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 Topic: UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?

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  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     OP - February 05, 2014, 12:10 AM
    UK Independence Party.........  UKIP    interesting 3rd party in UK?

    Quote
    The UK Independence Party (UKIP, Ukip, /ˈjuːkɪp/) is a Eurosceptic[7][8] right-wing populist[9] political party in the United Kingdom, founded in 1993. The party describes itself in its constitution as a "democratic, libertarian party"[10] and, in July 2013, has a claimed membership of 30,000.[11]

    In September 2013, UKIP held 9 of the UK's 73 seats in the European Parliament, three members in the House of Lords and one seat in the Northern Ireland Assembly,[12][13] though it has never won a seat in the House of Commons. The UKIP performance in the 2013 local election was the "biggest surge for a fourth party" in British politics since the Second World War,[14] coming fourth in the number of council seats won and third in projected nationwide vote share.[15][16]

    Nigel Farage is the leader of UKIP after being re-elected on 5 November 2010,[17] having previously been leader from 2006 to 2009. Farage is a founding member of the party[18] (from its formation as the Anti-Federalist League in 1991) and has been a UKIP Member of the European Parliament (MEP) since 1999

      that is from wiki..



    Anyways  that guy you see here  apparently a  a prominent member   of that party  And you can read about him at this link  http://www.dawn.com/news/1084916/ukips-mujeeb-ur-rehman-bhutto-was-kidnap-kingpin-in-pakistan..

    What a name.....Mujeeb ur Rehman Bhutto ................Mujeeb ur Rehman Bhutto ................
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #1 - February 05, 2014, 01:09 AM
    The UKIP proves the US doesn't have the monopoly on retarded right wing populist movements.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #2 - February 06, 2014, 12:09 AM
    I'm no UKIP supporter, but what makes UKIP, in your opinion, makes them right wing?
    Why do you use these out of date terms?

    Arthur.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #3 - February 06, 2014, 12:20 AM
    What term do you prefer?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #4 - February 06, 2014, 12:29 AM
    Middle of the road perhaps, I don't believe that any of our main stream political parties are "right wing", think about it, welfare, NHS, state schools, social housing,  all these things are left, if you think that way. Especially if you compare it to American politics.

    Arthur.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #5 - February 06, 2014, 12:44 AM
    Who says "right wing" is out of date?  Furthermore, I call them right wing populist because they're populist who seek to defend their traditional culture and welfare state from immigrants and outsiders, like the rest of the right wing populist in Europe.  Defending social benefits is not automatically a "left wing" thing in a European context.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #6 - February 06, 2014, 01:00 AM
    So, what is wrong with defending your culture, afterall it is that very culture that makes this a great place to live.

    Defending social benefits is very much left in a world context.

    Arthur.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #7 - February 06, 2014, 01:06 AM
    "Defense of culture" is an excuse to oppress others, but I wasn't putting a value judgment on it.  That stance is categorized as a right wing stance.

    No it isn't.  A welfare state isn't left wing, it's just American politics is so far to the right even a welfare state, designed to save capitalism from itself, is left-wing.  The right wing populist of Europe are just conservative defenders of the welfare state.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #8 - February 06, 2014, 02:18 AM
    I'm not really bothered if they are right or left. They are anti-same sex marriage and climate change deniers, which puts them firmly in the "dumbfuck loonies" camp.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #9 - February 06, 2014, 02:24 AM
    Those are also right wing stances Tongue
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #10 - February 06, 2014, 06:13 PM
    Quote from: EzraJT on February 06, 2014, 01:06 AM
    "Defense of culture" is an excuse to oppress others, but I wasn't putting a value judgment on it.  That stance is categorized as a right wing stance.

    No it isn't.  A welfare state isn't left wing, it's just American politics is so far to the right even a welfare state, designed to save capitalism from itself, is left-wing.  The right wing populist of Europe are just conservative defenders of the welfare state.


    I disagree, preserving our culture has nothing to do with oppression. In fact it's the opposite, it's preserving free speech, democracy and all of the other things that our culture has produced.

