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Theme Changer

 Topic: Help Me!

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  • Help Me!
     Reply #270 - February 15, 2014, 12:16 PM

    Yup.. It is just like body and soul. The body is an illusion, the soul a reality. It is the same with the flower and its fragrance: the flower is an illusion, but the fragrance is a reality: it stays as a spirit, it lives.

    Weird. There was me thinking the fragrance was airborne chemical molecules dispersed from a physically present flower, detected by my olfactory system. But you're saying instead that flowers don't exist and fragrance is in fact magic spirit power?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #271 - February 15, 2014, 12:36 PM


    Quote
    "The body is an illusion, the soul a reality.
     flower is an illusion, but the fragrance is a reality"

    Weird. There was me thinking the fragrance was airborne chemical molecules dispersed from a physically present flower, detected by my olfactory system. But you're saying instead that flowers don't exist and fragrance is in fact magic spirit power?

     Cheesy Cheesy

    Body real made up of molecules
    Flower real made up of molecules
    Fragrance real and that is also made up of molecules...
    but the soul ..the souls is is floating everywhere


    Well that body soul flower fragrance illusion delusion is NOTHING TO DO WITH S.A.M.   He just read or copy/pasted it  from a book.   Many of these guys read those parables that sounds good to  ears  and live their life in delusion of soul/after life/previous life... etc ..etc..

    Any ways S.A.M..  S.A.M..... common you are reading the forum  for a long time., I am under the impression by now you left your old comfy nest and live the life in reality.. but..but may  be I am wrong....
    Yup.. It is just like body and soul. The body is an illusion, the soul a reality. It is the same with the flower and its fragrance: the flower is an illusion, but the fragrance is a reality: it stays as a spirit, it lives.

    S.A.M  .. don't go crazy.  let us leave those illusions, delusions  and stories of the past as stories.

    "The body is an illusion, the soul a reality.
     flower is an illusion, but the fragrance is a reality"


    did you read/get that from Inayat Khan (1882–1927)?

    read more from him..

    Quote
    There is one God; the Eternal, the Only Being; None exists save He.

    There is one master; the guiding spirit of all souls that constantly leads all followers toward the light.

    There is one holy book; the sacred manuscript of nature, the only Scripture that can enlighten the reader.

    There is one religion; unswerving progress in the right direction toward the Ideal, which fulfills every soul's life purpose.

    There is one law; the law of reciprocity, which can be observed by a selfless conscience, together with a sense of awakened justice.

    There is one brotherhood; the human brotherhood which unites the children of earth indiscriminately in the fatherhood of God. This was later adapted by followers to; "There is one Family, the Human Family, which unites the Children of Earth indiscriminately in the Parenthood of God."

    There is one moral; the love which springs forth from self-denial and blooms in deeds of beneficence. ... (later alternative; "which springs forth from a willing heart, surrendered in service to God and Humanity, and which blooms in deeds of beneficence").

    There is one object of praise; the beauty which uplifts the heart of its worshipper through all aspects from the seen to the unseen.

    There is one truth; true knowledge of our being, within and without, which is the essence of Wisdom.

    There is one path; annihilation of the false ego in the real (later alternative; "the effacement of the limited self in the Unlimited"), which raises the mortal to immortality, in which resides all perfection


    And here is a book for you https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/works/Complete_works_HIK1924_c.pdf

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Help Me!
     Reply #272 - February 15, 2014, 02:29 PM

    Hi S.A.M. I would suggest that reality is everything that follows the laws of science. The laws of science are statements that describe, predict, and explain why, a range of phenomena behave as they appear to in nature. These laws fall into many natural scientific disciplines (e.g. physics, chemistry, biology, geology, astronomy etc.).

    Scientific laws can usually be formulated mathematically as one or several statements or equation, or at least stated in a single sentence, so that it can be used to predict the outcome of an experiment, given the initial, boundary, and other physical conditions of the processes which take place.

    Religions have ridiculed scientific theories for centuries until the theory becomes a fact. A Religion will then try and interpret their religious text to support the new scientific discovery. It's the way it always has been and always will be.

