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OP - December 27, 2013, 06:29 AM

I just wanted to share this verse with you mates :

And if we had willed, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me will come into effect [that] "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and people all together.

I can't believe that I had never read this verse before. This is a clear example of "I could be more merciful, but I will still fill people and jinn with Hell. I'm still the most merciful though."
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Reply #1 - December 27, 2013, 01:15 PM

Quote from: kutta on December 27, 2013, 06:29 AM
I just wanted to share this verse with you mates :

Quote
And if we had willed, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me will come into effect [that] "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and people all together.

I can't believe that I had never read this verse before. This is a clear example of "I could be more merciful, but I will still fill people and jinn with Hell. I'm still the most merciful though."

Well Just to let the readers know, that verse comes from As-Sajda, Chapter #32, Verse #13

well did you read these?? Let me add more to the angle that kutta is looking in Islamic literature ..

"I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken." -Prophet Muhammad in Al-Tabari 6:111)

Quote
005.101 : O you who believe! do not put questions about things which if declared to you may trouble you, and if you question about them when the Quran is being revealed, they shall be declared to you; Allah pardons this, and Allah is Forgiving, Forbearing.

005.102 : A people before you indeed asked such questions, and then became disbelievers on account of them.

005.103 : It was not Allah who instituted (superstitions like those of) a slit-ear she-camel, or a she-camel let loose for free pasture, or idol sacrifices for twin-births in animals, or stallion-camels freed from work: It is blasphemers who invent a lie against Allah; but most of them lack wisdom., o

do these well educated Muslim intellectuals who lecture on Islam and Quran.. Do they read those verses and hadith ??

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Reply #2 - December 27, 2013, 01:49 PM

I quote that verse a lot. It demonstrates Allah's depravity quite well, I think. "I could be nice, but I feel like being a dick instead."
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Reply #3 - December 27, 2013, 01:51 PM

Apparently that Hadith is not Sahih. Muslim scholar say it is a lie invented to make Muhammad look bad.

edit: so referring to yeezevee. Is there any reason to think it is trustworthy? It would be kinda hard to believe anyone would follow Islam if Muhammad actually said that.

I ask many stupid questions frequently.
I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
So forgive me and answer me
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Reply #4 - December 27, 2013, 01:56 PM

I like that verse too. Put that together with 'Allah guides whom he wills and misguides whom he wills' and you have the ethical principles of the Most Merciful right there.

Allah is Most Just? Is not there a Hadith that states he condemned an old woman to hell because she mistreated a cat? Most civilised countries would issue a fine or fixed jail term, but Allah patron of the RSPCA takes no prisoners.

Then there is the Hadith in which Allah rewards a man with a place in paradise because he filled his shoe with water and gave it to the thirsty dog. A tucking shoe! I could do that! We all could.

Most Unfair, Most Arbitrary, Most Bogus

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Reply #5 - December 27, 2013, 03:07 PM

Quote from: Siunaa Maailmaa on December 27, 2013, 01:51 PM
Apparently that Hadith is not Sahih. Muslim scholar say it is a lie invented to make Muhammad look bad.

edit: so referring to yeezevee. Is there any reason to think it is trustworthy? It would be kinda hard to believe anyone would follow Islam if Muhammad actually said that.

you are asking a question that explores "THE ROOTS OF ISLAM" Siunaa Maailmaa.

Question is what is Sahih/authentic hadith and what is not and how do we or any one determines which statement is actually from Prophet of Islam and which hadith is not? Almost a billion Muslim folks are brain washed right from the age of 5 or so to believe that the collections of hadith by Abū ‘Abd Allāh Muḥammad ibn Ismā‘īl ibn Ibrāhīm ibn al-Mughīrah ibn Bardizbah al-Ju‘fī al-Bukhārī (who was born on 19 July 810 – died on September 870) that Persian guy who was born almost 175 years after the death alleged Prophet as Islamic scholar and his hadith collection known as Sahih . And for Sunni Muslims those collection of hadith is one of the most sahih (authentic) of all hadith compilations.

Look at that how long that name is.. Was he really a Persian guy? I wonder..