    Arthur.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #11 - February 06, 2014, 06:18 PM
    Free speech, democracy and whatnot are things worth defending, but it's part of the culture, not the whole thing. I'm glad our culture has changed from witch finder generals to tolerance. I'm glad that it's changed so gays can get married and live freely and will full rights. I'm glad people with mental health issues and/or disabilities are no longer thrown into asylums. I'm glad I live in an age where our culture has changed in the way it has.

    There are many things I believe are worth defending. Fighting for a culture that never changes in any way shape or form isn't one of them. Societies evolve. It's not always a bad thing mate.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #12 - February 06, 2014, 06:37 PM
    Quote from: arthur1 on February 06, 2014, 06:13 PM
    I disagree, preserving our culture has nothing to do with oppression. In fact it's the opposite, it's preserving free speech, democracy and all of the other things that our culture has produced.


    You can't preserve culture completely- it's impossible. It's such a widely encompassing thing, it doesn't stay static over time & is not immune to assimilation/influence from other cultures. A lot of what you could class as traditional, white Brits love a good curry to the point it has become part of UK culture. Would you also aim to throw that out to preserve or promote to a greater extent pie and mash, jellied eels, fish and chips?
    I don't know too much about UKIP but they come across as quite xenophobic from what I have seen of them.
    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #13 - February 06, 2014, 07:04 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on February 06, 2014, 06:18 PM
    Free speech, democracy and whatnot are things worth defending, but it's part of the culture, not the whole thing. I'm glad our culture has changed from witch finder generals to tolerance. I'm glad that it's changed so gays can get married and live freely and will full rights. I'm glad people with mental health issues and/or disabilities are no longer thrown into asylums. I'm glad I live in an age where our culture has changed in the way it has.

    There are many things I believe are worth defending. Fighting for a culture that never changes in any way shape or form isn't one of them. Societies evolve. It's not always a bad thing mate.


    Of course cultures evolve as ours has and I agree with your post, our culture has never been set in stone.

    Arthur.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #14 - February 06, 2014, 07:15 PM
    Quote from: Homo Sapien on February 06, 2014, 06:37 PM
    You can't preserve culture completely- it's impossible. It's such a widely encompassing thing, it doesn't stay static over time & is not immune to assimilation/influence from other cultures. A lot of what you could class as traditional, white Brits love a good curry to the point it has become part of UK culture. Would you also aim to throw that out to preserve or promote to a greater extent pie and mash, jellied eels, fish and chips?
    I don't know too much about UKIP but they come across as quite xenophobic from what I have seen of them.


    I'm not a supporter of UKIP and I'm not denying that over time cultures evolve, but there are things that should be preserved and changes need to come slowly. Not over night.

    I don't like that word xenophobic because it is usually applied to shut down debate. I'm not saying that you are using it like that but others do.

    Arthur.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #15 - February 06, 2014, 07:18 PM
    Arthur, I don't like certain kinds of people. I don't like hate preachers. I don't like homophobes. I don't like islamists trying to force their views on others, like with the enforced gender segregation last year. I don't like jihadi wannabes who scream about how evil we are while enjoying all the benefits of a free liberal society. However, I do support their right to be bigoted loud-mouthed little cunts, because that's part of a free country. Just as I wouldn't take away their rights to air their views, I won't let anyone take away my right to oppose them.

    I don't care that our culture will change. What I do care about is that it changes for the better.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #16 - February 06, 2014, 08:28 PM
    Quote from: arthur1 on February 06, 2014, 07:15 PM
    I'm not a supporter of UKIP and I'm not denying that over time cultures evolve, but there are things that should be preserved and changes need to come slowly. Not over night.

    I don't like that word xenophobic because it is usually applied to shut down debate. I'm not saying that you are using it like that but others do.

    Arthur.


    Changes do often come slowly. They aren't overnight as far as I see it. I'm curious- what do you feel has changed overnight or too quickly?
    It works the other way too though- assimilation or integration of minorities/cultures into the majority culture/language/customs/norms takes time. I often hear very bigoted people demand that immigrants integrate and complain when they don't.  I've got news for you- in the same way that you desire slow external cultural change/influence you should also equally expect the same slow cultural assimilation/integration from immigrants . Immigrants can't just flick a switch and stop being who they are and forget their ancestry and cultural heritage- whether you  or anyone else likes it those influences which are a part of them dilute slowly over time but often never completely.

