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 Topic: Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology

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  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     OP - December 05, 2013, 05:20 AM
    Quote
    Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology, British Prime Minister David Cameron said on Tuesday, as part the government's response to the murder of a soldier on a busy London street.

    Cameron said he would implement recommendations he had received from a task force he set up after the murder of Lee Rigby in May, to try to stop people being radicalised by "hate preachers".

    Two men are on trial for the killing. A court heard that one of them said it was an "eye for an eye" and revenge for what they considered to be Britain's wars against Muslims. Both have pleaded not guilty.

    "This summer we saw events that shocked the nation," Cameron, who is in China on a trade trip, told reporters.

    "These tragedies were a wakeup call for government and wider society to take action to confront extremism in all its forms, whether in our communities, schools, prisons, Islamic centres or universities."

    "Islamist extremism" would, for the first time, be classified as a distinct ideology to guard against it being confused with traditional religious practice, he said.

    Cameron wants to tackle violent ideologies that claim Islamic justification but by doing so in a way that does not alienate Britain's 2.7 million Muslims.

    The new definition would make it clear that "Islamist extremism" was a distorted interpretation of Islam that betrayed the religion's principles and tried to sow division.

    Britain will also draw on techniques it has used to fight online pornography to make it easier for people to report material deemed extremist and work with Internet providers to create filters to allow people to block such content.

    Officials said the police could be given new powers to target "extremism" and that the government would consider introducing a new type of ban to outlaw radical groups.

    "There are just too many people who have been radicalised at Islamic centres, who have been in contact with extremist preachers, who have come across material on the Internet who haven't been sufficiently challenged," Cameron said.

    "I want to see an end to hate preaching in Britain."


    http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/12/04/britain-islam-security-idINL5N0JI4FE20131204
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #1 - December 05, 2013, 05:52 AM
    A step in the right direction.
    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #2 - December 05, 2013, 12:32 PM
    Be very careful - are ex muslims extremists?
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #3 - December 05, 2013, 01:00 PM
    Quote from: moi on December 05, 2013, 12:32 PM
    Be very careful - are ex muslims extremists?

    Ex-Muslims are NOT preaching hate moi.,  If they preach hate against Muslims then they are not ex-Muslims.

    Ex-Muslims are just analyzing   the so-called  word of allah/god  to figure out whether they are really words of god or words of man of his times. On the way they may heckle/joke/have fun with some brainless believers..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #4 - December 05, 2013, 01:04 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on December 05, 2013, 05:20 AM
    "There are just too many people who have been radicalised at Islamic centres, who have been in contact with extremist preachers, who have come across material on the Internet who haven't been sufficiently challenged," Cameron said.


    Sheikh Cameron, may I kiss your hand?
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #5 - December 05, 2013, 09:10 PM
    My point is that mainstream muslims do say ex Muslims are extremists., and depending on one's flavour, other muslim groups are extremist to other muslim groups.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #6 - December 05, 2013, 09:12 PM
    Yes, but ex-Muslims can't very well be called "Islamist extremists", so this legislation wouldn't apply.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #7 - December 05, 2013, 09:59 PM
    Quote
    "I want to see an end to hate preaching in Britain."


    And when someone alleges cemb is spreading hate against Islam because of leaving it?
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #8 - December 05, 2013, 10:02 PM
    Still wouldn't be "Islamist extremism", so this legislation wouldn't apply.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #9 - December 05, 2013, 10:03 PM
    Quote from: moi on December 05, 2013, 09:59 PM
    And when someone alleges cemb is spreading hate against Islam because of leaving it?

    Call them a ridiculous cunt and move on.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #10 - December 05, 2013, 10:06 PM
    A far more interesting question is: where do you draw the line between "Islamist extremism"and "traditional religious practice"?

    To take an obvious example, if you are giving a sermon in a mosque somewhere and quote that line from the Quran about unbelievers being the worst of people, is that "hate preaching" (arguably, it certainly is) or is it simply "traditional religious practice"?

    It can easily be argued both ways, depending on your preference.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #11 - December 05, 2013, 10:14 PM
    Or to put it another way, if some random twat gets up on a soapbox in the street and starts ranting about Muslims being the worst of people, he'd probably run afoul of vilification laws.