So What are the requirements of a “Sahih” hadith?

Quote
A connected Isnaad (chain) of narrators: Nobody narrates from their teacher's teacher, for example; everybody met in person and heard directly from the person who narrated to them.
All narrators are known, trustworthy, and righteous: They don't commit major sins in public. We know them (their biography), i.e. it's not "someone named X told me ..."

Precision and Accuracy of Narrators: All the narrators in the chain are known to have strong memories and narrate accurately.

Doesn't Conflict Quran and Known Hadith: /u] If there's one hadith that conflicts a well-known larger body of hadith, it can become rejected.

No Hidden Defects: This is a technical requirement, and refers to tadlees (subtly hiding who you are narrating the hadith from) among other things.

Now if we look at that hadith we can already see an INDIRECT connection of it in Quran itself.. And we have plenty of hadith that are allegedly sahih and they are absolute bull Shiite stuff. We can find that in Bukhari nonsense.. So I am a believer and a Mosques going allah praying guy burn the hadith on mosques steps and I just STICK TO QURAN and even that I will edit it..

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Reply #6 - December 27, 2013, 03:30 PM

The hell for a cat is outright insane . Paradise cause of the shoe filled with water for a thirsty dog is okay i guess . Its the act that matters i think rather than the actual objective . But hey allah want some people to enter hell as firewood to make him warm and comfy right ? Infinite firewood for allah with all the skin roasting and boiling again and again . yap yap most mercifull and most loving .
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Reply #7 - December 27, 2013, 05:35 PM

Yeah, that sentiment is one of the main deal-breakers for me. It ties in well with verses about people created by Allah specifically for the purpose of fuel for Hell, as well as verses about how there is no chance of apostates ever being able to repent. Since there is no free will in Islam, Allah is the architect of apostates. Presumably just to keep Hell stoked. And since the Allah character is so fucking rock-bottom dumb and batnuts crazy, not only does he create apostates but also lets them know what fate has in store for them and furthermore wants them to feel guilty about it and pretend that it isn't his fault. What kind of illogical shit is that? Allah is an infant. A stupid annoying infant that just doesn't get it.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Reply #8 - December 27, 2013, 06:11 PM

Quranic Verse:

007/179 YUSUFALI: Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).

Sahih Hadith

The following is reported from Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud (may Allah be pleased with him): Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his (i.e. the new creature's) deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him. So, a man amongst you may do (good deeds till there is only a cubit between him and Paradise and then what has been written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire. And similarly a man amongst you may do (evil) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and the (Hell) Fire, and then what has been written for him decides his behavior, and he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise." . (Bukhari)

Conclusion

Allah created every living thing.

Everything is the Will of Allah.

Allah knows who will go to Paradise/Hell Fire.

It is Allah's Will that some people will go to Paradise/Hell Fire.

This is the QADR that is the WILL of Allah that no one can avoid.

This is how apologists rebound from this great travesty.

Indeed, Allah does not do injustice, [even] as much as an atom's weight; while if there is a good deed, He multiplies it and gives from Him a great reward. (4: 40.)

My supplication

Ya Allah, I am as sincere in my kur as others may be in their emaan. I am uncovinced and unmoved by the verses, the ayats and the threats. I am as good as I can be and try not to commit wrong. I fail now and again but the failing is on account o my own personal misgivings and not based upon my kufr. Ya Allah, if you exist and decide to call me as dumb as cattle and throw me into the flames then I can't stop you. But know that, Allah, the fault is as much yours as it is mine for my kufr. The Qur'an, the Hadith and the scholars were not enough or me.

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Reply #9 - December 27, 2013, 06:43 PM

Quote from: Jedi on December 27, 2013, 06:11 PM
Quranic Verse:

Indeed, Allah does not do injustice, as much as an atom's weight; while if there is a good deed, He multiplies it and gives from Him a great reward. (4: 40.)