    True-it sometimes can and has been used to stifle discussion about immigration concerns but it should be a sensitively handled area of discussion. I think immigration concerns are hyped up or exaggerated by Mr. Farage.
    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #17 - February 06, 2014, 08:37 PM
    Quote from: arthur1 on February 06, 2014, 07:15 PM
    I don't like that word xenophobic because it is usually applied to shut down debate.

    Or to shut down xenophobia.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #18 - February 06, 2014, 11:24 PM
    The users above have already said most of what I'd say, but I'll add that "culture" in the sense contained to a single ethnicity and geographic region is no more tribalistic than Islamism.  I don't identify with any nationhood or ethnic/religious identity, and they're in the end just excuses to oppress outsiders, immigrants, and outliers.  Also, I wouldn't say England, or the US or the West in general is some great example of defenders of freedom of speech.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #19 - February 07, 2014, 01:18 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on February 06, 2014, 07:18 PM
    Arthur, I don't like certain kinds of people. I don't like hate preachers. I don't like homophobes. I don't like islamists trying to force their views on others, like with the enforced gender segregation last year. I don't like jihadi wannabes who scream about how evil we are while enjoying all the benefits of a free liberal society. However, I do support their right to be bigoted loud-mouthed little cunts, because that's part of a free country. Just as I wouldn't take away their rights to air their views, I won't let anyone take away my right to oppose them.

    I don't care that our culture will change. What I do care about is that it changes for the better.


    I too do not like Islamists, as most here well know, if it was just about them expressing their views then fine, but they don't just express their views, they enforce them, there was, once upon a time about 15 gay pubs in Tower Hamlets, now there are none, gays have been beaten, one is in a wheel chair for the rest of his life and they have effectively been cleansed from Tower Hamlets.
    This is going on in many parts of the UK.

    FGM is not some one expressing an opinion, it is the abuse of children and must end, despite being against the law since 1985 there is not one single  prosecution, why is that?

    Halal and Kosher slaughter is also not some one expressing an opinion, it's cruelty and it's against what our culture says regarding animal welfare.
    Every single animal welfare, animal keeper groups and animal right groups voted against religious groups being exempt from stunning laws, yet somehow we were ignored by DEFRA and Ben Bradshaw, why?

    Arthur.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #20 - February 07, 2014, 02:14 AM
    Quote from: arthur1 on February 07, 2014, 01:18 AM
    I too do not like Islamists, as most here well know, if it was just about them expressing their views then fine, but they don't just express their views, they enforce them, there was, once upon a time about 15 gay pubs in Tower Hamlets, now there are none, gays have been beaten, one is in a wheel chair for the rest of his life and they have effectively been cleansed from Tower Hamlets.
    This is going on in many parts of the UK.


    If this is true (have to admit I'm oblivious to it) then it's outright discrimination and not only violence but violent hate crimes and should not be tolerated. It's a matter for the police and MPs. Get in touch, and if need be pressure them. It's simple enough to set up.

    Quote from: arthur1 on February 07, 2014, 01:18 AM
    FGM is not some one expressing an opinion, it is the abuse of children and must end, despite being against the law since 1985 there is not one single  prosecution, why is that?


    There are people, muslim and non muslim who are working to expose this. I:t needs to be dragged,kicking and screaming if need be, into the light of day. The fact of the matter is most people wouldn't think of it. It just does't enter ost peoples heads that mutilating your daughters would be a widespread thing, and the fact it is so widespread is a problem. I'd encourage you to sign and share this.

    https://www.change.org/petitions/educationgovuk-tell-schools-to-teach-risks-of-female-genital-mutilation-before-the-summer-endfgm?alert_id=iAYOSDvFne_jbOXetiJMT&utm_campaign=47885&utm_medium=email&utm_source=action_alert

    Quote from: arthur1 on February 07, 2014, 01:18 AM
    Halal and Kosher slaughter is also not some one expressing an opinion, it's cruelty and it's against what our culture says regarding animal welfare.
    Every single animal welfare, animal keeper groups and animal right groups voted against religious groups being exempt from stunning laws, yet somehow we were ignored by DEFRA and Ben Bradshaw, why?

