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 Topic: morality without religion

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  • morality without religion
     Reply #30 - December 03, 2013, 07:47 PM
    Quote from: Cornflower on December 03, 2013, 07:40 PM
    Hhhhh nope, he's from the Middle East :-)

    Huh!  How do you know he doesn't understand that?    I was under the impression you don't understand "THAT" Cornflower. Well guys from Middles East very emotional., If you take away those emotions they will become kitty cats.. lol...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • morality without religion
     Reply #31 - December 03, 2013, 08:15 PM
    I was referring to the language barrier. Don't they speak urdu or something? :-)
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • morality without religion
     Reply #32 - December 03, 2013, 08:30 PM
    Quote from: schizo on December 03, 2013, 02:27 AM
    Dawkins' moral arguments are philosophically unsound. I actually don't blame muslims for this one.

    Of course, if the pigheaded ulama ever offered anything sophisticated I may be inclined to give Islam another chance.

    Islamic postmodernists are dead, islamic Marxists, doubly so, islamic liberation theologists a la. Shariati. Well. probably intentionally shot themselves after the Iranian revolution.

    Good lord, are there still Red Shia about? Would make for interesting conversation, no doubt.


    I completely agree. His arguments are sometimes pathetic.
  • morality without religion
     Reply #33 - December 03, 2013, 09:54 PM
    Quote from: Cornflower on December 03, 2013, 08:15 PM
    I was referring to the language barrier. Don't they speak urdu or something? :-)

    And I was trying to find where he come from  Tongue  .,  lol ... well Those two are multilingos.. They speak,  Urdu, Arabic, English, Punjabi,

    with best wishes
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • morality without religion
     Reply #34 - December 03, 2013, 09:59 PM
    Quote from: schizo on December 03, 2013, 02:27 AM
    Dawkins' moral arguments are philosophically unsound. I actually don't blame muslims for this one..............

    Quote from: kutta on December 03, 2013, 08:30 PM
    I completely agree. His arguments are sometimes pathetic.  

    As long as his pathetic arguments are open to question and  as long as his followers don't make him as unquestionable  prophet of some Dawkinism,  I am not worried about his moral arguments, his moral theory, his philosophy and his morality....
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • morality without religion
     Reply #35 - December 05, 2013, 08:04 PM
    Just shooting the shit here with some of my thoughts about the Islamic (or any theistic) ethical code and why it is perceived by some to be superior to a purely secular one.

    The important thing in judging the efficacy of a voluntary ethical code is to gain an understanding of their purpose, and to gain such an understanding one has to recognize why they would be promoted by self-interested individuals in a competitive environment. The general hypothesis from rationalist sorts seems to be that a voluntarily set of individually altruistic communal ethics would evolve in order to improve the fitness of the group that subscribed to it, ie group selection. However the obvious problem with this model is that it fails to recognize that at an individual level one would gain a selective advantage simply by not restricting oneself to the ethical code.

    The alternative, and imo, much more compelling hypothesis about such ethical systems would be that they are promoted to bolster individual fitness. The way that this would occur is by their effect of placing constraints on the behaviors of others. If one looks at the history of religions, one can see that this is clearly the modus operandi of religious traditions throughout history, including Islam. For example, Islam places arbitrary restrictions on the expression of human sexuality. It should be obvious how the promotion of such a doctrine on others could increase one's individual fitness.

    Thus once one understands that the extremely arbitrary prohibitions of Islamic doctrine were not designed to restrict the individual proscribing them, one can recognize why these individuals can see no morality in a secular ethical framework, for example humanism. It simply hasn't had the same long history of enforcing arbitrary constraints on human behavior that religion has, and thus has no use for such individuals.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • morality without religion
     Reply #36 - December 05, 2013, 08:43 PM
    Islamic ethics/morality = obeying Allah and His Prophet and NOT doing what is beneficial to humankind. That we may at times benefit is incidental, the primary purpose of life is to do what the big G wants us to do. If you dsiobey Allah you are immoral. Therefore Islamic morality as the basis of human societies/interaction is deeply flawed as that is not premise it works from. It is a superstructure paradigm with Allah at the base and Allah at the top. All things serve Allah's Will and by serving Allah's Will may may either benefit or suffer, either way we must obey His Will. With that in mind:

    No dogs.
    No chess.
    No entering home with left foot.
    No laughing too loud.
    No revolting against the ruling elite.
    No pictures.
    No music.
    No second look (zina).

    All of the above encompasses Islamic morality. Why dont the neo-Dawists mention this? Are they afraid? This is the objective morality of Allah who doesn't like dogs apparently, unless they are given water by someones slipper. He likes cats though. And dates.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • morality without religion
     Reply #37 - December 05, 2013, 09:12 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on December 05, 2013, 08:43 PM
    Islamic ethics/morality = obeying Allah and His Prophet ....................

    No dogs.
    No chess.
    No entering home with left foot.
    No laughing too loud.
    No revolting against the ruling elite.
    No pictures.
    No music.
    No second look (zina).

    All of the above encompasses Islamic morality. .....

    Jedi you are quoting  out of  Islamic scriptures out of context finmad

    Surat At-Tawbah -  At-Tawbah -

    Quote
    009.001  : (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Messenger towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.

    009.002 : So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.

    009.003 : And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.

    009.004 : Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).

    009.005 : So when the sacred months have passed away,[u][i][b] then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush,[/b][/i][/u] then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    009.006 : And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.

    009.007 : How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Messenger; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).

    009.008 : How (can it be)! while if they prevail against you, they would not pay regard in your case to ties of relationship, nor those of covenant; they please you with their mouths while their hearts do not consent; and most of them are transgressors.............


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • morality without religion
     Reply #38 - December 05, 2013, 09:14 PM
    When did you join the Zakir Naik nahi khal naik khun mein  Brigade Yeezeevee?
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • morality without religion
     Reply #39 - December 05, 2013, 09:22 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on December 05, 2013, 09:14 PM
    When did you join the Zakir Naik nahi khal naik khun mein  Brigade Yeezeevee?


    when I see people like Myriam Francois-Cerrah and read the verses from that chapter -9 as suggested by ZAKIR NAIK
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • morality without religion
     Reply #40 - December 05, 2013, 09:24 PM
    I have a cheeky crush on her.  Tongue

    Audhbillah!
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
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