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Theme Changer

 Topic: The War on Freedom of Speech

 (Read 7792 times)
  • Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • e
     Reply #30 - December 30, 2013, 09:44 AM

    I'm willing to concede that orthodox Marxism is idealistic and unrealistic — I hate the term utopian, but I didn't advocate it as a coherent bedrock to begin with. If you don't understand Hegel (in rudimentary fashion) you shouldn't even try and touch orthomarx.

    Meh, I'm done with this conversation.
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #31 - December 30, 2013, 10:16 AM

    I'm only going to say this once and I hope it suffices. I do not, in principle, fully endorse the doctrine of dialectical materialism.

    I accept historical materialism though.
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #32 - December 30, 2013, 04:04 PM

    It has nothing to do with Marxism, or your caricatures of it.  The super rich are simply thieves stealing from the rest of us.  This is why their income is in fact listed as "unearned".  I live around conservative Republican folks who even understand this.  It's simply a fact.


    Quote
    I'm willing to concede that orthodox Marxism is idealistic and unrealistic — I hate the term utopian, but I didn't advocate it as a coherent bedrock to begin with. If you don't understand Hegel (in rudimentary fashion) you shouldn't even try and touch orthomarx.


    Eh, not really.  Not that I'm a great defender of Marxism in general, but Marxian economic analysis and predictions, the core parts of them anyway, have never been refuted, just misrepresented or ignored.  Indeed, it looks more and more like Marx was just early and jumping the gun, as opposed to being wrong.

    http://fabiusmaximus.com/2012/11/27/inequality-productivity-grantham-46123/ The coming big inequality. Was Marx just early?

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/04/15/thoroughly_modern_marx

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/10/why-the-massive-wealth-of-the-1-could-ruin-the-economy/247277/

    http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/05/robots-artificial-intelligence-jobs-automation
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #33 - December 31, 2013, 03:11 AM

    Headsman


    This is the first emoticon that has made me laugh.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #34 - December 31, 2013, 03:14 AM

    Actually that's a good summation of the infantile socialism that pervades modern societal discourses.
    Tongue.


    Infantile socialism is the only kind I know. I have been infantilized, you know. I am only growing out of it now. The socialists I knew were not much help.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #35 - December 31, 2013, 03:17 AM

    I'm only going to say this once and I hope it suffices. I do not, in principle, fully endorse the doctrine of dialectical materialism.

    I accept historical materialism though.


    I would never accuse you of such.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #36 - December 31, 2013, 09:21 AM

    Nick Cohen is thought provoking

    Quote
    Winner of Polemic of the Year at the 2013 Political Book Awards.After the fall of the Berlin Wall, the collapse of Communism, and the advent of the Web which allowed for even the smallest voice to be heard, everywhere you turned you were told that we were living in an age of unparalleled freedom.
    You Can't Read This Book argues that this view is dangerously naive. From the revolution in Iran that wasn't, to the Great Firewall of China and the imposition of super-injunctions from the filthy rich protecting their privacy, the traditional opponents of freedom of speech - religious fanaticism, plutocratic power and dictatorial states - are thriving, and in many respects finding the world a more comfortable place in the early 21st century than they did in the late 20th.

    This is not an account of interesting but trivial disputes about freedom of speech: the rights and wrongs of shouting 'fire' in a crowded theatre, of playing heavy metal at 3 am in a built-up area or articulating extremist ideas in a school or university. Rather, this is a story that starts with the cataclysmic reaction of the Left and Right to the publication and denunciation of the Satanic Verses in 1988 that saw them jump into bed with radical extremists. It ends at the juncture where even in the transgressive, liberated West, where so much blood had been spilt for Freedom, where rebellion is the conformist style and playing the dissenter the smart career move in the arts and media, you can write a book and end up destroyed or dead.