    Considering the Quran has been studied for over 1350 years, do you not think it's unusual that the billions of Muslims who have spent trillions of hours trying to interpret it, need Science to make the discovery first?

    For example, in 2010 more evidence was discovered that supported the Big Bang Theory. This article shows that firing proton particles at each other at almost the speed of light creates powerful but microscopic bursts of energy mimicking conditions of the Big Bang that created the universe

    http://m.phys.org/_news189152837.html

    No Islamic Theologian described anything like the 'Big Bang Theory' before it was theorised. Even after the theory was first thought of in 1912, religious theologians mocked the theory as it went against the Bible and the Quran. However, now that more and more evidence supports this theory, the propaganda Islamists are starting to claim that the Quran supports the Big Bang theory which is a complete lie. 

    Religious theologians are also quick to mention any scientific discoveries or theories if they think it supports their religious text. However, that can lead to more problems and back fire. An example of this is the 'God particle':

    In the Standard Model of particle physics, the fundamental forces of nature known to science arise from laws of nature called symmetries, and are transmitted by particles known as gauge bosons. The weak force's symmetry should cause its gauge bosons to have zero mass, but experiments show that the weak force's gauge bosons are actually very massive and short-ranging. Their very short range – a result of their mass – makes structures like atoms and stars possible, but it proved exceedingly difficult to find any way to explain their unexpected mass. Religious leaders jumped on this by explaining that because science can't explain it, then God must have done it.

    However by the early 1960s, physicists had realised that a given symmetry law might not always be followed (or 'obeyed') under certain conditions. The Higgs mechanism is a mathematical model devised in 1964 that explains why and how gauge bosons could still be massive despite their governing symmetry. It showed that the conditions for the symmetry would be 'broken' if an unusual type of field happened to exist throughout space, and then the particles would be able to have mass.

    This was only a theory of course and religious people have continued to call this the 'God Particle' in the mean time. However in 2012 scientists found real evidence of the Higgs boson (now previously known as the God Particle).

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/07/05/science/cern-physicists-may-have-discovered-higgs-boson-particle.html?pagewanted=all

    Since then more experiments have been carried out at the particle accelerator that greatly support the presence of the Higgs boson.

    Do you not find it strange that everything we have seen and see in the Universe is exactly as it should be when taking into account all the scientific laws?

    There are no supernatural forces at work so why do you feel the need to believe in a mythical supernatural entity that mustn't confirm to any of the scientific laws?

    How can you believe that an  omnipotent, omniscient God which is infinitely complex, just happened first and by chance? Do you really think that is more probable than the Bing Bang Theory or do you think God was created first and then it started the Big Bang?

    Apologies for all the questions, I'm genuinely trying to understand the thought processes of religious people.

    One last question, why does Allah demand you believe in it (disbelief in Allah is a worse sin than murder) when it has given no evidence to its existence? In fact it purposely gives evidence after evidence after evidence to its non existence but still expects you to believe in it. You will say it's because it's testing us but how cruel, unfair and just ridiculous is that.

    Allah purposely gives us brains that are inquisitive and brains that naturally absorb evidence to help us make decisions. Yet it wants us to do the opposite of what our brains are designed to do and believe nonsensical and outdated superstitious old wives tales rather than scientific facts.

    It seems that Allah punishes those  with scientific minds, an example of this is if all atheists left the USA, it would loose 93% of the National Academy of Sciences (less than 1% of the prison population incidentally).

    So Allah sends all these educated scientists to hell even though they've contributed far more to society than most Quranic theologians. Allah decides to send people who act like zombies to paradise because they believe all religious text without questioning any of it (I'm not suggesting you're like a zombie because I think you do question it but many religious people don't).

    I also think I can disprove the existence of hell but I'll leave that for another time Smiley ha.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #273 - February 15, 2014, 02:53 PM

    Quote
    Do you not find it strange that everything we have seen and see in the Universe is exactly as it should be when taking into account all the scientific laws?

    There are no supernatural forces at work so why do you feel the need to believe in a mythical supernatural entity that mustn't confirm to any of the scientific laws?