    If a Muslim gets up on an adjacent soapbox and starts quoting the Quran, it would be impossible to prosecute under vilification laws because any quotes from the Quran would have to be excused as "traditional religious practice", since no court or politician would want to deal with the bunfight that would result from declaring parts of a "holy book" to be "hate speech", even if by any non-holy-book criteria the relevant content would be classified as such.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #12 - December 05, 2013, 10:15 PM
    It's easier to just not make any concessions for religion at all. Treat them the same as any other set of politics and ideas.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #13 - December 05, 2013, 10:16 PM
    Fuck me, what a radical and horrific notion. You must be evil. cool2
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #14 - December 06, 2013, 12:20 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on December 05, 2013, 10:14 PM
    Or to put it another way, if some random twat gets up on a soapbox in the street and starts ranting about Muslims being the worst of people, he'd probably run afoul of vilification laws.

    If a Muslim gets up on an adjacent soapbox and starts quoting the Quran, it would be impossible to prosecute under vilification laws because any quotes from the Quran would have to be excused as "traditional religious practice", since no court or politician would want to deal with the bunfight that would result from declaring parts of a "holy book" to be "hate speech", even if by any non-holy-book criteria the relevant content would be classified as such.


    It's still hate speech if it's an actual incitement to violence. It doesn't change just because tptb don't have the courage to categorize it as such.

    There would be a certain level of discretion in making such an assessment, but for example, when bin Laden quotes the Quran to justify his military/political agenda, how could it be called anything but hate speech?
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #15 - December 20, 2013, 09:40 PM
    Am I the only one who doesn't like this idea? Cant the term 'Religious Extremism' be used as a catch-all term that doesn't single out one group.

    If they only highlight Islam, that could mean that any Christian Dominionist who wanted to, say, kill someone for picking up sticks on a Sunday (Numbers 15:32-36) could possibly avoid the new legislation when it should equally apply to them.
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #16 - December 20, 2013, 09:50 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on December 05, 2013, 10:06 PM
    A far more interesting question is: where do you draw the line between "Islamist extremism"and "traditional religious practice"?

    To take an obvious example, if you are giving a sermon in a mosque somewhere and quote that line from the Quran about unbelievers being the worst of people, is that "hate preaching" (arguably, it certainly is) or is it simply "traditional religious practice"?

    It can easily be argued both ways, depending on your preference.


    I can see a distinction. If all they say is that "atheists are smelly dirty pigs and will go to hell" it is an empty threat to me, so that would come under Religious Traditional Practice. Its offensive and I dislike it, but not scared or threatened. Should be legal.

    If they publically say "atheists must be killed" then that is an incitement to commit murder and should be a crime and will need a talking to. If they then urge a 'call to action' to murder atheists then they should be arrested and bought to justice. Should be illegal.

    So to summarize simply, I would say divine threats should be legal (ie god thinks you smell and will kill you) but real threats (ie WE will/should/must kill you) are illegal.

    I am sure there are some grey areas but just a broad definition from me.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #17 - December 20, 2013, 10:36 PM
    What if they say if Britain were a sharia state Atheists should be killed?
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #18 - December 21, 2013, 02:22 AM
    Quote from: Ishina on December 05, 2013, 10:03 PM
    Call them a ridiculous cunt and move on.

    Are you calling my sister a cunt?
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #19 - December 21, 2013, 11:59 AM
    You looking at my bird?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #20 - December 21, 2013, 01:28 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on December 05, 2013, 10:06 PM
    A far more interesting question is: where do you draw the line between "Islamist extremism"and "traditional religious practice"?

    To take an obvious example, if you are giving a sermon in a mosque somewhere and quote that line from the Quran about unbelievers being the worst of people, is that "hate preaching" (arguably, it certainly is) or is it simply "traditional religious practice"?

    It can easily be argued both ways, depending on your preference.


    Freedom of Religion vs Freedom of Speech. Impossible to balance without restriction placed on one or another. A conflict which never will be resolved until one is eliminated,
  • Britain plans to classify "Islamist extremism" as a distinct ideology
     Reply #21 - December 23, 2013, 02:10 AM
    Quote from: moi on December 20, 2013, 10:36 PM
    What if they say if Britain were a sharia state Atheists should be killed?


    Yes, I think it is inciting violence but perhaps in sharia controlled lands only. So it could be inciting murder abroad which I am sure must be a crime under Brit law, even if the crime will ultimately be committed outside the jurisdiction of the UK. Someone in a sharia country watching a UK debate promoting such ideas could then go out and kill an atheist. Might be a tough one to prove in court there is a direct causal link though.
    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
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