    Reviews

    ‘Cohen is perhaps the most insightful, thought-provoking and entertaining political writer in Britain today, and comes from the honest tradition of English liberal thought that threads from John Milton to John Stuart Mill and George Orwell’ Telegraph, Ed West

    ‘Nick Cohen’s books are like the best Smiths songs; however depressing the content, the execution is so shimmering, so incandescent with indignation that the overall effect is transcendently uplifting’ Julie Burchill, Prospect


    http://www.harpercollins.co.uk/titles/9780007308903/you-cant-read-this-book-nick-cohen

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #37 - December 31, 2013, 12:05 PM

    As long as there is a ruling class, meaning as long as there is humanity, there will be a war on freedom of expression. Just how it is. SO WE MUST FIGHT FOR THE INTERNET!


    Meanwhile:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vILAlhwUgIU
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #38 - December 31, 2013, 02:00 PM

    Beautiful.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #39 - December 31, 2013, 02:01 PM

    I'm willing to concede that orthodox Marxism is idealistic and unrealistic — I hate the term utopian, but I didn't advocate it as a coherent bedrock to begin with. If you don't understand Hegel (in rudimentary fashion) you shouldn't even try and touch orthomarx.

    Meh, I'm done with this conversation.


    k..doesn't really matter to me if you are implying that I don't know what I am talking about, don't let the door hit you on the way out

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #40 - January 05, 2014, 05:41 AM

    Quote
    Infantile socialism is the only kind I know. I have been infantilized, you know. I am only growing out of it now. The socialists I knew were not much help.


    What exactly is "infantile socialism"?  Is there also "infantile capitalism"?  I'm honestly confused.

    In my experience, everywhere in the world, but especially in the US, most don't even know the economic terms they love throwing around.  I've yet to meet anyone who says they are pro-capitalist who even knows what capitalism is...
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #41 - January 05, 2014, 01:27 PM

    Fuck Capitalism. Sure, it produces a lot of things that I love.. but.. it creates situations like the one were are in now. Large corporations owning anything and everything including things that are necessary for survival. There is no check on them and they run rampant because they are private institutions and can also be considered, in US law, as an individual. Which means that they are entitled to the same rights as an individual. Makes them harder persecute.

    Anyway.

    http://torrentfreak.com/internet-censors-came-for-torrentfreak-now-im-really-mad-140105/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Torrentfreak+%28Torrentfreak%29&utm_content=FaceBook

    Quote
    ISPs exist to provide us with unfettered access to the Internet, not the version they or their technology partners feels is appropriate for us. Their ‘parental controls’ do not achieve their stated aim of “protecting children” and are already causing collateral damage by blocking totally innocent sites such as the one you are reading now. It’s hard not to get angry when you realize your website’s accessibility is becoming disabled by default.

    chillSomeone once told me never to go food shopping when hungry, never to argue when drunk, and more recently never to write when angry. Take a deep breath, go for a run, get the aggression out anyway you can first, I was advised.

    I’ve done all of that this morning and none of it has worked. In fact, I might be even more fired up than before. This website blocking nonsense that is beginning to pollute the Internet has gone way too far and is becoming my sworn enemy.

    Here at TF we’ve long been opponents of website blocking. It’s a blunt instrument that is prone to causing collateral damage and known for failing to achieve its stated aims. We recently discovered that thanks to Sky’s Broadband Shield filtering system, TorrentFreak is now blocked on one of the UK’s largest ISPs by users who think they are protecting their kids.

    Our crimes are the topics we cover. As readers know we write about file-sharing, copyright and closely linked issues including privacy and web censorship. We write about the positives and the negatives of those topics and we solicit comments from not only the swarthiest of pirates, but also the most hated anti-piracy people on the planet.

    If the MPAA, RIAA, FACT, BPI, RightsAlliance, BREIN and every DMCA takedown company on earth want to have their say they can do that, alongside the folks at The Pirate Bay. We won’t deny anyone their voice, whether it’s someone being raided by the police or the people who instigated the raid. Getting the news out is paramount.

    We are not scared to let anyone have their say and we embrace free speech. But apparently the people at Sky and their technology masters at Symantec believe that we should be denied our right to communicate on the basis that we REPORT NEWS about file-sharing issues.

    That’s just utter nonsense.

    Symantec write about viruses and malware ALL THE TIME, so are they placed in the malware and virus category? Of course not. Thanks to their very own self-categorization process they wear the “Technology and Telecommunication” label. Is their website blocked by any of their own filters? I won’t even bother answering that.