    How can you believe that an  omnipotent, omniscient God which is infinitely complex, just happened first and by chance? Do you really think that is more probable than the Bing Bang Theory or do you think God was created first and then it started the Big Bang?


     Tell me more.... what is a SOURCE of information Big Bang?

    Einstein said: “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #274 - February 15, 2014, 03:00 PM

    Tell me more.... what is a SOURCE of information Big Bang?

    Einstein said: “There are two things that are infinite; the universe and human stupidity.?

     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    S.A.M  more important   question is why Albert Einstein said that ?  whom he had in his mind when he said that?  and what was the event/ reason for him to say that?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Help Me!
     Reply #275 - February 15, 2014, 03:33 PM

    S.A.M, the Quran isn't very hard to disprove it is filled with error. One only needs to look to a few verse directly contradicting established scientific concepts.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #276 - February 15, 2014, 04:24 PM

    S.A.M. You didn't answer any of my questions and bizarrely mentioned a quote from Einstein where he's likeky to be mocking the validity of a supernatural God and those who believe in it. Einstein was not a religious man and he believed in the Big Bang Theory so you're counteracting your own argument.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #277 - February 15, 2014, 04:40 PM


    Do you not find it strange that everything we have seen and see in the Universe is exactly as it should be when taking into account all the scientific laws?

    I don't fully know yet.

    Quote
    There are no supernatural forces at work so why do you feel the need to believe in a mythical supernatural entity that mustn't confirm to any of the scientific laws?

    How can you believe that an  omnipotent, omniscient God which is infinitely complex, just happened first and by chance? Do you really think that is more probable than the Bing Bang Theory or do you think God was created first and then it started the Big Bang?

    Allah created when nothing existed. The One who creates something from nothing. The One who brings things into existence from a state of non-existence. Supreme Being existed before the creation. We are actually nothing


    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #278 - February 15, 2014, 04:45 PM

    No...Quran complete words of Allah

    How do you know that? What evidence do you have that rules out the theory that humans authored/originated the Quran?
  • Help Me!
     Reply #279 - February 15, 2014, 04:46 PM

    What your foundation of reality based?

    What do you mean "what [is] your foundation"?
  • Help Me!
     Reply #280 - February 15, 2014, 04:47 PM

    What if reality as you know it is nothing more than an illusion?

    Do you mean, what if you S.A.M, and everybody else I'm currently talking to on this site are figments of my imagination?
  • Help Me!
     Reply #281 - February 15, 2014, 04:49 PM

    So, it is reality to you?

    What do you mean "to you"?

    Reality is independent of how any single individual perceives it.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #282 - February 15, 2014, 04:53 PM

    Also the sources of the Big Bang Theory are 1000's of journals and 100's of books written by some of the most intelligent human beings to ever exist. If you think a source is better coming from someone who probably suffered from frontal lobe epilepsy around 1400 years ago then that's your choice but I'd rather be realistic and use common sense.

    In reply to your last comment, if Allah created the Universe, who or what created Allah?

    Also why did Allah have to create such a huge explosion that took billions of years to allow life instead of just making the Universe as it is?
  • Help Me!
     Reply #283 - February 15, 2014, 04:54 PM

    Yup.. It is just like body and soul. The body is an illusion, the soul a reality.

    Wait. Why do you believe in the idea of a soul? Just because the Quran says so?

    I have some unanswered questions about the soul, and without answers to these questions, then I'm not persuaded that there is such a thing as a soul.

    And if *you* also don't have answers to the questions, while still believing that the soul exists, then that raises another question: Why do you believe something for which you have unanswered questions?

    What organ is responsible for the soul?

    How can the soul exist beyond death without having a source of energy? [Note that the body must consume energy in order to live. This is a fact of reality. And everything else needs to consume energy in order to function also. Machines needs energy in order to work. Stars needs energy in order to continue shinning. So what source of energy does the soul have? If you don't have an answer to this question, then your soul idea contradicts what we know about reality, namely what we know about thermodynamics.]