    Arthur.


    Because religion gets a pass. It just does. I don't like it, and I would never buy halal/kosher food because I think it's needlessly cruel. I don't even buy eggs unless they're free range. I do care how my food was treated. I'm choosy who I give my money to.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #21 - February 07, 2014, 02:26 AM
    Gay bashing is an American tradition, at least according to a lot of Americans.  So is a lot of heinous shit.  For everything Muslims do, I can find someone else doing the same thing.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #22 - February 07, 2014, 12:37 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on February 07, 2014, 02:14 AM
    If this is true (have to admit I'm oblivious to it) then it's outright discrimination and not only violence but violent hate crimes and should not be tolerated. It's a matter for the police and MPs. Get in touch, and if need be pressure them. It's simple enough to set up.

    There are people, muslim and non muslim who are working to expose this. I:t needs to be dragged,kicking and screaming if need be, into the light of day. The fact of the matter is most people wouldn't think of it. It just does't enter ost peoples heads that mutilating your daughters would be a widespread thing, and the fact it is so widespread is a problem. I'd encourage you to sign and share this.

    https://www.change.org/petitions/educationgovuk-tell-schools-to-teach-risks-of-female-genital-mutilation-before-the-summer-endfgm?alert_id=iAYOSDvFne_jbOXetiJMT&utm_campaign=47885&utm_medium=email&utm_source=action_alert

    Because religion gets a pass. It just does. I don't like it, and I would never buy halal/kosher food because I think it's needlessly cruel. I don't even buy eggs unless they're free range. I do care how my food was treated. I'm choosy who I give my money to.


    I grow a lot of my own food and collect mushrooms in the autumn and lots of stuff can be dried or preserved for winter use.
    I don't trust supermarkets or their labels.

    Arthur.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #23 - February 07, 2014, 04:05 PM
    worth a read.
    http://www.newindianexpress.com/opinion/Threats-to-Britains-Open-Society/2014/02/05/article2038028.ece#.UvTpRq7VTc9

    Arthur.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #24 - February 07, 2014, 04:10 PM
    Quote from: arthur1 on February 07, 2014, 04:05 PM
    worth a read.
    http://www.newindianexpress.com/opinion/Threats-to-Britains-Open-Society/2014/02/05/article2038028.ece#.UvTpRq7VTc9

    Arthur.

    Arthur  let me tell you a secret .. Indians living in AMRICA don't like Pakistan and Pakistan Muslims living anywhere on this globe..  read the link..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #25 - February 07, 2014, 04:59 PM
    I read the link and can't see anything that worries me.

    Arthur.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #26 - February 07, 2014, 06:52 PM
    Always be weary of those who constantly label entire groups "threats to society".
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #27 - February 08, 2014, 02:24 PM
    Quote from: EzraJT on February 07, 2014, 06:52 PM
    Always be weary of those who constantly label entire groups "threats to society".


    Very true and always be wary of people/groups/organizations that see, promote and express ONLY negative aspects of entire groups.

    "The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) is a not for profit press monitoring organization with headquarters in Washington, DC. MEMRI publishes and distributes free English language translations of Arabic, Persian, Urdu, Pashto, and Turkish media reports.[1] The institute was co-founded in 1998 by Yigal Carmon, a former Israeli military intelligence officer and Meyrav Wurmser, an Israeli-born, American political scientist. MEMRI states that its goal is to "bridge the language gap that exists between the Middle East and the West." Critics charge that it aims to portray the Arab and Muslim world in a negative light, through the production and dissemination of inaccurate translations and by selectively translating views of extremists while deemphasizing or ignoring mainstream opinions."
    When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish.
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #28 - February 08, 2014, 04:06 PM
    What I've seen from MEMRI on youtube, is mainly Muslim clerics and mullahs saying crazy shit. Sometimes even out of context. Remember when Munajjid was accused of believing Mickkey Mouse was real saying that he should be killed.  Cheesy
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • UK Independence Party......... UKIP interesting 3rd party in UK?
     Reply #29 - February 08, 2014, 07:14 PM
    So did that cleric actually say Mickey Mouse must die?
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