    Examining other sites helpfully categorized by Symantec and blindly accepted by Sky reveals no more clarity either. UK ISP Virgin Media runs its own Usenet access, customers can find it at news.virginmedia.com. From there it’s possible to download every possible copyrighted movie and TV show around today, yet that service is listed by Symantec as a “Technology and Telecommunication / Portal” site. Download.com, possibly the world’s largest distributer of file-sharing software, is also green-lighted through.

    stopstopOn the other hand, TorrentFreak – which neither offers or links to copyrighted files and hosts no file-sharing software whatsoever – is blocked for any Sky household filtered for under 18s? Really? Our news site is suitable for all ages yet when Sky’s teenager filter is turned on we are put on the same level as porn, suicide, self harm, violence and gore.

    Are you kidding me?

    Thanks to Ernesto’s annual ‘most-pirated‘ charts we have been cited countless dozens of times in the past few weeks by fellow news resources all over the Internet. Yet Sky users who are “protecting their children” find that when they try to follow the link to the source of those stories they are effectively informed that TorrentFreak is unsuitable for anyone under 18. What does that do for our reputation?

    As an earlier statement from Sky points out, the parental filters can be modified to let certain sites through, TorrentFreak.com included. However, when someone in a family asks the account holder for a site to be unblocked (they are the only person who can do that), why would they do so when Sky and Symantec make it very clear on their block screen that we are a file-sharing site? Who will most people believe, a teenager or a “respectable” corporation that cares so much about kids? Furthermore, what are the chances that the account holder even remembers how to turn filtering off once the initial ‘default on’ settings are accepted?

    There can be little doubt that little by little, piece by piece, big corporations and governments are taking chunks out of the free Internet. Today they pretend that the control is in the hands of the people, but along the way they are prepared to mislead and misdirect, even when their errors are pointed out to them.

    I’m calling on Sky, Symantec, McAfee and other ISPs about to employ filtering to categorize this site correctly as a news site or blog and to please start listening to people’s legitimate complaints about other innocent sites. It serves nobody’s interests to wrongfully block legitimate information.

    And to Sky, please don’t try pretending that you’re actually trying to stop file-sharing with your parental controls, because if you really meant business you would have blocked the actual protocols, not merely some websites. But that would cost you money in customer churn, and we obviously need to avoid that at all costs.


    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #42 - January 05, 2014, 01:31 PM

    Fuck Capitalism.  Sure, it produces a lot of things that I love.. but.. [quoteit creates situations like the one were are in now. Large corporations owning anything and everything including things that are necessary for survival. There is no check on them and they run rampant because they are private institutions and can also be considered, in US law, as an individual. Which means that they are entitled to the same rights as an individual. Makes them harder persecute.

    what you wrote there  is NOT capitalism   movingfeet., Without check and balances It is Uncontrolled Corruption at its worst..

     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #43 - January 05, 2014, 01:36 PM

    Tomato, Tomato. Capitalism enables that exist. The government will not go after the corporations that were born due to capitalism because they own and fund everything. Don't get me started the retarded banks.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #44 - January 05, 2014, 01:41 PM

    movingfeet, that is a serious issue. I have been coming across more whistleblowing stuff lately by independent media about how we are entering a police state. But really, sometimes, when I look back at things like AIM, it seems we never left it.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #45 - January 05, 2014, 01:41 PM

    Tomato, Tomato. Capitalism enables that exist. The government will not go after the corporations that were born due to capitalism because they own and fund everything. Don't get me started the retarded banks.

    I don't know about that.. The definition of capitalism  was..WAS..  

    Quote
    Capitalism is a social system based on the principle of individual rights. Politically, it is the system of laissez-faire (freedom). Legally it is a system of objective laws (rule of law as opposed to rule of man). Economically, when such freedom is applied to the sphere of production its result is the free-market.


    That is how it started but Now it is politicized corruptionism through Banks..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #46 - January 05, 2014, 01:51 PM

    Right. When I talk about capitalism, I always ignore the political aspect of it because it is impossible. There will never be objective laws. That is more a philosophical issue though. As for the free market bit, that's what I was focusing on the most.