    It is the same with the flower and its fragrance: the flower is an illusion, but the fragrance is a reality: it stays as a spirit, it lives.

    That's false. Fragrance IS NOT like the idea of a soul.

    Fragrance is reality, in the sense that there are molecules in the air that reach a person's olfactory sensory cells, and those sensory cells cause the neurons connected to them to fire, and that results in other stuff happening in the brain such that the person becomes aware of the fragrance.

    The soul has no such reality. There is no explanation about what it is physically. It's purely imaginary with no connection to reality.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #284 - February 15, 2014, 05:02 PM

    I don't fully know yet.
    Allah created when nothing existed. The One who creates something from nothing. The One who brings things into existence from a state of non-existence. Supreme Being existed before the creation. We are actually nothing

    How do you know that Allah exists and did that?
  • Help Me!
     Reply #285 - February 15, 2014, 05:05 PM

    S.A.M. You didn't answer any of my questions and bizarrely mentioned a quote from Einstein where he's likeky to be mocking the validity of a supernatural God and those who believe in it. Einstein was not a religious man and he believed in the Big Bang Theory so you're counteracting your own argument.

    According my studying of Islamic mysticism...

    I would once again like to say that without Space Earth there is no the existence of Universe,Earth,Galaxy,Sun, Moon, Stars and the Planets etc. In other word God created all things because of EARTH. Without EARTH Supreme Being (God) have no place to stay or to be found.

    I believe the Dual aspect (two forces) cause Big Bang. In other word it is this mystery that lies hidden under the dual aspect of all phases and forms of life and the reason, cause, and significance of all life is found in rhythm.

    Before Big Bang there is dual aspect, before dual aspect there must be something and the list goes on...


    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #286 - February 15, 2014, 05:14 PM

    According my studying of Islamic mysticism...

    I would once again like to say that without Earth there is no the existence of Universe,Space,Galaxy,Sun, Moon, Stars and the Planets etc. In other word God created all things because of EARTH. Without EARTH Supreme Being (God) have no place to stay or to be found.

    S.A.M Stop studying  Islamic mysticism...  and watch these tubes..  .....STOP IT..


    Cosmic Journeys : How Large is the Universe?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnhken4_-A0

    Quote
    I believe the Dual aspect (two forces) cause Big Bang. In other word it is this mystery that lies hidden under the dual aspect of all phases and forms of life and the reason, cause, and significance of all life is found in rhythm.

    Before Big Bang there is dual aspect, before dual aspect there must be something and the list goes on...


     And stop believing in nonsense S.A.M.  Off course you can speak nonsense, listen to nonsense and argue with nonsense ..But..no..no Don't believe in nonsense.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Help Me!
     Reply #287 - February 15, 2014, 05:20 PM

    Also the sources of the Big Bang Theory are 1000's of journals and 100's of books written by some of the most intelligent human beings to ever exist. If you think a source is better coming from someone who probably suffered from frontal lobe epilepsy around 1400 years ago then that's your choice but I'd rather be realistic and use common sense.

    In reply to your last comment, if Allah created the Universe, who or what created Allah?

    Also why did Allah have to create such a huge explosion that took billions of years to allow life instead of just making the Universe as it is?

    Jalaluddin Rumi says, 'Earth, water, fire, and air seem dead things to men, but to the seer they seem living beings, waiting every moment to carry out the command of their Lord, the God of the Universe.'

    (Mathnawi I, 838) And Rumi explains more plainly: 'Air, earth, water and fire are God's servants; to us they seem lifeless, but to God living.'

    The conception of those four elements, which the mystics have always had, cannot be explained in scientific terms, because the mystics have their own peculiar meaning. Although the elements may be called earth (dust), water (liquidity), fire (heat or radiance) and air, this must not be taken literally. Their nature and character, according to the mystics, are different. The universe is greater than the world. Our mouth is too small to compare great ones. I guess we are not entitled to fix them as so and so, saying that there are bla..bla..bla….

    No one knows how do God of Abraham exist

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #288 - February 15, 2014, 05:25 PM

    S.A.M Stop studying  Islamic mysticism...  and watch these tubes..  .....STOP IT..