Jedi some rascal added those two alphabets(IN) in that verse.. delete them from that verse

This allah thingy Voodoo doll of modern Islam is different from Old Allah god of before Islam., this allah thingy didn't even do justice to Muhammad, Muhammad's only daughter Fatima and her sons. It is all injustice right from the get go, from the day this alleged prophet of Islam slept with that ABU-BAKHRA .. BKHRA's 9 year old little girl Aisha, this voodoo doll played havoc in the lives of 100s of millions of people

I think Muhammad before Khadija died was different from Muhammad of after Khadija. ., It is two different persons put together in Islam.

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #10 - December 27, 2013, 07:04 PM

The women in Muhammad's life were pivotal:

There was Muhammad before and after Fakhita (she refused to marry him twice).

There was Muhammad before and after Khadija.

Then Muhammad and his Hareem.

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Reply #11 - December 27, 2013, 07:10 PM

Quote from: Jedi on December 27, 2013, 07:04 PM
The women in Muhammad's life were pivotal:

There was Muhammad before and after Fakhita (she refused to marry him twice).

There was Muhammad before and after Khadija.

Then Muhammad and his Hareem.

well that Muhammad is NOTHING TO DO with the Quran, with hadith and with Islam., At best the guy had some fun and may have been a SODOM( sex obsessed dirty old man.,) Beyond that he was not that bad guy.. I can defend him and his actions any time and any where., if baboons of Islam don't project him as prophet of allah/god He was guy of his times..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #12 - December 27, 2013, 07:16 PM

Same here...Muhammad as a man, revolutionary, was quite remarkable.

But Muhammad, the Final Seal, the Perfect Example....nooooo!

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Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

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Reply #13 - December 27, 2013, 08:10 PM

Make sense...Misguide me and the send me to hell for being misguided

Why did I ever believe in this grab
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Reply #14 - December 27, 2013, 08:59 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on December 27, 2013, 06:43 PM

I think Muhammad before Khadija died was different from after Muhammad after Khadija. ., It is two different persons put together in Islam.

Do you mean there were actually two different human beings or do you just mean there was one Muhammad who changed really much after Khadija passed away?

I ask many stupid questions frequently.
I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
So forgive me and answer me
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Reply #15 - December 27, 2013, 09:20 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on December 27, 2013, 06:43 PM
...............I think Muhammad before Khadija died was different from Muhammad of after Khadija. ., It is two different persons put together in Islam.

Quote from: Siunaa Maailmaa on December 27, 2013, 08:59 PM
Do you mean there were actually two different human beings or do you just mean there was one Muhammad who changed really much after Khadija passed away?

That is a very good question to answer Siunaa Maailmaa., I go in and out of such assumptions. It is very much possible . In fact that idea was initially floated by Dr. Patricia Crone

but there is no concrete proof. Some time back FFI had thread on that with heading are there good things about Muhammad? In that people did consider the possibility of two different Muhammad's.

Early Islamic stories along with Quran are all fuzzy. To me It appears Muhammad of Islam is that original guy ++ along with Jesus, Moses and all other alleged prophets and and.. Arabian feudal lords that jumped in to Islam and caliphs.. Kings and to day KING FUCKING ABDULLAH OF SAND LAND It could as well be Uncle Osama under the sea bed.. .

Well not that but Islam appears to be the actions and sayings of so-called Islamic leaders until the Quran and hadith became books..

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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #16 - December 28, 2013, 12:24 AM

Allah didn't need to create Hell anyway. Just throw us all in Heaven together. It'll be a fate worse than Hell to have to spend an eternity with Hamza Jokebeard and Dawahboy, and where their infantile voodoo is actually the facts of the world.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Reply #17 - December 28, 2013, 12:54 AM

According to this http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_01.html the words 'Heaven' and 'Hell' are repeated 77 times each. One of the most repeated subjects in the Qur'an.

Obsessive.

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Reply #18 - December 28, 2013, 02:24 AM

Quote from: Ishina on December 28, 2013, 12:24 AM
Allah didn't need to create Hell anyway. Just throw us all in Heaven together. It'll be a fate worse than Hell to have to spend an eternity with Hamza Jokebeard and Dawahboy, and where their infantile voodoo is actually the facts of the world.

This is a very valid point. Such a fate would drive one mad.

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