    And ya.. your last comment was why I said that all sociological theories will only work as they are written in Utopian settings. They are not practical, because of the human element that is involved to enact them. Humanity's greed and lust for power will always corrupt everything. We will always have a "ruling" class.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #47 - January 05, 2014, 02:08 PM

    Right. When I talk about capitalism, I always ignore the political aspect of it because it is impossible. There will never be objective laws. That is more a philosophical issue though. As for the free market bit, that's what I was focusing on the most.

    And ya.. your last comment was why I said that all sociological theories will only work as they are written in Utopian settings. They are not practical, because of the human element that is involved to enact them. Humanity's greed and lust for power will always corrupt everything. We will always have a "ruling" class.

    Well we know the problems with capitalism and we know the problems with communism And we know how so-called socialism can go either way for the sake of Politics.,   So movingfeet,   what alternative political/economic  system would you suggest for 21 st century with 7 billion folks.  Democracy? Communism? socialism?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #48 - January 05, 2014, 02:11 PM

    None. Let the people decide what they want by any means that they choose. I can't presume to tell people how they should live their lives and what they should do with it. It's a shame that the same courtesy is not extended to me.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #49 - January 05, 2014, 02:47 PM

    None. Let the people decide what they want by any means that they choose.

    well that is not how human society progresses.,  one has to propose, develop and test  social/political/economical concepts especially with 8 billion people in this century.
    Quote
    I can't presume to tell people how they should live their lives and what they should do with it. It's a shame that the same courtesy is not extended to me.


    No..Noo.noo. you have to speak out/shout/propose models..  we can not sit in an isolated box movingfeet

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #50 - January 05, 2014, 02:49 PM

    Ok. For the sake of hypotheticals, Anarchism.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #51 - January 05, 2014, 02:52 PM

    .......... It's a shame that the same courtesy is not extended to me. ...........

    Oops I didn't read that., .......................

    well what is life without struggles??  it is life of stone.. life of black stone..       you sound very angry...  lol..  You know I am also an angry guy took quite a bit of time to control and channel it..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #52 - January 05, 2014, 03:26 PM

    Hahaha. Yeah.. I tend to be an angry person. I channel it into getting what I need to be done. The best way to get me to do anything productive is usually either encouragement or to get me very angry.

    How do you channel yours?

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #53 - January 05, 2014, 03:46 PM

    Hahaha. Yeah.. I tend to be an angry person. I channel it into getting what I need to be done. The best way to get me to do anything productive is usually either encouragement or to get me very angry.

    Well anger might help you to be more determined but it really doesn't help you to solve the problems., it is true  encouragement will give that little push one needs to get going..

    Quote
    How do you channel yours?

     well walk  away  and walk on gross with out shoes.. read a   book or  Music does help me  ..lol..

    No I am just kidding..

    Damn that is Grass not Gross., one alphabet changes whole thing..   it is  like Quran..  Cheesy

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #54 - January 05, 2014, 04:05 PM

    lol yes...it can, indeed..language is a funny thing

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • The War on Freedom of Speech
     Reply #55 - January 16, 2014, 02:58 AM

    Quote
    Capitalism is a social system based on the principle of individual rights. Politically, it is the system of laissez-faire (freedom). Legally it is a system of objective laws (rule of law as opposed to rule of man). Economically, when such freedom is applied to the sphere of production its result is the free-market.
    That is how it started but Now it is politicized corruptionism through Banks..


    Not really, no.  There's nothing individualistic about capitalism at all.  Capitalism simply means a system where the fruits of labor are allocated to property (capital) owners.  That's why capital gains are listed as unearned income.  Hence the name "capitalist" (which was coined as a derogatory term and popularized by Karl Marx).  This is also the reason why corruption and concentration of wealth and power are inevitable in capitalism, because wealth and income were always inevitably going to go from labor to capital, thus empowering capitalist and allowing them to further monopolize and consolidate their wealth (and thus power).  Indeed it is a collectivist system, like all economic systems.  It's just a collectivist system that favors a minority of property owners, no different than feudalism.

    Ask any capitalist you can find and see if they would go on just fine without their capital earnings and just working on their own? Tongue
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