean you can live together with your significant other and do everything that a husband and wife do the only difference would be that you don't have a silly piece of paper that says that your married.





    I agree with it
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #18 - November 17, 2013, 01:36 PM

    Ok.  I haven't gotten much sleep, but here we go.  You know why all arranged marriages are bad? Because if the person has an actual choice in choosing their mate, doesn't matter how they are introduced [family suggesting, etc etc], or even let's go so far as to say that the person has a choice in actually saying "why yes, I would love to have you decide who I would marry for me no questions asked or objections made" or "hell no, you must be out of your gourd", then it no longer can be called an arranged marriage. In an arranged marriage, neither participating parties have a choice in the matter at all.  The families do all the deciding. Not ready to get married? Too bad, because everyone BUT YOU will be arranging your future for you.


    I suggest you get yourself educated.

    Anyone who present an absolutist stance liek yours on this issue clearly hasn't done their research.

    In an arranged marriage, neither participating parties have a choice in the matter at all. '
    How can you prove this statement to be true if only for a few anecdotal evidence? I can prove you wrong in an instant. I know many people, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs who ahve had arranged marriages, freely admit and will tell you were to stick it if you try and convince them that 'The families do all the deciding.'.

    There is a difference between arranged marriages and forced marriages. Even the UK Border Agency appears more educated than you on this subject: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/forced-marriage/ and here is another website http://www.shaktiedinburgh.co.uk/arrangedmarriageyp.html and another http://www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic_violence_topic.asp?section=0001000100220031&sectionTitle=Forced+marriage

    As I mentioned there are particular nuances that must be taken into account such as personality, community etc. Its not as clear cut as 'I think arranged marriages are bad, therefore arranged marriages are bad.'




    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #19 - November 17, 2013, 01:46 PM

    I have to side with Jedi on this. What should be the aim is to not make it a social stigma/taboo to leave an arranged marriage. Divorce seems to be really looked down on in some circles and the pressures can just lead to an unhappy life or even staying with an abuser.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #20 - November 17, 2013, 01:53 PM

    ^^^^^^^

    Even this Quod, I know many people who have divorced or been separated. It is more of a taboo in certain communities but it is becoming acceptable. Divorce is the great unmentionable, but statistic show a trend in which more and more women from Muslim communities are demanding their rights. The real problem are the clown Shariah courts that try to act as arbiters but do more damage to vulnerable women.

    To make absolutist statements and essentialise a practice and a group of people is nothing short of prejudice and ignorance, which leads to bigoted views and unfortunately I have seen this present on these forums on more than one occasion.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #21 - November 17, 2013, 01:56 PM

    BBC programme about Medieval lives discussed this.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03d6c64

    Quote
    Unlike birth and death, which are inescapable facts of life, marriage is rite of passage made by choice and in the Middle Ages it wasn't just a choice made by bride and groom - they were often the last pieces in a puzzle, put together by their parents, with help from their family and friends, according to rules laid down by the Church.

    Helen Castor reveals how in the Middle Ages marriage was actually much easier to get into than today - you could get married in a pub or even a hedgerow simply by exchanging words of consent - but from the 12th century onwards the Catholic Church tried to control this conjugal free-for-all. For the Church marriage was a way to contain the troubling issue of sex, but, as the film reveals, it was not easy to impose rules on the most unpredictable human emotions of love and lust.


    Why does there seem to be a very wide spread acceptance of arranged marriages?  Has it not been a contract between consenting parties?  Are women and men not even equal in marriage?  Programmed discusses "the marriage debt".  Is there an equivalent idea in Islam?

    Quote
    Is it a mortal sin to refuse one’s husband or wife the marital debt?

    Conjugal relations are rightly called the "marriage debt", which each spouse owes the other in justice the relations that are apt to engender children. It is this very particular right over one’s body that is given up to one’s spouse by marriage vows. Saint Paul is very explicit about this:

        Let the husband render the debt to his wife, and the wife also in like manner to the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband. And in like manner the husband also hath not power of his own body, but the wife. (I Cor. 7:3 & 4)

    A debt in justice obliges under pain when a serious matter or quantity is owed. However, marriage relationships are a serious matter and of great importance. Furthermore, the refusal of the marriage debt may cause a danger of incontinence.Consequently, it is a mortal sin to deprive one’s spouse of these relationships. The typical example of this is when a wife feels that she is justified in withholding the marriage debt because her feelings are hurt, or she is not appreciated enough. However, there is no excuse for the husband to withhold the affection and care for his wife’s feelings, for is responsible for them as head of the family.

    However, it is possible for the couple to agree, by mutual consent, to abstain for a short period of time, for example for penance, during Lent. However, it must be by mutual consent, and on the understanding that either spouse can withdraw it at any time. Saint Paul speaks of this also:

        Defraud not one another, except, perhaps, by consent, for a time, that you may give yourselves to prayer (I Cor 7:5).

    There can, however, be good reasons that excuse a husband or wife from rendering this marriage debt, such as adultery of the other spouse, or unreasonable demands (e.g. frequency, intoxication) or grave danger to health or life (e.g. by the possible communication of infectious diseases), or a husband who refuses to perform his duty of supporting his family (Jone, Moral Theology, pp. 557 & 558). There can also be special circumstances that reduce the culpability of refusing the marriage debt, so that it is only a venial sin, for example "if the petitioner will readily renounce his right, or if rendering it is only briefly postponed, or when the use of the marriage right is frequent and its refusal is only rare" (ibid).  [Answered by Fr. Peter R. Scott]


    http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3453185.0.html

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #22 - November 17, 2013, 01:58 PM

    That's just creepy...

    Please tell me this aunt is a family friend.


    About as creepy as meeting someone from the internet or engaging in a converstation with someone on a forum and asking to meet them?

    The aunt is most usually a family friend.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #23 - November 17, 2013, 02:06 PM

    Eh, if other people want to do it it's their life, but personally I don't think I could even marry my cousin. There's no way I could ever have that kind of relationship with a family member.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #24 - November 17, 2013, 02:09 PM

    ^^^^^^^

    Quod, most asian families use the term 'aunty' or 'uncle' not only to refer to direct blood relations but as a term of respect and endearance towards elders.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #25 - November 17, 2013, 02:13 PM

    That's quite sweet.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #26 - November 17, 2013, 02:40 PM

    About as creepy as meeting someone from the internet or engaging in a converstation with someone on a forum and asking to meet them?


    Quick question, are you referring to when I first decided to try and do a local ex-muslim thing and PMed you asking if you'd be interested?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #27 - November 17, 2013, 02:58 PM

    lol partly yes and something  personal for someone else to read on this forum.

    It wasn't a dig at you mate. It's just a way to meet people isn't it? Nothing wrong with taht.  Afro

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #28 - November 17, 2013, 03:00 PM

    I'm sorry if I made you uncomfortable.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Opinions on arranged marriages?
     Reply #29 - November 17, 2013, 03:04 PM

    You didn't make me uncomfortable at all. It was a nice gesture, a friendly one that I really appreciated and still do.

    I was just trying to point out that out of context things can appear 'weird' or 'creepy' to others. 

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
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