    Cosmic Journeys : How Large is the Universe?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnhken4_-A0
     And stop believing in nonsense S.A.M.  Off course you can speak nonsense, listen to nonsense and argue with nonsense ..But..no..no Don't believe in nonsense.

    I put you on ignore list for awhile... dance

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #289 - February 15, 2014, 05:27 PM

    S.A.M.

    Instead of uncritically commenting on posts, why don't you answer the questions that have been asked about your position?
  • Help Me!
     Reply #290 - February 15, 2014, 05:29 PM

    S.A.M. how can the universe not exist without Earth when the Universe is over 9 billion years older than Earth? That doesn't make sense :/.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #291 - February 15, 2014, 05:31 PM

    I put you on ignore list for awhile... dance

     Cheesy Cheesy  Tell me something new S.A.M., You are doing that for the past 6 or 7 years  And  that is not new to me ,  see this list from my profile
    Quote
    These are the members currently ignoring you
    blossom76, yeezevee, idolator, Alecto, S.A.M, Boo, Mujahideen, TheDarkRebel, fish


    big deal.. I ignore myself S. A.M.  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Help Me!
     Reply #292 - February 15, 2014, 05:32 PM

    S.A.M. how can the universe not exist without Earth when the Universe is over 9 billion years older than Earth? That doesn't make sense :/.

    Because fuck science. That's why.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #293 - February 15, 2014, 05:43 PM

    Not to mention the vast majority of the material of Earth are heavier elements formed after nuclear fusion within stars. S.A.M. argument makes almost less sense than Christian genesis (where light was created before stars, plants were created before allowing stars to emit light to Earth, more bullshit) which is an achievement by itself.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #294 - February 15, 2014, 05:43 PM

    S.A.M. how can the universe not exist without Earth when the Universe is over 9 billion years older than Earth? That doesn't make sense :/.

    Sorry Craig..a bit mistake..

    .....without Earth there is no the existence of Universe,Space,Galaxy,Sun, Moon, Stars and the Planets etc.

     without Space there is no the existence of Universe, Earth,,Galaxy,Sun, Moon, Stars and the Planets etc...

    What I mean Earth was created first before,Galaxy,Sun, Moon, Stars and the Planets etc. was created..

    My studying of Islamic mysticism might have been wrong, so I apologize for that.. At least I have my own ideas and my own words about creation of the Universe.

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #295 - February 15, 2014, 05:52 PM

    ^
    See above. All the heavier elements (like many found on Earth) did not exist in the early Universe having formed from nucleosynthesis after very large stars explode.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #296 - February 15, 2014, 05:58 PM

    I agree Descent and S.A.M. There are billions of galaxies and trillions of planets older than than our galaxy and planet Earth so I do find your views rather unorthodox. I've spoken to many Muslims who have very different views to you. May I ask if you class yourself as a true Muslim and if so what sect? Hope I'm not being too nosey, just genuinely interested.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #297 - February 15, 2014, 06:04 PM

    ............ May I ask if you class yourself as a true Muslim and if so what sect? Hope I'm not being too nosey, just genuinely interested.

     S.A.M.   stands for   Sufi Annoying Momin.. 

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Help Me!
     Reply #298 - February 15, 2014, 06:06 PM

    At least I have my own ideas and my own words about creation of the Universe.

    That's not really a point in your favour when those words and ideas happen to be quite silly and demonstrably wrong.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #299 - February 15, 2014, 06:19 PM

    My studying of Islamic mysticism might have been wrong, so I apologize for that.. At least I have my own ideas and my own words about creation of the Universe.


    s.a.m. just a note for the future....you do not need to capitalise, bold, underline or change the font of your statement regarding 'Islamic mysticism'....plenty of us can see BULLSHIT when we see it.

    S.A.M.   stands for   Sufi Annoying Momin.. 


    Nahi bhai woh ek Silly Annoying Momin hai. Qoi Sufi achai log hai aur iski tera pagal bhatein nahi kartein. Woh to straight forward log hotai hai..

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
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